"Judge" owners I need your thoughts..

[gbran]

Dad has a Judge. We did some short range patterning with it. This was before special loads were available. I seem to remember my conclusion was much past 20-25 feet it wasn't very effective from a pattern standpoint. Can't speak to stopping power, which I'd guess isn't as much as some would like to think.

I do believe getting shot with say, # 4-6 shot, would be extremely painful and give you better distance and delivery than pepper spray. I can't someone taking multiple shots and continuing their aggression.

I think the Judge might be a good indoor alternative depending on circumstances. I'd not carry one outside the home.

 

[Steel Talon]

Thanks for the responces brothers. Please reply them coming.

I believe the smaller lighter models is what I"m interested in. Use primarily will be walking the dog,neighborhood walks,park walks. Basically outdoor leisure.


CQB (if needed) would be close and I supect a 410 slug/buck would be ideal. Effective stopping power with minimal over penetration and less than lethal down range flyers.

 

[TruthTellers]

Thanks for the responces brothers. Please reply them coming.

I believe the smaller lighter models is what I"m interested in. Use primarily will be walking the dog,neighborhood walks,park walks. Basically outdoor leisure.


CQB (if needed) would be close and I supect a 410 slug/buck would be ideal. Effective stopping power with minimal over penetration and less than lethal down range flyers.

If that's the intended purpose, then the only way to go is the Public Defender models.



The one on top is the Defender, the one on bottom is the regular Judge. There are a couple different versions of the PD's: there's a polymer frame model that weighs 23 oz and a steel frame a few ounces more. All models have a 2" barrel.

You seem to be set on a .410 handgun, have you looked at the Bond Arms derringers? They come in barrel lengths from 2.5" to 4.25" are very light and they are easy to carry.

 

[alexander45]

The piss all velocity and light weight of the pellets from the little revolver barrels puts the 410 revolvers in the same bin as the slap chop, ginsu knife and rip ammo the multipurpose minced dices and shaves your head all at once garbage bin

 

[ST1959]

Spend the extra money and get a Smith Governor instead. Much better quality than the Judge. I had a Gov' for a few months ... found it too big for EDC, so I sold it. But it's a well-built cannon. I did look at the Judge and found it to be inferior to the Smith. Your mileage may vary.

 

[JShirley]

For MY purposes, a Judge with 3" magnum 000 buckshot works very, very well. Stopping power is increased due to the greater number of projectiles

So, you're claiming its buckshot performance is "devastating" without offering any proof. How do you know it works very, very well? I'm asking for any type of evidence, and so far, you're offering unsubstantiated opinion.

"I like it."
"It feels good."
"I control it well."
All of these are your opinion, and need no proof or justification. On the other hand, if you claim performance of a round is "devastating" or it "works very, very well", some evidence is in order.

So...about that evidence...?

John

 

[RealGun]

"Judge" owners I need your thoughts..

Seems like he wasn't asking those who always bully this topic and are never going to respect the guns.

 

[JShirley]

If you'd paid attention, you'd have seen I have shot one of the Judges because of my interest. That experience leads me to believe revolving carbines are potentially dangerous to the user, and I gave that experience.

What I am asking, is for something expressed as fact to have any sort of evidence to back it up. That is no more than I expect for any subject, but maybe evidence is too much to ask for regarding shotgun revolver use?

John

 

[Fatdaddy]

I kind of like the Judge but would only shoot 45 Colt out of it.
I can tell you from experience that birdshot is practically useless out of it past 5ft, even for snakes.

 

[RealGun]

Those who weren't asked are being too aggressive in expressing their disdain for these guns and in implying their disrespect for those who choose to own them.

Those who insist the guns are not effective are generally not offering any evidence either. I would agree that unfounded claims for the guns should at least be ignored, but insisting that someone offer evidence to back up their hyperbole seems like unnecessary aggression to me. Might want to throttle it back a notch, especially when the thread is one in which only fans of the guns need apply, according to the OP.

I have a different approach to my owning a Judge and that is regarding it as one of the more fun plinkers that one could own. I have since added a sling to my 410 coach gun and carry and shoot both. The Judge can be carried cross draw, so I still can have a primary carry strong side.

My Judge is just a toy here, and there is never a shortage of takers, if I offer to let others shoot it, always with the shot shells. I never use it for 45 Colt, but the ammo belt has the Colts if desired. Most of my other guns are "toys" too, but my carry guns are a different story.

 

[MaxP]

I kind of like the Judge but would only shoot 45 Colt out of it.

In that case there are much better options. I personally feel they are more gimmick than substance.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I said it when they first came out, and I'll say it again, a bad idea, poorly executed.

I'm with Vern.

When I was a new shooter I wanted one. Then I started reading about the effectiveness of 410 from a barrel that short, and bought a Ruger SP101 instead as it would do everything I wanted, only better.

Then federal came out with their loads to help close the effectiveness gap. So at that point I picked up a Bond Arms 45/410 derringer. It wasn't any fun, so that was traded towards an XDs in 45. The 410 isn't a great performer from a short barrel, but I still wouldn't want to be shot with one. The only reason I'd ever re-enter that world would be if I had s problem with poison snakes on my land.

A friend of mine bought a public defender and the timing was so screwed up that one chamber wouldn't fire. So he returned it and got a full sized. The cylinder fell off the gun. He lost all confidence in Taurus guns at that point and bought a S&W Givenor, and has been happy ever since.

Being able to shoot 45 cap out of it is a real bonus because 45 Colt is dang expensive.

 

[mavracer]

Had a 45 Colt .410 Contender barrel a long time ago, found that shooting without the choke tube ( so that either round could be used ) the 410 wasn't effective at any further range than 44 special shot shells for critters, by the time pellets are big enough to carry energy very far the pattern becomes very sparce.
And while 410 buckshot might be effective up close, I'm not convinced it's any more effective than a 200-250gr JHP up close and I know the JHP is more effective at longer range.

 

[JShirley]

Might want to throttle it back a notch, especially when the thread is one in which only fans of the guns need apply, according to the OP

The thread is actually soliciting opinions from Judge owners, of which I am one.

 

[TimSr]

....throwing a wide enough pattern that you may hit a target even if you can't clearly identify it.

Kind of a leap from what he actually said, isn't it?

 

[fireman 9731]

My dad has one and I have shot it some. I thought about getting the 6 inch barreled version but common sense prevailed. It is cool, but there are much better options for self defense.
If you must have one, I would opt for a S&W Governor.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

So if you did buy one you could always shoot .45 Colt and a 250 grain .45 at 800 FPS is nothing to sneeze at, much better IMHO as a manstopper than .410.

True, but why carry all that extra cylinder length, then? Just carry a .45.

 

[Fatdaddy]

In that case there are much better options. I personally feel they are more gimmick than substance.

Usually not at it's price point....I've never shot the buckshoot loads so it might be an option.

 

[gotboostvr]

I find more value in them as double action 45cal revolvers than as the "mini shotgun" that some treat them as.

I had a governor, shot some 45acp through it. Put a box of 410 through it, after that was out of my system I went out and picked up a 625 and sold the governor.

 

[MaxP]

You can pretty much count on any revolver actually chambered just for .45 Colt to outshoot a Judge loaded with .45 Colt ammo, and they are available at a number of different price points. I just feel for a .45 Colt, you can do a whole lot better. JMHO. They're kind of like an on- and off-road motorcycle. They can do both, but neither really well.

 

[JShirley]

Kind of a leap from what he actually said, isn't it?

I don't think so. The claim was

increase hit probability in low light

Now, why would there be a problem with "hit probability in low light"? Obviously, it would be limited vision. But why would the defender be firing if he can't clearly identify if there's a threat? And doesn't it stand to reason that, if the threat can be clearly identified, that there is therefore enough light to aim sufficiently?

Let me be very clear: if someone owns something, and likes it, good for them. That's their right. On the other hand, if claims are made regarding something's effectiveness in an attempt to persuade others to also get it, careful examination of those claims seems reasonable, especially if self-defense is the supposed use of the tool in question.

John

 

[PapaG]

Sold about 20, bought one myself when one finally came in with almost properly sized chamber throats. Most folks complained of severe leading with 45 Colt ammo. I returned several to Taurus to be refitted with properly machined cylinders (almost all came with chamber throats around .463 to .465". Way too big for .452 dua bullets do obturate.) The tech agreed but most came back with the original cylinder. Mine leaded badly, even with .454" throats.
As far as shot loads, the old shotgun loads didn't pattern very well except for some 3" Remington 7 1/2s. The 3 disc/12 BB was pretty good at 7 yards but I did no penetration tests. My Bulldog 44 patterned as well with 6 shot out of Speer shot caps.
I went to plated bullets to eliminate the leading issue.
I feel the Governor is better made but both of the ones we sold leaded badly. Note that most folks shot "cowboy" loads.
A couple friends have them, Taurii, live in southern IL, and are quite happy with their performance on rattlers and copperheads. I sold mine as it was too big and did nothing my Bulldog or 624 wouldn't do.
Fun to play with, hard to delead.
Not bashing in any way, just sharing four or five years of personal experience.

 

[243winxb]

Judge 410

Judge 410 shell came apart. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478105 Seen them being shot. Interesting firearm.

 

[lobo9er]

i don't have a dog in this fight... 410 has advantage for the recoil sensitive. And I maybe wrong but very nice 410's are still available for sale from many major manufactures.

 

[Fatdaddy]

The Judge I had was pretty nice and as accurate as most of my other service weapons. I gave $400 for it used OTD and it loved the same .452 cast boolit my 1911 enjoys. I sold it to fund another purchase....
Here's the model I had: