"Judge" owners I need your thoughts..

[midland man]

well to the ones who think the 410 is wimpy well I challenge you to stand in front of one and see how wimpy it is!!

 

[Sam1911]

well to the ones who think the 410 is wimpy well I challenge you to stand in front of one and see how wimpy it is!!

Truly the dumbest argument for any defensive firearm choice.

I don't want to stand in front of a single-shot .22. I don't want to stand in front of a bow and arrow. I don't want to stand in front of a BB gun. Hell, I don't particularly want to stand in front of you while you break wind.

But I'm not holding those up as good choices in the market of defensive firearms options.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Truly the dumbest argument for any defensive firearm choice.

I don't want to stand in front of a single-shot .22. I don't want to stand in front of a bow and arrow. I don't want to stand in front of a BB gun. Hell, I don't particularly want to stand in front of you while you break wind.

But I'm not holding those up as good choices in the market of defensive firearms options.

I dunno. That last choice you listed sounds pretty deadly to me.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I dunno. That last choice you listed sounds pretty deadly to me.

There are international laws against the use of chemical weapons, and the BATFE would likely consider that a WMD. You'd probably have to register your bum and get a tax stamp and tag for your undies.

Of course California would ban that behind all together.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

That would explain why people from California are so anal retentive.

 

[Steel Talon]

If that's the intended purpose, then the only way to go is the Public Defender models.



The one on top is the Defender, the one on bottom is the regular Judge. There are a couple different versions of the PD's: there's a polymer frame model that weighs 23 oz and a steel frame a few ounces more. All models have a 2" barrel.

You seem to be set on a .410 handgun, have you looked at the Bond Arms derringers? They come in barrel lengths from 2.5" to 4.25" are very light and they are easy to carry.

Great info. Thanks for the comparison pictures.

Derringers don't fit my hand. So I can't draw them. Etc. With confidence

And yes the 410 is the interest, for activities stated earlier the thread. My regular carry for several years is my 45acp SW mdl457. So I'm use to carry a bit of weight.
If I'm walking thedog the 45 is a better cc rnd.however the 410 in cc while working a "dog fight" ismore controllable with less down range lethality.

 

[Steel Talon]

(my spell checker is killing me!)

We are a lively bunch here. From Box O Truth to "breaking wind" LOL
I appreciate everyone's responce even if they're not spot on the thread topic.
Much respect and peace to all.

 

[Paddy]

I had a 3" stainless judge for a while. I'm a fan of gimmick guns. I didn't buy it to defend myself or carry, but I like to shoot and my guns aren't safe queens. The judge wasn't really that much fun to shoot because with 410 it patterns so wide it's almost like throwing handfuls of gravel really fast, and with colt it didn't seem particularly accurate and shouldn't be as it's not really set up to shoot colt it more "can" because close counts on cylinder diameters. So i sold it and haven't regretted it.

One thought about defense. For me, defense could mean a dog attacking my dog in which case an indiscriminate blast of pellets could prove a hazard to my dog. This could hold true for a person being attacked by another person or animal as well. As far as snakes I imagine you don't need shot gun spreads to take them down as they probably don't require that level of speed. So i agree that a better choice would be a 45colt or any other revolver round, and if you want shot capabilities you can buy or make shot loads in those calibers.

 

[RealGun]

with 410 it patterns so wide it's almost like throwing handfuls of gravel really fast

#4 Buck is about the smallest you should be shooting. Yeah, I tried #4 Bird, and it sprayed around pretty good, even at close range.

 

[Sam1911]

As far as snakes I imagine you don't need shot gun spreads to take them down as they probably don't require that level of speed.

My thoughts exactly when it comes to all our discussions of "what gun for snakes?"

If you see it in time to do something about it before you're bitten, you probably have time to avoid it entirely. It's not like they can outrun you, or (mostly) want to. If you actually are harmed by it, it's because you made it "getcha" before you had any idea it was there and so didn't know to shoot at it. And if it's close enough to "getcha" (or already has got-cha) shooting at it with ANYTHING seems to be merely compounding your own problems!

So carrying around a gun that's specifically suited, or loaded, for shooting snakes seems pointless.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

That would explain why people from California are so anal retentive.

Ha!

Ok, back on track. When I shot my buddy's public defender with birdshot the spread was about the size of a basket ball at 20 feet. It would definitely make an attacker think twice.

I could see the benefit of low penetration being beneficial if you lived in an appartment.

Does anyone know of any actual accounts of a Judge being used for SD?

 

[Zaydok Allen]

My thoughts exactly when it comes to all our discussions of "what gun for snakes?"

If you see it in time to do something about it before you're bitten, you probably have time to avoid it entirely. It's not like they can outrun you, or (mostly) want to. If you actually are harmed by it, it's because you made it "getcha" before you had any idea it was there and so didn't know to shoot at it. And if it's close enough to "getcha" (or already has got-cha) shooting at it with ANYTHING seems to be merely compounding your own problems!

So carrying around a gun that's specifically suited, or loaded, for shooting snakes seems pointless.

I agree. Every time I've encountered rattlesnakes they just wanted to get away from me since I'm not food to them. Though, I've never had an issue with snakes living under my deck or anything. If I did, I'd likely just buy some 45 caliber CCI shot cartridges and use that, not buy an entirely new gun. Heck, a well aimed 22 short would do just fine. I don't think the OP is worried about snakes though anyway.

I also do specific things to avoid accidental encounters while I work though. Avoidance is cheaper than ammo.

 

[Combat Engineer]

Picked up the smallest Judge made...passed on the Governor, like my S&Ws but the Governor is just too big... needs to be a 5 shot cylinder... since I do carry the Judge on occasion.

Re: the Judge Public Defender:
The good:

Build quality very good, not a Smith, but not far behind. Accurate to 20 feet. For the handloader, well a lot of fun can be had with a .410 brass shell. Stopping power... well there's a fair bit of recoil happening which tells me the assailant is absorbing a lot of same, and possibly with less damage to unintended targets. The 45 Colt slugs are surprisingly accurate.

The bad:
Not sure about penetration, have only shot thru paper.
Inside 10 feet am fine with the Public Defender (especially indoors), beyond that a 44 Spl or 45 ACP is preferred.

Oddly enough, one of the major reasons for acquiring it, is the 45 Colt capability... tho I like my S&Ws, Rugers, and Colts, (none chambered in 45 Colt) the combination of a mini shotgun shell (.410) and 45 Colt appeal... allow for flexibility and measured practicality in a handgun.

Pictured bellow: The smallest .410 5-shot handgun available. (about the size of a 1911 Commander) And a variety of store bought and handloaded ammo. The bottom brass handload has a copper disk top and three .36 cal lead balls underneath. Shot by that is like me getting hit by four 9mm bullets simultaneously. And I get to pull the trigger four more times.

Will try to find the time to do some penetration tests.

 

[scchokedaddy]

judge or no judge

Well it seems as if once again by reading all the comments by the learned experts found herein, that I have made a grave error in my choice of defence weapon for my forays into the outdoors! Oh woe is me!! Guess I have to go apologize to numerous copperheads,rattlers,and more mocasins than I care to think about, as well several deer put out of their misery, oh and can not forget several possums and a couple a coons. But in all honesty that's what I bought it for. Never tried the 45 lc in it. Tried the bond derringer, not impressed at all, not comfortable to shooy at all. I usually load Remington #9 for fishing, great snake load, 7.5s for yard pests and 1or2 buckshot loads in the mix while deer hunting in case I need to finish one off. Used 22 shotshells when younger then went to 38 shotshells, then eyes started giving me problems and wanted more cushion so went 410. Tried those little double barrel derringers, OUCH!! Bond derringers, OUCH!! Small grip Judge no fun either. Then tried plain Judge ,short barreled and long version. Settled on short version. Why? Well the short one gave better pattern than long one. While I do agree with comments about not being ideal for personal defence against 2 legged varmits, it works dang well on no shoulder variety as well as smaller 4 legged ones. Never have tried any of the fancy ammo, have no desire to, after all I bought it for snakes and varmits in yard and it does everything I expect of it. I have also tried the Governor and Heritage Arms versions, but like the grip on the Tarus better. With my arthritis its easier on hands. Yes it is heavy, and darn sure will pull your pants down, but suspenders will solve that or even better yet shoulder holster. The Judge platform [or any 45 410] is not for everyone due to size and honestly they are kinda Ugly Sorry for long rant, just trying to answer original post and reason for my choice. SHAME ON ME for not seeking expert advice!! But I promise before I make any rash choices in the future I will ask advice of the chosen next time. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YALL AND HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!! sugapappy

 

[Onward Allusion]

well to the ones who think the 410 is wimpy well I challenge you to stand in front of one and see how wimpy it is!!

I'll give you a dollar if you have a friend or family member empty a mag of 25ACP into you.

Seriously, I don't think anyone said that the 410 from a Judge or Governor won't kill you. The point is that there are a lot better options without the hype.

 

[judgedelta]

I've got a 4" polished stainless Judge with which I have killed several snakes and a racoon. Any handgun, purporting to shoot shotshells, which is rifled (as required by federal law) is severely handicapped. The pattern has been described as "bagel-shaped" - slightly elongated with a hole in the middle. I find this to be true. For snakes and such, the Judge is easily as effective as a hoe, at comparable ranges, and much handier to carry. Just my opinion...

 

[haybaler]

I won't recommend the Governor over the Judge as it is a matter of choice. I have the Governor and I've shot woodpeckers at 40 ft. using 2 1/2" 4 shot. Don't tell these guns are not a good choice for self defense. Loaded with Winchester PDX or other self defense .410 ammo they would be very effective in a home defense situation. Over penetration would not be as much of a concern.

When hiking with my dogs I carry mine loaded with .45 Colt and I also like that I can load it with moon clips with .45acp. The one downside is I can't load it as hot as my Blackhawk .45.

 

[TruthTellers]

The one downside is I can't load it as hot as my Blackhawk .45.

That'd be kind of pointless if you could load it with hot .45 Colt as the barrel isn't even 3 inches long.

 

[haybaler]

That'd be kind of pointless if you could load it with hot .45 Colt as the barrel isn't even 3 inches long.


That's a good point.

 

[ThomasT]

I stated in my earlier post that "everyone jumps up and says they are too weak and the pellet count is too small". But I don't think that at all. A 410 from a handgun? No thanks, I will pass. There are too many better options.

I bought a 410 shotgun from WM about 4 years ago. It was one of the remington imported EAA 22/410 combo guns someone had ordered then decided they didn't want. I paid $395 for the gun a and a box of 3" shells. I saw right off I better find a way to reload them. It came with 4 screw in choke tubes.

I was impressed with the accuracy of the 22 barrel. I set up empty bean cans at 25 yards and was REALLY impressed with how hard it hit and how many pettets hit and went through both sides of the cans. It was far better than what I had read on the internet. Is it a good gun for clay targets or flying birds? No, not with me shooting it.

I made my own reloading set up and use a MEC 410 sizer on the brass. I liked buck shot loads so much I bought a .395 round ball mold and load my own buckshot. I use a roll crimper from BPI. You ought to see what it does to a 2x4 at 20 yards. I wouldn't have any problem using this load on a deer to 30 yards.

I ended up buying 4 more 410 shotguns. I had one that had the stock shortened so I gave it to my young nephew. So I personaly like a 410 and think it would make an excellent survival gun for sitting game. It will not replace my 12 and 20 gauges but I like the option of having it. My favorite 410s are the two H&R single shots I have. I have one each to leave to my two sons.

 

[RealGun]

I stated in my earlier post that "everyone jumps up and says they are too weak and the pellet count is too small". But I don't think that at all. A 410 from a handgun? No thanks, I will pass. There are too many better options.

I bought a 410 shotgun from WM about 4 years ago. It was one of the remington imported EAA 22/410 combo guns someone had ordered then decided they didn't want. I paid $395 for the gun a and a box of 3" shells. I saw right off I better find a way to reload them. It came with 4 screw in choke tubes.

I was impressed with the accuracy of the 22 barrel. I set up empty bean cans at 25 yards and was REALLY impressed with how hard it hit and how many pettets hit and went through both sides of the cans. It was far better than what I had read on the internet. Is it a good gun for clay targets or flying birds? No, not with me shooting it.

I made my own reloading set up and use a MEC 410 sizer on the brass. I liked buck shot loads so much I bought a .395 round ball mold and load my own buckshot. I use a roll crimper from BPI. You ought to see what it does to a 2x4 at 20 yards. I wouldn't have any problem using this load on a deer to 30 yards.

I ended up buying 4 more 410 shotguns. I had one that had the stock shortened so I gave it to my young nephew. So I personaly like a 410 and think it would make an excellent survival gun for sitting game. It will not replace my 12 and 20 gauges but I like the option of having it. My favorite 410s are the two H&R single shots I have. I have one each to leave to my two sons.

Your expertise is the 410 but not the Judge. You should try some #4 buck and actually shoot one of the guns before dismissing it. I was guided by 45hickok's YT video, in which he does a great job of showing the effect of a number of different loads. It was never clear to me whether he was shooting #4 bird or #4 buck, but he gave the nod to #4 whatever as the best shooter. My mold is for #4 buck, and I know the #4 bird ammo I bought is too much of a spray-and-pray for my use other than goofing around peppering used targets at the range. I do have a 410 coach gun though and can use more variety of shot in it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've shot woodpeckers at 40 ft. using 2 1/2" 4 shot.

Why on earth would you shoot woodpeckers?

 

[Fatdaddy]

I'm not hating on the Judge but anyone planning on using 410 shotshells should set a 1/2 inch piece of plywood up at the distances they are planning on utilizing it for....I think you would be amazed at the pattern and lack of penetration.
Someone mentioned hoe-length, this is about the effective range of birdshot.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Why on earth would you shoot woodpeckers?

Some woodpeckers develop a nasty habit of pounding holes in wood siding as they look for grubs, which happened to my dad last summer.

When I was a kid there was one that enjoyed making the rounds in my neighborhood at 4:30 am to pound on everyone's metal chimney pipe. Sleep was interrupted numerous days in a row by that dang bird.

A fake owl usually takes care of the issue.

 

[haybaler]

A woodpecker hammering on your house or metal chimney sounds like a jackhammer. As 460Kodiak stated they like to do it very early in the morning. It is very annoying. I have a couple of woodpecker holes in my gables big enough for a bird to get into the attic. They just don't give up.