Just to clarify...
- Thread starter monotonous_iterancy
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How about when the DHS said that veterans were potential domestic terrorists?
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Again, not a conspiracy theory. Just a bad official opinion/policy.
For it to be a conspiracy theory it kind of has to be something that an agency doesn't come out and publish but rather something that folks think they've "discovered" and claim about an agency or organization.
If Fidel had published a newspaper editorial saying, "We shot JFK..." then that wouldn't be a conspiracy theory, just a probably false claim. If, absent all but assumptions and scattered bits of inconclusive info, people started claiming that the Cubans killed JFK and LBJ and the Soviets were in on it, THAT's a conspiracy theory.
There has to be an element of cover-up and secrecy about it. Anything published as an official statement really doesn't fit.
It's pretty difficult to apply the conspiracy theory idea to what a government agency thinks about the people. Almost by definition a conspiracy theory is something that the outsiders/common folks believe about a small group in power.
For it to be a conspiracy theory it kind of has to be something that an agency doesn't come out and publish but rather something that folks think they've "discovered" and claim about an agency or organization.
If Fidel had published a newspaper editorial saying, "We shot JFK..." then that wouldn't be a conspiracy theory, just a probably false claim. If, absent all but assumptions and scattered bits of inconclusive info, people started claiming that the Cubans killed JFK and LBJ and the Soviets were in on it, THAT's a conspiracy theory.
There has to be an element of cover-up and secrecy about it. Anything published as an official statement really doesn't fit.
It's pretty difficult to apply the conspiracy theory idea to what a government agency thinks about the people. Almost by definition a conspiracy theory is something that the outsiders/common folks believe about a small group in power.
One of the more famous conspiracy theories out there is that Thomas Dodd (Connecticut Senator and the main thrust behind the 68 GCA) patterned the 1968 GCA after the Nazi gun laws of 1938.
But Dodd was working on gun control since 1961 when he started a study on mail order guns for two years ending in 1963 before JFK. Later on from about 1963 - 1968 He held the infamous "Dodd Hearings" taking all sorts of input for gun control. And it was noted that Dodd officially asked for the translations of the Nazi gun laws in July of 1938. There is even an official dated letter showing that Dodd asked for the translation officially.
http://jpfo.org/images02/handbill-thomasdodd.jpg
And since Dodd asked (officially) for the translations of the Nazi Gun Control laws very late in the game. This proves that the 1968 GCA was not patterned after the Nazi 1938 GCA.
However...... Thomas Dodd (the architect of the 1968 Gun Control Act) was in Nuremberg Germany as a part of the U.S. prosecution team. But what about that July 1968 letter? Read on...
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MediaPages/ArticleDetail.aspx?mediaid=162
"Some speculate that Senator Dodd spoke German as was apparent during the trials when he cross-examined witnesses. While the President of the hearings repeatedly asked some witnesses to slow down so the interpreter could keep up, Senator Dodd never made the same request. So, it would not be a stretch to assume that he did follow the German language. And you might ask, if he could converse in German, why the translation to start with? The answer, it appears, was to "launder" GWA38 through the Library of Congress to fend off any criticism that the legislation closely resembled GWA38."
So based on the above. Dodd did a formal request of a translation of the German Gun Laws of 1968 in order to make it look like he was asking for input (July 1968) after most (if not all) of the 1968 GCA was already written up.
Here is some more information regarding Dodd's participation in the Nuremberg trials
http://today.uconn.edu/blog/2014/02/historic-nuremberg-papers-of-sen-thomas-dodd-go-digital/
"Papers of Sen. Thomas J. Dodd, for whom UConn’s Dodd Research Center is named. The former Special Assistant to the U.S. Attorney General supervised the day-to-day prosecution team of the United States during the International Military Tribunals in 1945-46, which prosecuted the leadership of Nazi Germany for war crimes during World War II. "
So yes, the conspiracy theory that Dodd patterned the 1968 GCA after the 1938 Nazi GCA very well could be true. If Dodd spoke fluent German and spent some time in Germany, he very well could have seen the 1938 Nazi Gun Control Laws during his time there in the 1940's.
I need to research this further and find out the German gun laws AFTER WWII. Who wrote them, helped write them and who was on the research team for them. I would assume the allies would have had some disarmament plan for Germany's surrender. It is a path worth investigating to see if Dodd had any involvement in German gun laws after WWII and what if any did he contribute to the German disarmament.
One last thing...I find it interesting that Dodd was doing a study on mail order guns in 1961 and it ran until 1963 before JFK got shot. Is there another conspiracy theory in the making? That is for another forum, another debate and for another time.
.
But Dodd was working on gun control since 1961 when he started a study on mail order guns for two years ending in 1963 before JFK. Later on from about 1963 - 1968 He held the infamous "Dodd Hearings" taking all sorts of input for gun control. And it was noted that Dodd officially asked for the translations of the Nazi gun laws in July of 1938. There is even an official dated letter showing that Dodd asked for the translation officially.
http://jpfo.org/images02/handbill-thomasdodd.jpg
And since Dodd asked (officially) for the translations of the Nazi Gun Control laws very late in the game. This proves that the 1968 GCA was not patterned after the Nazi 1938 GCA.
However...... Thomas Dodd (the architect of the 1968 Gun Control Act) was in Nuremberg Germany as a part of the U.S. prosecution team. But what about that July 1968 letter? Read on...
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MediaPages/ArticleDetail.aspx?mediaid=162
"Some speculate that Senator Dodd spoke German as was apparent during the trials when he cross-examined witnesses. While the President of the hearings repeatedly asked some witnesses to slow down so the interpreter could keep up, Senator Dodd never made the same request. So, it would not be a stretch to assume that he did follow the German language. And you might ask, if he could converse in German, why the translation to start with? The answer, it appears, was to "launder" GWA38 through the Library of Congress to fend off any criticism that the legislation closely resembled GWA38."
So based on the above. Dodd did a formal request of a translation of the German Gun Laws of 1968 in order to make it look like he was asking for input (July 1968) after most (if not all) of the 1968 GCA was already written up.
Here is some more information regarding Dodd's participation in the Nuremberg trials
http://today.uconn.edu/blog/2014/02/historic-nuremberg-papers-of-sen-thomas-dodd-go-digital/
"Papers of Sen. Thomas J. Dodd, for whom UConn’s Dodd Research Center is named. The former Special Assistant to the U.S. Attorney General supervised the day-to-day prosecution team of the United States during the International Military Tribunals in 1945-46, which prosecuted the leadership of Nazi Germany for war crimes during World War II. "
So yes, the conspiracy theory that Dodd patterned the 1968 GCA after the 1938 Nazi GCA very well could be true. If Dodd spoke fluent German and spent some time in Germany, he very well could have seen the 1938 Nazi Gun Control Laws during his time there in the 1940's.
I need to research this further and find out the German gun laws AFTER WWII. Who wrote them, helped write them and who was on the research team for them. I would assume the allies would have had some disarmament plan for Germany's surrender. It is a path worth investigating to see if Dodd had any involvement in German gun laws after WWII and what if any did he contribute to the German disarmament.
One last thing...I find it interesting that Dodd was doing a study on mail order guns in 1961 and it ran until 1963 before JFK got shot. Is there another conspiracy theory in the making? That is for another forum, another debate and for another time.
.
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Pizzapinochle
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BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Sam1911 said:
Agreed. At this point we're proposing ideas for an event that already happened.
So how did it go?
monotonous_iterancy
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Awful. I was unprepared. I'd been up till 1 in the morning researching and compiling my information into bullet-points. I didn't have anything written out except bullet points. I didn't time it, didn't edit my speech, and didn't really prepare.
I was banking on two things.
1. I'd be one of the only people giving a presentation that day
2. My oratory would be so mesmerizing, and my topic so interesting, that they'd forgive me if I went a little over-time.
I crashed and burned. If anything, I had too much info. I winged it. It was supposed to be a 5 minute speech, I went 27 minutes and finally got cut off. Everyone else got applause. I got a sigh of relief.
Part of it is that some people get nervous with speeches, and they choke. Not me, I use it, and I get really into my speeches. I didn't focus on the clock, I don't focus on much else besides my speech.
When I was done speaking, I felt weak, light-headed, with an adrenaline rush. And I sat down in shock at the amount of time I took.
In hindsight, I could have cut some sections out. And I probably should have worked backwards from our current time, because that's more interesting, and the 90s has guns and a lot of conspiracy theories linked together. In one section, I got bogged down talking about the whacked out paranoia surrounding the Watts riots (which was fed by California officials).
I realized half-way through my speech that I was sinking, but I felt I couldn't just stop in the middle, so I decided to push through it.
Bottom line, don't be like me! Don't cram for a speech.
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