K-31 No Thanks
- Thread starter Steve Marshall
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Carl N. Brown
Member
Heck .30 Carbine has been touch-and-go the past few years.
One reason I have come to advocate buying a "battle pack" of 200 to 500 rounds for your military surplus gun as a reserve supply just-in-case of a shortage and buy ammo as you shoot it, but avoid touching the reserve.
That's how the Swiss Army treated its reservists: they had to leave the issue battle pack unopened, but were encouraged to buy their own for extra practice and had access to surplus ammo.
sixgunner455
Member
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- Aug 25, 2006
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Sigh. This thread just made me get out my K31 and pet it. And order some ammo for it. Haven't shot it in months 'cause I've been down to 1.5 battle packs for it, and haven't gotten around to developing loads yet.
I really don't like K-31s either. I'm lefthanded and compared to a Steyr M95, the bolt's atrocious for me to try to operate. The ergonomics in general aren't that great for me either.
However, the Swiss G11, or 96/11, are tremendous rifles. Yes, the action is even longer, and the bolt throw too, but in terms of fitting me and shooting better than can be believed, I cannot fault them. The K31 pales by comparison both in ergonomics and accuracy.
However, the Swiss G11, or 96/11, are tremendous rifles. Yes, the action is even longer, and the bolt throw too, but in terms of fitting me and shooting better than can be believed, I cannot fault them. The K31 pales by comparison both in ergonomics and accuracy.
35 Whelen
Member
It is reloadable, you just have to deal with the headaches of Berdan primers. A more simple solution is to buy 7.5 Swiss brass from Graf's or buy some Prvi loaded ammo. Order 5 or so boxes, shoot it and have fun, then you have a pile of brass!
35W
Thanks, 35!
spencerhut
Member
My K31 is a little short for me, I'm pushing 6'4" though. I keep meaning to try a slip on pad and I always seem to forget it. Very accurate, very finely made gun.
Steve Marshall
Member
35 Whelen, In both videos the shooters are breaking cheek weld to extract a round. The first video shows the guy shooting 10? rounds in about 50 seconds. That is NOT rapid fire. It may be for a High Power Match but it is not otherwise particularly rapid. I have fired 40 aimed shots from an Enfield in a minute trying to duplicate Sgt. Snoxall's feat (38 hits on a 12" target at 300 yards with an Enfield) but didn't succeed. At one time, every Brit soldier was trained to shoot 30 aimed shots a minute. Some of the better ones got off 60 in a minute. I don't know what the precision criteria was, but by any standard THAT is rapid fire. In addition, I've never hit my nose with any other bolt action. Keep your Swiss. I'm glad you like it. But for me 1MOA is not required, I'll settle for 3 or 4 and in slow fire, prone, my Enfields will do that as they say, all day long.
Enfield is a nice rifle. Not my cup of tea...really nothing the English makes is my cup of tea...from cars, motorcycles, to rifles. The 3-4 MOA range is comparable to the MN91/30. I rather spend $70 for the MN 91/30 than hundreds for an Enfield. Viva la K-31! Sweetness for $250 doesn't get any better.
35 Whelen
Member
That is AIMED rapid fire. If the guy in the first video is any kind of a shot at all, all of his shots likely went into less than 3". Sorry, but in my opinion, there's is no way on God's green earth you can fire 40 "aimed" shots in a minute and really be aiming...especially not with any bolt rifle.
Hey if you like the Enfield, more power to you.
35W
Steve Marshall
Member
35 Whelen, please google Sgt Snoxall. In 1914, he hit a 12" target 38 times in one minute at 300 yards. THAT is rapid fire. Just because I didn't succeed doesn't mean it can't be done. I scored 20 hits on two pieces of typing paper taped together and centered on a B-27 silhouette. All but 3 were in the B-27. Why don't you try that with a K-31. If you can do it without blood and get 40 shots off (with a fair amount of hits) I'll buy you a box of Swiss. How's that?
Seems to be unsubstantiated rumor.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?110388-Sergeant-Instructor-Snoxall
In addition one post claims, "The account of the 38 HITS score being in the 12" bullseye is incorrect, the 4 ring on the standard target at 300 yds was 36". "
With dozens, maybe hundreds, of people trying to find information on Sgt Snoxall, they can't even come up with a first name for the man.
35 Whelen
Member
I'd have to see some sort of credible reference to believe the Snoxall story. As for firing 40 shots in 60 seconds and putting them all in a 12" cirlcle...very difficult to believe.
At one of our High Power matches a year or so ago, we did a "reduced course Rattle Battle". A Rattle Battle is an event at Camp Perry in which competitors for as many shots as they can in 60 seconds at a silhouette target. Hit the sil, and it's a score, miss it, and it's a miss. One of our local competitors, a 17 year old who already holds a Master classification, has been to Perry twice and participated in the RB's. At our little simulated RB we fired at the same silhouette target be reduced in size proportionately. I managed 18 shots if memory serves, but they all grouped quite nicely. Our 17 year old "veteran" of the RB "only" managed 30-some shots....with an AR15 using 20 round magazines!! That is the main reason I find it difficult to believe someone could fire 40 shots from a bolt rifle with any reasonable degree of accuracy. But hey, I've been wrong before.
35W
Shadow 7D
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee-Enfield#cite_note-9
http://militarythoughts.blogspot.com/2007/10/this-is-coolbert-sergeant-instructor.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_minute
Sorry, but it's the truth, a British infantry soldier was expected to place 15 aimed shots in one minute. Some did a bit better.
http://militarythoughts.blogspot.com/2007/10/this-is-coolbert-sergeant-instructor.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_minute
Sorry, but it's the truth, a British infantry soldier was expected to place 15 aimed shots in one minute. Some did a bit better.
Shadow 7D
Member
Ok, then just follow the links in the bottom of the wiki page...
So sorry, kinda hard to copy a book, and I didn't have the Sgt.'s name on hand.
So sorry, kinda hard to copy a book, and I didn't have the Sgt.'s name on hand.
Still, you've never seen the info you quote. You assume that whoever added it to wiki did so correctly and even then you assume that whatever is in that book you haven't seen is correct. A lot of assumptions to go stating what is and isn't fact.
Ignition Override
Member
If the ammo were to sell for about the same price as Prvi .303 ("British") and be reloadable with the same prices for components, I might try a K-31. A guy just sold me a bunch of x54R bullets at about .10 each, for my Enfields.
A guy at either 'Gunboards' or maybe 'Surplusrifle' lives in northern Italy and has contacts in Switzerland.
If I understood correctly, the Swiss have huge heaps of GP-11 ammo and still export it to the US.
If this is true, does the (single?) importer keep the quantity very limited in order to keep the price high?
A guy at either 'Gunboards' or maybe 'Surplusrifle' lives in northern Italy and has contacts in Switzerland.
If I understood correctly, the Swiss have huge heaps of GP-11 ammo and still export it to the US.
If this is true, does the (single?) importer keep the quantity very limited in order to keep the price high?
35 Whelen
Member
Prvi loads 7.5 Swiss and it's roughly the same price as 303 Br. The GP-11 sounds expensive, but 50¢ +/- per round is not bad at all...especially considering this stuff is absolutely match grade. I've loaded extensively for the K-31 and even loads with Sierra 155 gr. Palmas and Nosler 155 gr. HP's group no better than GP-11. Check this out:
Comparing the x54r bullets to any .308 bullet isn't a real comparison as in my experience, the x54r bullets are of low quality.
35W
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