Kel-Tec Sub 2000 vs Hi-Point Carbine or other

[Woody_in_MN]

OK - my bullet numbers were off - I was doing this from memory. So correction - 147 for 9mm, vs 180 for 40sw = 22 % difference.

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Anyway,

I took the plung. I stewed, and stewed on this. When someone said the Kel Tec carbine build quality was like their pistols, I dropped the Kel Tec from my list. Last minute I did consider a Ruger PC9 - but availibility was a problem.

I found a 9mm Hi-Point w/ Chrome (I REALLY wanted the chrome.) The dealer wanted $180 - I talked him down to $165 plus $16 shipping. I did want a carbine, not a rifle. And 9mm is better than 40sw for my needs. So I went ahead. I should get the HP in a couple weeks.
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Does anyone have the 15 round clip that feeds right in the Hi-Point?

- w

 

[halvey]

15 round clip

15 round magazine.

Not to razz you or anything, but you took the HP over the Kel Tec because of quality??

I thought you just sold some CZ's because you didn't like them - why are you ordering another?

 

[BryanP]

You may want to wait for the 45 cal coming out in January/february timeframe

They said that last year, too. I'll believe it when it's on the shelves.

 

[Domino]

I took the plung. I stewed, and stewed on this. When someone said the Kel Tec carbine build quality was like their pistols, I dropped the Kel Tec from my list. Last minute I did consider a Ruger PC9 - but availibility was a problem.

I must admit I found this a bit humorous, to take a Hi-point over a Kel-Tec because of quality is pretty funny. I own a Kel-Tec and a friend of mine owns a HI-point, both are really good shooters but the Kel-Tec is more comfortable, has better portability, and more firepower. That bieng said you should be very pleased with your Hi-point as long as you are not expecting a fine piece of handcrafted workmanship. They are rugged, reliable, and will get the job done.

 

[Woody_in_MN]

Halvey -

I thought you just sold some CZ's because you didn't like them - why are you ordering another?

I don't think I said I did not like CZ's. I am selling a RAMI because I had originally intended that as my CCW, but I lucked into a S&W 469. That is a better size CCW for my build. Every CZ I've shot has been very accurate. And pretty dependable.

Domino,

I must admit I found this a bit humorous, to take a Hi-point over a Kel-Tec because of quality is pretty funny.

I'm not trying to come off like I know everything, 'cause I don't. But Kel-Tec pistols feel like toys to me. Hi-Point products do not; ditto Rugers. I know there are people out there that like them, but I know one forum member that regretes taking a Kel Tec p11 in to his CCW class. It was jamming so much the instructor suggested he get somehting else.

If the 15 round clips work - I don't see how the kel tec will have more fire-power - unless the Kel Tec takes a thirty round. I mean if the 15 works, I can have 45 rounds close at hand - one 15 in the gun, and 2 of the 15 round mags in the magazine pouch they make for the Hi Point.

I'd still like to know if those 15 rounders work.

- w

 

[student]

Actually the Kel-tec will take 20 and 30 rnd mags.

 

[Woody_in_MN]

Student - I think it depends on which "grip" configuration - right?

- w

 

[esldude]

Well, no the Keltec will take any pistol rounds for which it is made. Like the Glock 33 round mag. Fits right in, and works fine in the Sub2K.

 

[Woody_in_MN]

Well - yeah that's what I meant - the Glock configuration takes glock mags, the S&W configuration takes S&W mags, etc. (I think).

- w

 

[30-40Krag dude]

i love shooting my hi-point, my only real complaint is the plastic gets slipery when my hands get sweaty. added some grip tape and all is well.

 

[BreakerDave]

I like the idea behind the Kel-Tec Sub 2K, but it did seem a little crude when I shot it.

If you want a pistol caliber carbine, you should also consider the Beretta CX4 Storm. It is available in 9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP. -I have shot one of those in 9mm at a local range and it was very pleasant. One of its interesting features is that the controls can be reversed for lefties. While I'm not a big fan of pistol caliber carbines for self defense, it's a solid little plinker in 9mm.

Good luck with your selection.

 

[Woody_in_MN]

Thanks guys,

I did see a couple Berreta Storms. Really that seems to be the only new carbine that places like Gander Mountain, Cabella's seem to stock. I guess I could warm up to it. Not for the price anyway. I'm anxious to see the Hi-Point in the flesh.

God help me - Now I'm thinking about an AK47 - STOP THE MADNESS !!! - Ha!

- W

 

[TimH]

There was a rumor that Browning Hi Power mags fit the Hi-Points. I don't know if its true maybe someone can verify this.

 

[BryanP]

There was a rumor that Browning Hi Power mags fit the Hi-Points. I don't know if its true maybe someone can verify this.

Since the Hi Point is a single-stack and the Hi Power is a double-stack, I don't see how that's possible.

 

[Crosshair]

My $.02

Does anyone know where I can buy factory 995 magazines for a decent price. (No not the Hi-Point website.) Also, where can I get a scope mount for a Hi-Point 995 carbine. I own 3 of those POS 15 rounds mags. None of them work. Don't waste your money on the hi-cap magazines, get the factory mags.

 

[Woody_in_MN]

Crosshair -

Natchez has the Hi-Point factory for like $16 per clip. Also - I will take one of those POS 15 rounders off your hands. Maybe I can tweak them and get them to work. I'll send you a PM.

- w

 

[30-40Krag dude]

i found my extra mags at a gun show for around $10. and you could try calling hi-point, maybe they will send you a new scope mount.

 

[Crosshair]

I'll have to look at my Natchez catalog for those magazines. Stay away from the Pro-Mag brand for the Hi-Point.

 

[VaughnT]

I have a Marlin Camp carbine in .45acp and wouldn't recommend anyone buying one for home defense. It's a cute little carbine, and perfectly workable, but you can only get 10+1 capacity and the manual of arms is difficult to work because of the suck-butt controls. Having said that, don't think I'm not considering shelling out the bucks for a Choate folding stock; there will be a Democrat in office before too long.

The cheaper the carbine, the greater the chance you run of having problems. Of the two you are looking at, I would go with the KelTec in 9mm and run with it. I've even heard that the Sig or Beretta Sub2K will work with CZ mags.

The KT has a lot of aftermarket accessories available, including better sights. And, it's foldable. That makes it good for backpacking, road trips, whatever.

Get a 9mm version that takes glock mags and you have 30+ rounds of capacity. That's more than enough for any home-defense situation.

 

[Woody_in_MN]

Crosshair - Natchez sells both the ProMag, and the factory Hi-Point Mags.

VaughnT - I went for the Hi-Point. Order placed. Should see first week in December. I'll let everyone know how I like it.

- w

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Lever action is not an option for the same reason as shot gun - I don't want to leave a loaded gun in my house - even with a safety on. If I did I would get a used 12 gauge pump, cut the barrel down to shortest legal limit, and call it a day.

- w

Since shotguns are such great home defense weapons and you don't want a tube magazine weapon, have you considered a Saiga?

http://www.saiga-12.com/

Box magazine fed, gas operated autoloading shotgun, wot's not to like?

 

[Major Beer]

i never have seen that kel-Tec before - neat gun. i have shot the HiPoints - not bad - they are what they are. my 9mm Hi-Point pistol has fired everytime and i have put 2000-2500 rounds through it.

what ever you purchase, i would be interested in a range report.

 

[Woody_in_MN]

Otherguy - Pretty cool.

Major Beer - Do you have the Poly C9? I get occaisional mis-feeds on my C9 the couple times I have shot it. I'm trying to tweak the magazine top to totally eliminate. I'll probably know for sure the next couple outings with it. What ammo do you shoot in the Hi Point?

- W

 

[asnider123]

Update

I know I am about 3 years late, but I am now (as of last Sunday) the proud owner of BOTH the HP 995 and the Sub 2000.

I must agree with some who said the HP feels better (I have the ATI stock on the HP), but both seem to be good, solid weapons to me. The Sub 2000 is a lot easier to strip, it makes a bigger boom than the HP (the KT is in .40sw, so that's understandable) and the shoulder really could use a good rubber pad, but all in all I like the KT better. Both, though, are really fun pistol cal carbines.

Buy them both.

Alan in Oklahoma

 

[JShirley]

I had the Sub-9, which preceded the 2000. The 2000s aren't as nice, but seem to do the job for little cost.

I did want to address this:

I ruled out most powerful rifle calibers

If you're buying a carbine for home/SD, this makes no sense. Lightweight, lightly built bullets at high velocity have less penetration in tissue than pistol rounds. IOW, you're less likely to overpenetrate a bad guy with something like a 50 grain .223 Federal HP than a 155 grain .40 Gold Dot.

And the .223 is considerably more powerful. This is true of even more powerful calibers, as well. There are .308 cartridges, for instance, that would also exhibit minimal penetration, and there are varmint cartridges easily found in calibers such as .243 or .22-250. A single round of one of these would be significantly more effective than any two rounds of practically any pistol caliber, even from a carbine.

Just sayin'.

John