Knife techniques

[zahc]

At first I thought this might be over the top, but then we discuss how to kill people with guns all the time, drills and whatnot.

Anyway I was wondering if there was an agreed upon technique for cutting someone's throat or otherwise neutralize someone with a smallish knife. I'm thinking like a sentry removal scenario where you got the jump on someone.

Besides "Have a gun".

 

[Moonclip]

Kind of a off the wall subject but I guess I'll take a stab at it! There are different knife techniques but sentry removal?

Anyways I knew a guy who had been in the Rangers and he showed me a technique which involved coming from behind of course, keeping the sentry off balance , kind of lifting him off his feet a bit, I forget the exact technique, and then inserting the knife in the brain stem in that soft part a little above the neck

I have heard the knife slash across throat/hand over mouth to prevent noise is Hollywood stuff. Subject may actually bite your finger off in death throes or if he is a tough customer.

I think more realistic is knife stabbed into throat then slashed out. I doubt sentry would make much noise, blood and severed vocal area would not allow it very well I assume.

 

[Glock Glockler]

For removing a sentry wouldn't a garrot be more appropriate, or a hand over the mouth/chin for a neck break?

 

[1911 guy]

O.K., I'll bite

To cut a throat, you'll need to sever the trachea (front) and a major vein or artery (side). Keep in mind, that a severed windpipe is no guarantee of silence as hands clutched over the wound may allow enough air to get through the larnyx rather than escaping from the trachea.
The other option is to bone up on human anatomy and learn where to put your sticker to get at the diaphragm. Massive bleeding and a nonfunctional diaphragm means "hush, no talking".

 

[TarpleyG]

"Sentry" incapacitation is taught in the Marine Corps as approaching from the rear and getting a headlock with your other arm horizontal behind the neck, back up a step or two getting subject off balance and dropping to your stomach in one motion snapping the subject's neck. Never tried it on anything other than a dummy but it looks like it would do the job.

Also, here's some clown that thinks he has the right idea. I don't know him but chances are he's never seen combat beyond an xbox joystick.
http://www.geocities.com/mad_tactical/ModernCombatives.html

Greg

 

[tuna]

I'm sorry, my reality check is bouncing. A couple things come out at me...

1) Why are we taking out a sentry?
2) Why do we have to be quiet? If I ever need to use a knife, I'm going to be yelling at the top of my lungs "HELP, someone give me a gun or call the cops! I'm fighting for my life and all I've got is a stinking knife! Help!!!
3) If we take out the sentry from behind, aren't we going backward from our objective? The sentry can't be that good if I'm behind him, so leave the looser there.
4) Why get messy with a knife instead of shooting the sentry (who I still don't know why we have to kill) from a couple hundred yards?

 

[KriegHund]

We learn knife techniques in my karate class.

For the most part they involve trapping the arm, breaking it, and generally doing a lot of damage in a short amount if time.

Another one involves a swift block, step to the left and a kick. From there one would generally run.....

 

[WT]

For details see Fire from the Forest: The SAS Brigade in France, 1944 (Cassell Military Paperbacks).

They recommend 2 soldiers are needed to take out a sentry with a knife.

 

[mattw]

I thought this thread was going to be something I might be able to use.. like knife fighting techniques...

I think I would get a good sleeper hold on him as to cut off his air supply so no screaming is heard, insert knife at an upward angle between the 4th and 3rd rib from the bottom (from behind) on the left side as to simultaneously puncture a lung and the heart.

 

[neoncowboy]

OK, I'll bite...

1) Why are we taking out a sentry?

We are trying to escape from behind enemy lines, having been captured and held by the bad guys (foreign invaders, blue helmets, bATF...whoever). We've managed to get out of the holding cell we were in and now have to evacuate the facility perimeter without being caught. This sentry is between us and getting away and has to be taken down.

2) Why do we have to be quiet? If I ever need to use a knife, I'm going to be yelling at the top of my lungs "HELP, someone give me a gun or call the cops! I'm fighting for my life and all I've got is a stinking knife! Help!!!

Not if you wanted to evade and escape.

3) If we take out the sentry from behind, aren't we going backward from our objective? The sentry can't be that good if I'm behind him, so leave the looser there.

He's watching closely our only way out...or our best chance at obtaining better weapons...or a doorway we need to use...or the vehicle we're trying to capture...or the ladies cellblock...

4) Why get messy with a knife instead of shooting the sentry (who I still don't know why we have to kill) from a couple hundred yards?

I've been imprisoned. I don't have any weapons except a hand fashioned knife...or maybe it's the knife I took from the kitchen...or found somewhere. Point is, we have a knife...but not a gun.

How was that?

 

[hso]

Never done, read lots on it, talked to people I trust who have been there to do/see it.

Break the neck or pith the brain, but throat cutting is not a guarantee of killing someone silently and immediately.

 

[Jim March]

Then there's the Ghurka method:

1) Sneak up with Khukuri...

2) Come ON, do I need to spell it out?

3) OK, split his head like a ripe watermelon .

 

[bad LT]

Don't piss off a Gurka

 

[cracked butt]

Ok, this is hollywood but...

I saw an old WWII movie about a bunch of comandos, can't remember the name of the movie. The trainer taught his commandos to stab upward up underneath the back of the ribcage and twist the knife. He said something like "You do this to a kidney and it hurts so bad the man will not be able to scream"

Having had a kidneystone once, it almost makes sense- I was completely incapacitated by a tiny blockage, I couldn't even begin to imagine the pain of being gored in a kidney.

 

[tuna]

Neoncowboy - thanks for the answers. At least it kinda makes sense, kinda.

Crackedbutt - Saw the same movie, I think it was "Gung Ho" (the first one, not the one about making cars)

 

[neoncowboy]

Neoncowboy - thanks for the answers. At least it kinda makes sense, kinda.

Note: I've never actually *done* this...just imagining, purely speculatively, situations where one might.

Tom Clancy insists that the throat cutting mess is very noisy. I would imagine it would be, given my experience seeing injuries to the trachea.

Good luck whatever you decide !

 

[SAW753]

I've taken some knife fight though the Army and I have continued to learn it in my civ life for the simple fact that for a long time it was a lot easier to carry a knife then it was to carry a gun and a whole like more legal and less suspective. I having learned from people that have been there done it, a throat cut is no garenty that the subject will be silent. We were told that the quickest and queitest way was to go for the brain stem at the soft part of the neck but we were also told that this while a sure quiet kill if done right it is REALLY hard to pull off right. A safer way is to not cut the throat open but to sever the vocal cords and at least one artery and to leave the knife in the open until the target has bleed out. This will also require that the target be silenced in some other means. Hand over mouth or whatever you have but be ready to keep YOUR mouth shut if target bites you.

 

[hillbilly]

Actually, with a Ghurka and his Khukri, the head is mostly likely to just come clean off the body, not just split open.

I've got a big bowie knife made by a local maker.

The blade is about 9 inches long and about 2.5 inches wide. It is similar to a Khukri in size and use, as far as I can tell.

With this blade, I can slice soda cans full of water in half so cleanly, that the top half flies, and the bottom half stays put with water still in it.

I can chop two soda cans full of water in half cleanly when they are stacked vertically.....yes, an overhand, top-down chop, and two cans split neatly in half.

I can do the same with two-liter soda bottles full of water, even two of them sitting next to each other.

I've got a video clip (that I can't figure out how to post to the board) of a friend's teenaged son having at a rack of pork ribs hanging from a little crossbeam.............We were testing weapons typically used in duels and fights in frontier Arkansas......flintlock pistols and bowie knives.

First, the young man stabs the ribs twice. The blade goes in so quickly that he almost punches the ribs off the crossbeam.

Then, with one slash, he slices the rack of ribs neatly in half with a big, wet "SNICK" sound. ( Watching the video clip makes me shudder and gives me a bad case of the "oogies" right in the pit of my stomach, as pig ribs probably act about like people ribs in those circumstances)

If you've got a big knife....I mean a real knife like a Khukri or a bowie, just sneak up behind, take aim at the head and neck, and hack away.

But be sure you've got goggles on.........Ewwwwwwwwwwwww...........

hillbilly

 

[dave3006]

Krieghund, have you ever tried "trapping" the arm or anything like a break on a resisting partner?

Hint: Fantasy. Won't work. Too complicated. He will cut you.

 

[Ozendorph]

There are actual scenarios where something like this may come into play...no need to pull out the enemy occupation/breaking out of military prison card. Obviously no one on this forum goes around slashing peoples throats on a regular basis, but at least giving thought to how to do it isn't a bad idea. Co

Consider a home invasion situation where the perpetrators are unaware you are in the house. Obviously escape and summoning help is your first choice, but if you are pinned in an interior room (ie bathroom or what-have-you) you may have cause to take a BG down quietly to make your egress. I know, "Diehard" and all that, but stranger things have happened in this world.

Anyway, I agree with the diaphram and kidney as targets. Reach up with the off-hand and either go rear-choke or smother the mouth...naturally they'll bring their arms up to pull your hand away, opening the torso for a stabbing attack.

All that being said, one has to wonder if any knife attack would be quicker/quieter/easier than a sharp blow to the back of the head with any random heavy object. At least for the untrained John-McClaine wannabe like myself

 

[Ozendorph]

"Krieghund, have you ever tried "trapping" the arm or anything like a break on a resisting partner?

Hint: Fantasy. Won't work. Too complicated. He will cut you."

1. Opponent has knife = you getting cut. It's just a matter of where. Even most head-in-the-clouds McDojo instructors will admit that.

2. Arm breaks (at the elbow) do work. Watch any number of jiu jitsu tournaments for evidence of this. It's about developing proper mechanics, sensitivity, and reflexes.

 

[cracked butt]

Some more anecdotal stuff...

I know of 3 hunters personally who have 'spined' a deer over the years while bowhunting and decided to cut the deer's throat. From all accounts, its noisy, its messy, and wasn't as fast as they had hoped, and none of them ever wanted to experience that again.

 

[Cosmoline]

Cutting the throat is a LOT toughter IRL that it is in the movies. As any surgeon will tell you, the skin on the human face and neck is very tough stuff. It is both strong and flexible, and has a way of bunching up to avoid being slashed through. A surgeon needs the sharpest of blades to get through it, and that's with a subject that's out of action on a table. Trying to cut someone's throat from behind is just nuts. The act of doing it instantly triggers the deepest fight/flight response, and as was pointed out you may end up losing fingers in the ensuing fight--not to mention giving your position away with all the screaming. You can certainly mangle the neck, and you might nick an artery or vein and cause death--but it won't always happen fast.

Bashing the head in or destroying it with a large axe or heavy knife would be a much safer bet. Piano wire also has its advantages, as it allows you to keep your hands safely behind the sentry and get plenty of leverage to torque down. He can grab at you, but he won't have much leverage and he won't be able to bite.

As far as I know, the throat is really only a viable target on the defensive, when you might smash the foe's throat with your fist. But that's when you're facing him.

 

[NMshooter]

If you want a good answer check out Rex Applegate's Kill or Get Killed .

 

[hillbilly]

Even better than a bowie or a Khukri would be a tomahawk!

WHACK!

hillbilly