Lasers on your CCW?

[David007]

i think understand the therory:
you're in a situation where you draw your CCW. turn on the laser to aim instead of relying on the gun sights.

1) How much more effective is having a laser for aiming than the gun sights? (Both at range and in a defense situation)

2) How far away can you see the laser?

3) "Best" laser for a 9mm CCW? (say on a Glock 26 or Keltec P11)

4) How much do they cost? Is it worth it?

 

[Lateck]

I have a laser on my Ruger LCP and it's great.

I am looking into maybe getting the SIG light/laser combo for the rail on my P226/9's.
As for using them i takes out any guess work as to what your aiming at.

My .02,

Lateck,

 

[smince]

Lasers on your CCW?

NO!

 

[nalioth]

You'll still need to practice with your pistol. The laser isn't a substitute for training.

Also remember, the laser points both ways.

As far as distance, you shouldn't be planning on shooting your pistol as far as you can see the laser dot.


TBH, I think it's a crutch for those that think it's a substitute for practice. Those folks don't think about what's going to happen when the battery decides to stop powering the device, or if for some reason it stops working. This is where practice pays off, and if you practice - you don't need a laser.

 

[cbrgator]

I think in a self defense situation the laser would be a hindrance. I wouldn't want to be searching for a dot.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Being able to hit what you have the lazer pointed at, still comes down to correctly pulling the trigger...just as it does when using your sights.

The disadvantage of the lazer is that it does tell the other person where you are

 

[sig228]

Mixed Feelings

Mixed feelings here. While on one hand I think they are cool and fun for the range, on the other hand I think they would be a hindrance in a high stress self defense situation. I'm not an FBI statistics expert, but I believe most self defense confrontations occur within a 5 to 10 foot range. That's just "point and shoot" distance. No sights, no safeties, just draw and shoot. If you are threatened by a BG 25 yards out, then you have time to exit the situation. Most of you are not a cops, not on a SWAT team and certainly not an army sniper. (If you are, this discussion doesn't pertain to you). Lasers for those guys are a whole different discussion. Just my 2 cents, FWIW.

 

[JohnBiltz]

I have one on my Glock 26. Its an Armalaser that comes on when my finger goes in my trigger guard and yes it always works. http://www.armalaser.com/
A lot of complaints about the laser don't really make sense. Batteries don't just crap out. If you are practicing regularly then you notice when they are getting weak and change them. If it doesn't work you just use the sights. Outside in daylight they don't work, you will never see it. In bad light you may not be able to see your irons. I think if you are very very good in decent light you don't need it, most of us are not that good. So in that respect it is a crutch. Nothing wrong with a crutch if your leg is not up to full speed. I typically practice 20 rounds left handed, 50 rounds irons sights and 50 rounds with the laser. That is if I get out every week. I shoot faster with the laser but not as well. Frankly with the laser I'm not trying for a one inch group. I'm trying more for speed and good enough, I'm pretty happy with a 3 inch group for all ten rounds as fast as I can fire them. If I pull and have time I'm going to transition to the iron sights light permitting. My laser comes on for ten seconds when activated, it can be reactivated by removing my finger from my trigger and reapplying it. I never search for the red dot. The red dot is where I think I am pointing the gun or at least pretty close to it, just like when using irons its going to point where I am looking, hand and eye work the same with or without the laser. I'm not going to say a laser can't be knocked off target, its never happened to me in the year and half and 3,500 rounds since I've been carrying it and I do check for it every few days, turn the laser on look through the sights and they should be on the same thing. Its not either or, its another tool in the bag.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Lasers on your CCW?
i think understand the therory:
you're in a situation where you draw your CCW. turn on the laser to aim instead of relying on the gun sights.
[/

Much of what you read on the Internet about lasers is incorrect. It comes from the movies, so is almost totally wrong.
The laser is a excellent low light sighting device that (with KNOWLEDGE and practice) is very fast and accurate to use, even with your weak hand.
The problem is many people that buy then or try them do not how to use the sight properly. It's like anything else. The user must learn to use the sight properly AND practice with it.

Every carry or HD gun I own has a laser or laser light if the gun can be so equipped.
I have been using (good) gun mounted lasers and laser lights for years. I practice several evenings a week with lasers and laser lights (home range), so I do know what works and what doesn't.
In low light the laser or better yet the laser/light is king.
I don't own stock in these laser/light companies, so if they weren't the best thing going I would have stopped buying them thousands of dollars ago.

1) How much more effective is having a laser for aiming than the gun sights? (Both at range and in a defense situation)[/

Go to the range when it's too dark to see the gun's iron sights and if you can do this in low light than you do not need a laser.
Bottom line is I can do things with the laser that I can't begin to do with iron sights in daylight.

2) How far away can you see the laser?

The laser is a low light sighting device. In near dark you can see the typical gun laser 500 yards away or more, but the gun laser is meant for fairly close up fast, accurate shooting when you can't see the iron sights.

This is stretching it a little, 52 yards, but my HD distance is out to about 50 yards, with a handgun.
A Crimson Trace laser on a S&W J Frame. Two hands, standing. 52 yards.

3) "Best" laser for a 9mm CCW? (say on a Glock 26 or Keltec P11)

4) How much do they cost? Is it worth it?

A friend has a Crimson Trace laser on a G19 but I don't know who makes a (good) one for a P-11.
A good laser runs from under $200 to almost $300.
Don't waste your money on cheap ones. I've got a box full and all they are good for is playing with the cats.
I recently bought a LaserMax rail mounted laser (about $150). I was so unimpressed with it I gave it to a friend to play with.

Friends G19.





Call Crimson Trace and ask for their free DVD. It's a must see for laser users AND non laser users. It doesn't tell you everything but is a good start.
800 442 2406

 

[JohnBiltz]

That video is available on line at Crimson Trace in chapter segments.

 

[metalman8600]

Lasers should never be put on a combat gun since John Moses Browning never put a rail on the 1911!

Just kidding, I think Crimson Trace is a great tool and plan on getting one for my ccw. They make for very very quick and precise aiming. The dot is easy to see.

 

[IMTHDUKE]

From this HK


To this Sig



To this Colt

 

[KIX]

I'm not a fan of 'em for defensive purposes. Like was said above, they also go both ways.

However.... I have found them to be great training tools. It's interesting to see exactly what you do before, during and after you fire the gun.

I was thinking of getting one for my sons training pistol as it would help me visualize what he needs to work on.

But I don't think I'll get one on any of my carry guns unless it is already on there when I buy it used.

 

[M2 Carbine]

You'll still need to practice with your pistol. The laser isn't a substitute for training.

Absolutely true.

No matter the sighting system, iron sights or lasers, it takes knowledge and practice to be any good with it.
The big problem is, although it's said that about 70 percent of defense shootings take place in low light, I doubt that most shooters have done any live fire at night with their iron sights, laser, or any sighting system.
Heck, it's hard enough to find a place to shoot during the day, much less at night.

But it appears to me a shooter can do very well with the laser their first low light shoot.
This young lady being a good example.
After shooting a S&W J Frame for about an hour (her first time ever touching a gun) and shooting the 38 well, as it got dark I gave her a Crimson Trace equipped J Frame. After a quick briefing on laser shooting she had no problem at all keeping the hits very close to center.


This was funny. The second day three senior ladies shot using J Frames and the Ruger 22/45, as it got late I handed one my Streamlight TLR-2 laser/light equipped 22/45 and gave her a quick laser briefing.


I told her she had to shoot the gun out of the BG's hand. And she did.
I told her that one miss was not acceptable.

Also remember, the laser points both ways.

Not a problem.
If the laser is used properly, in most cases all the BG will see, if he sees the laser at all, is a flash of Red as he gets hit with a bullet.
Generally, the laser is not lit until your finger is on the trigger taking up the slack.
Shining the laser around like a flashlight is Hollywood stuff, unless you are going for intimidation.

TBH, I think it's a crutch for those that think it's a substitute for practice.

It could be, but that just goes back to poor training. Personally I don't allow new shooters to use the laser unless their iron sight shooting is up to par.

Those folks don't think about what's going to happen when the battery decides to stop powering the device, or if for some reason it stops working.

If they know what they are doing they also know how to handle battery (or laser) failure.
But, from what I have seen, a good laser is far more reliable than the gun it's on.
As it happened, the batteries started to die when I was shooting at that 52 yard steel target. I had plenty of time to shoot about 30 rounds before the laser got too weak to light the target.
Now on my defense guns I pay more attention to the batteries but on the practice guns I run the batteries until they die and I just replace them at the range.

This is where practice pays off, and if you practice - you don't need a laser

But who gets enough low light/dark live fire practice with night sights, etc?

That amount of practice isn't needed with a laser equipped gun. Basically, if there's enough light to identify the target you can hit it, fast and accurately while point shooting, while keeping your eyes focused on the threat.



.

 

[Carter]

For a ccw I don't think a laser is too practical. I carry a SR9c IWB. If I threw on a laser device it wouldn't fit in to any holster and would be a lot more bulky.

Now for a pocket pistol type weapon it could be more practical due to small sight picture and those lasers are generally more compact.

On a fullsized handgun or duty gun a laser would be fine. I wouldn't totally rely on it though.

 

[Zerodefect]

i think understand the therory:
you're in a situation where you draw your CCW. turn on the laser to aim instead of relying on the gun sights.

1) How much more effective is having a laser for aiming than the gun sights? (Both at range and in a defense situation)
It's not. The laser is far slower than a skilled shooter point shooting or even aimed shooting. It's primary purpose is the ability to stay behind cover, except for your arm, and aim without exposeing yourself.Like reaching aroound a 55gallon drum and shooting without alighning your head with your pistol.

Other than that it's a great training tool. I put a cheapo CTD laser on my Glock when I teach newbies how to shoot, it keeps them from muzzel sweeping everyone, and illistrates poor trigger control.


2) How far away can you see the laser?
Far, far away at night. Useless in the daylight, even if you can see it during the day, you can't see it when under pressure very well.


3) "Best" laser for a 9mm CCW? (say on a Glock 26 or Keltec P11)

4) How much do they cost? Is it worth it?

Not worth it.
An experienced shooter will hardly ever need it, and a newer shooter will devolope way too many training scars with one if they aren't careful. Lights and lasers are a twoday class by themselfs.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Now for a pocket pistol type weapon it could be more practical due to small sight picture and those lasers are generally more compact.

Due to the fact my Rugers are shooting a somewhat weak round I want every shot to count if I have to use it in a low light situation.
First thing I do when I get a new pocket pistol is buy a laser, if it's available for the gun.

 

[WardenWolf]

Lasers are a great substitute for that money burning a hole in your pocket. You just have a laser doing it instead. But seriously, there's better ways to spend your money.

 

[David007]

thx for all the replies.

$200-$300 huh? i could get a 2nd keltec p11. dual weld 12round p11's. one of those 24 bullets should hit the bad guy

for range shooting, how about duck taping one of those red laser lights pointers?

heck, will this $8 laser (with rail mounts) work for my Ruger Mark III 22/45?
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2546

 

[M2 Carbine]

$200-$300 huh? i could get a 2nd keltec p11. dual weld 12round p11's. one of those 24 bullets should hit the bad guy

Are you sure one of those 24 bullets is going to hit your target when it's like this?


And while you are hoping to hit the BG, if he's a knowledgeable laser, laser/light user, while you are hoping to hit him he may be doing this to you.


So if you buy another P-11 you have a second gun that's only at home shooting in the day light. You still haven't covered the major part of the day when most defense shootings take place. (I have a P-11, but no laser on it)
Around my place I suspect if I ever have to use a gun it will be after dark and I hope further than 25 yards.


You know, the way I talk up lasers you would think one of those laser companies would at least give me a hat.




.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Carrying a Mak may not be PC, but it gets the job done.

I've tried to get Crimson Trace to make laser grips for Makarovs (I have 16).
I really want a laser on a couple Maks for around the house and maybe a car/carry gun.

 

[yongxingfreesty]

It helps. My friend had been in a shoot and his night sigts didn't help him at all. He was trading off shots with the bad guy and before he knew it....all 15+1 rounds missed. All hit his garage and stuff inside. He said he sure wish he had that laser. He is a good target shooter on open sights, but no time to aim and take cover when SHTF

 

[KIX]

You can't pick your situations.... but man.... missed 15+1. Seems like there may be other issues there than just what a laser site would help.

Seems some night training might be in order.

I'm just sayin'.

 

[omegaflame]

I say as long as you generally carry a single gun, have the laser.

Would be massively helpful in low light conditions and when you're not able to aim well (injured, partially behind cover, running for your life...)

 

[WardenWolf]

I've tried to get Crimson Trace to make laser grips for Makarovs (I have 16).
I really want a laser on a couple Maks for around the house and maybe a car/carry gun.

My Makarov's out of commission until I get it refinished, though I primarily carry a Polish P-64. Heaven help anything that gets on the wrong end of that barrel. It's the cheapest gun I've got, and also the most accurate. I think the PA-63 I just picked up can be just as accurate, but the P-64 is just easier to shoot accurately for some reason.

If you were willing to drill / tap the frame and trim the grips, mounting a laser on a Makarov wouldn't be that hard. Of course, being such a Makarov fan, it would probably be an anathema to do that. It's definitely not something I'd do to one of my personal guns.