Lasers on your CCW?

[yongxingfreesty]

Hiding behind his car and just shooting towards garage. He was too scared to poke his head out for more than a second. That laser would ve lined up all his shots and could ve probably did the job in 4 shots. They are expensive, but hey it's not like you're buying one for every single pistol

 

[yongxingfreesty]

And he can't really prepare for low light situations here. The range we go to are lit up outdoors and in. He practices drawing from hip and all that stuff only to shoot at a torso 10yds away. That's easy on paper

 

[usp9]

Bottom line is I can do things with the laser that I can't begin to do with iron sights in daylight.

That says it all. The laser gives the user two major advantages. First, it allows for very quick, accurate unaimed shots...say from your car seat, from the hip or a close retention position. and second; that little point of light can be a deal breaker, a fight ender, all by itself because they scare the crap out of most people they're pointed at, (No Mas).

In low light, no light or broad daylight, a laser can be very helpful in putting rounds on target, and that's the whole point of the exercise.

Some of the designs are so small and unobtrusive that there's little reason not to use a laser if you want one. I think more and more new models will be coming out with a laser built in and will, in the near future, be as common as iron sights to most handguns.

 

[ultradoc]

I have a C.T. on my XD that is my CCW

 

[smince]

But who gets enough low light/dark live fire practice with night sights, etc?

Go to the range when it's too dark to see the gun's iron sights and if you can do this in low light than you do not need a laser.

I took a low-light class in 2008. 18 of the 20 attendee's had never shot at night/low light.

At 7 and 10 yds, with just ambient lighting (we could just barely make out the outline of the silhouette), most everyone was shooting groups centered on the target that rivaled (or bettered them in some cases) our groups in daylight. And no, they weren't using night sights either.

And these were all low-light novices.

 

[The Bushmaster]

If you have a laser on your carry gun make sure you practice with the installed sights as much as you practice with the laser.

One other thing. The laser is an excellent tool to improve trigger control when in front of the TV. !!JUST MAKE SURE THE GUN IS EMPTY AND NO MAGAZINE!!

My carry gun is a Kimber Ultra Crimsom Carry II. For low light where you can't see your sights the laser is quite handy when used properly. For old eyes that can see the bad guy, but can't see the sights the laser is "God Sent".

 

[WC145]

While not a substitute for training and practice, I think lasers have a place in CC and home defense guns in that they allow the "less skilled" to shoot quickly and accurately.

I have CT laser grips on my BUG, a S&W j-frame. The laser allows me to put rounds on target without having to line up the sights so I can make hits from any position, with either hand, as long as I can see and pull the trigger. IMO, that's some pretty valuable insurance should a situation ever devolve to the point that I need to use my BUG.

 

[armoredman]

I have Crimson Trace grips on my CZ P01. They are beyond easy to use, no fumbling for switches or pressure pads, just grip normally. I firmly believe they are a great additional tool, and with proper use, are quite helpful, especially, as noted before, in low light shooting.
As for battery life, mine went three years before needing battery change.

 

[David007]

for lasers not built into the frame, how often do you need to recalibrate the aim?

 

[WC145]

for lasers not built into the frame, how often do you need to recalibrate the aim?

I've been carrying and shooting my laser grip equipped snubby for over a year and a half and haven't had to change a thing. In fact, I'm still on the original set of batteries.

 

[TalonArms_R]

My two favorite arguments against using a laser:

#1 Iron sights are better, faster, more reliable, etc than a laser and if you practice/train with irons a laser is of no use.

Here is a pretty sobering statistic for you. According to an FBI study only about 20% of shots fired by SWAT personel hit the target. That is a one out of five hit ratio. Unless you are a SWAT officer it is a pretty safe bet you don't train as much as one. I know I don't so I will take any advantage I can get.

#2 A laser will give away your position and the bad guy will see you! That thing is a bullet magnet!

Guess what Sherlock. The bad guy already knew where you were when he decided to attack you! Unless you are the bad guy, you are not giving anything away.

#2 Part B What if a bad guy breaks in my house/bunker/office and I am searching for him and neither of us knows where the other one is? He will see the laser and ambush me!

This one leaves a little more room to debate. First things though, any defensive instructor will tell you to stay put, baracade yourself, call the cops and wait for the calvary. You only move if you need to get to someone who needs protection like your kids. If you do need to move, the question becomes who are you moving against? Vampire ninjas or some dumb crackhead who wants your TV? If it is not an assassin, flipping on a laser and a strobe light might just convince the average crackhead he is up against something more threatening than a tv show husband with a golf club! He is either going to beat feet, surrender or get shot. If you are dealing with home invaders making a dynamic entry you have bigger problems to deal with than debating a laser on your handgun. In this case you can debate the use of a light/laser on your shotgun or AR15!

Bottom line is that a laser is a tool. It can be used like an Aimpoint or EOTech to co-witness the ironsights of your pistol. If you learn to use it properly it can be an advantage

 

[David007]

I've been carrying and shooting my laser grip equipped snubby for over a year and a half and haven't had to change a thing. In fact, I'm still on the original set of batteries.

ahh.. i meant this:



the laser is attached to the barrel.

how often do you have to recalibrate the laser aim?

 

[M2 Carbine]

for lasers not built into the frame, how often do you need to recalibrate the aim?

Good lasers will hold Zero, no problem. Off hand I can't remember a good laser not holding Zero.

My primary HD laser/light is the Streamlight TLR-2.


When I'm shooting the pistol during the day I remove the Streamlight to keep it clean. Sticking out front of the barrel like that the lens and light case get pretty cruddy.

And when I'm using a bipod on the AR the laser is in the way, so I remove it.


When I replace the Streamlights the lasers are still dead on.


When I first install a laser I sight it in before shooting by just getting and holding a good iron sight, sight picture on a target 20-25 yards away. Then I adjust the laser dot so it appears to be sitting on the front sight as I hold the proper sight picture.
Or if the gun has a Red Dot installed, it's very easy to sight in the laser, I adjust the laser dot to the Red Dot

After shooting and fine tuning the laser I take note of where the laser dot is in relation to a good iron sight, sight picture. (or the Red Dot)
This way, at any time, without firing a shot I can check to see that the laser is still Zeroed.

 

[M2 Carbine]

The laser/ light on the shotgun has worked out well to.




I was impressed when I first put the laser/lights on the shotguns.
It is amazingly easy to quickly put the buckshot or slugs where ever you want.

#4 and 00 Buckshot from 17 yards.
The two slugs in the BG's butt and the small target from 26 yards.
All fired fast and from the hip.

 

[David007]

where did you get that barrel mount? How much?

and is the barrel mount the reason why the laser stays at zero?

 

[smince]

Here is a pretty sobering statistic for you. According to an FBI study only about 20% of shots fired by SWAT personel hit the target. That is a one out of five hit ratio. Unless you are a SWAT officer it is a pretty safe bet you don't train as much as one. I know I don't so I will take any advantage I can get.

So, the laser will give you an advantage if you don't practice as much as LE? SWAT cops use lights/lasers too and still get a 20% hit count...

 

[M2 Carbine]

where did you get that barrel mount? How much?

and is the barrel mount the reason why the laser stays at zero?

I picked the mount up at a gun show but Cheaper Than Dirt has them.
I don't like the side rails so I leave out the center section.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/SHT070-1.html

The mount holds tight, so is one reason the laser Zero does not change. Plus the Streamlight TLR-2 is a good piece of equipment.
I called Streamlight before installing the TLR-2 on the shotgun to make sure it would stand the shock. Streamlight said no problem.


Personally I think that hanging such stuff on guns is ugly, but it does do the job.

There's a lot of confidence in knowing that any (equipped) gun I grab is capable of quick, accurate hits 24 hours a day, if I do my part.

 

[possum]

in short, i use lasers for dry fire only( in the context of ccw, since that is what the thread is about) but that is it. watching the laser jump up and down slows me down, and i am much faster with the standard "iron sights". i think that they are a great training tool/ aid, but i do not use them for defensive purposes.

 

[WC145]

ahh.. i meant this:

the laser is attached to the barrel.

how often do you have to recalibrate the laser aim?

I don't know what you do with that thing, never seen a rig like that before. I don't hang anything off my guns barrels.

 

[speaksoftly]

I have a Crimson Trace on my M&P 40c and it's a pretty awesome setup. Firing from close range benefits a lot from a laser but having two sight systems on a gun means you have to practice double.

 

[HKGuns]

Nope, have never seen a need for one and figure it's just one more thing to have to fiddle with. In a low light situation I guess I'll just have to bet that I'm better than the average bad guy. If it is low enough light I may just run away and hide in the dark.

If he's in my house, where I obviously won't run, I have a tactical advantage right off the bat and am willing to bet my shooting skills are far better than his in daylight or darkness.

 

[Strahley]

No thanks, I'll use my sights

To me, lasers are only useful for dry fire practice, to make sure I'm keeping on target properly

 

[Double Naught Spy]

1) How much more effective is having a laser for aiming than the gun sights? (Both at range and in a defense situation)
It isn't more effective than sights per se, but more effective than when you can't use or your normal sights.

2) How far away can you see the laser?
I haven't seen a weapon laser that wasn't visible out at least 200 yards in low light which is well beyond what you will be using one for, more than likely. The dot does get bigger with distance. However, the real question isn't how far you can see the laser, but how well you can see the laser given the lighting conditions. In sunlight, it may be very difficult to see the laser 20 yards away on a non-reflective dark surface. Some are hard to see at 10 yards in such conditions.

Playing with the laser display at the gun show, I noticed that it was difficult to sometimes find the laser dot inside of 50 yards when pointing it waist level into the crowd. It really helps to know where the laser is in order to find it in visually complex situations or really bright light.

4) How much do they cost? Is it worth it?
Costs vary greatly depending on various configurations. Are lasers worth it? Whether they are actually cost effective is going to depend on your own perceptions and needs. I don't personally think they are for me and my situation, but many people feel very differently. A lot of accessories or aids may be useful in limited conditions and so might be considered to NOT be cost effective. Night sights are a classic example as they tend to have a fairly narrow usefulness range, but if you need them within that narrow range, they are potentially priceless.

Keep in mind that you are buying an accessory sighting item for a defensive pistol. Chances that you will need a defensive pistol are quite low and so the notion of cost effectiveness versus application isn't going to look too good. Chances that you will need the laser, or night sights, are even less. Of course, I haven't used most of my family safety gear either...which makes them cost ineffective as well. Perspective is critical.

 

[omegaflame]

Most of the lasers turn on when you grip the gun...

 

[ruger1228]

Anyone know of a company that makes laser sights for a Browning BDA 380?