Im glad that someone corrected this. Every time i see the "suckers" quote I know that it wasnt Barnum but i could never remember who it as. Barnum loved his customers and never would have classified them as "suckers" simply because he *always* delivered a good show, even if it wasnt what people expected it to be.
Lawsuit launched against Front Sight by members
- Thread starter Preacherman
- Start date
- Status
Im glad that someone corrected this. Every time i see the "suckers" quote I know that it wasnt Barnum but i could never remember who it as. Barnum loved his customers and never would have classified them as "suckers" simply because he *always* delivered a good show, even if it wasnt what people expected it to be.
Cosmoline
Member
444 said:
I wanted to take Frontsight courses, but they won't take my kind there. I really don't see what's so "pro 2nd" about their operation. It seems to be largely targetted at wealthy dot com types and Sillywood stars who have more money than sense. FS brings a mix of country club elitism and increasingly-high-priced levels of membership. Whether or not Scientology was the inspiration for charging vast sums for higher and higher levels of membership, the end result does nothign to further the RKBA. I already belong to a private gun club, with multiple extended ranges a club house, many training courses and machine guns. It costs me $120 per year, and nobody ever offers me a Silver or Gold membership for 50or 100 thousand.
Don't know if this link has been posted or not, and I don't want to read back over all the posts to find out. If the ex-chiropractor (isn't that enough to give one pause?) says that he's going to be handing out deeds to land on which he's secured a $6M mortgage, I'd sure like to know how he plans to pull that off.
The legalities will be worked out in court. Maybe somebody'll go to jail for fraud. Maybe not. Anybody who'd fork over $200,000 probably did so, believing the b.s. about the "safest community in the world, blah, blah, blah," and that a deed on a prime building lot would be forthcoming.
http://www.klastv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4085044&nav=168Y
The legalities will be worked out in court. Maybe somebody'll go to jail for fraud. Maybe not. Anybody who'd fork over $200,000 probably did so, believing the b.s. about the "safest community in the world, blah, blah, blah," and that a deed on a prime building lot would be forthcoming.
http://www.klastv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4085044&nav=168Y
"So it really isn't surprising that people who paid out hundreds of thousands of dollars relying upon promises like FREE ammunition in the machinegun classes would be somewhat disillusioned by later having to purchase ammunition for those classes. Or if they paid out hundreds of thousands of dollars relying on promises of FREE training thereafter with nothing more to pay EVER!!!, and then got dinged for $50/year background checks. Or if they paid out hundreds of thousands for a membership that was supposed to go up in value, and was a ONE TIME ONLY!!!! offering -- and then the offer was repeated, and repeated, and repeated again, lowering the value of the membership to near zero."
These are a few of the problems I have with Frontsight: I don't have a membership that has machine gun classes, but the ammo issue stood out like a sore thumb when I read it. The $50 background check was a big thing for me also. Your last statement there isn't correct. The same offer isn't offered over and over, the offers are different. However, you may have bought into this whole thing only to see another offer six months later that you like better than the one you bought for less money than you paid. I don't personally think that is a bad business practice, but it sucks never the less. It is really no different than buying something in a store and seeing something better on sale later.
The biggest issue I have with Frontsight has never been mentioned because none of you have ever been there. It is the fact that you are not allowed to carry a loaded handgun at Frontsight. Here is a guy that is supposed to be a champion of R2KBA. Here is a guy that says his training is second to none. Yet, they don't trust you to carry a loaded handgun at his facility. As a Nevada resident, I can legally carry a loaded handgun throughout the state, but not at Frontsight. To me, that is talking about of both sides of your mouth.
Piazza has been called an ego maniac. I personally think he is over the top in a lot of ways. But, he brings up a good point in one of his sales DVDs. Our traditional approach at saving our R2KBA is not working. We have been steadily losing our rights for close to 100 years. The tactics used by the NRA are proven failures. Piazza is trying new stuff that I think are a step in the right direction. Getting as many people trained as possible is one thing. That thing about the airline pilots is another: I don't know the details. He very well may have used a bait and switch tactic or maybe something changed after he made his inital statement. BUT, at least he was in there trying. Instead of hiding in the corner, instead of apoligizing (sp) for owning guns, he is very vocal and in your face about it. The answer isn't to infringe on the rights of American citizens (the policy enacted by our government following 9/11) it is to stand up for ourselves and defend ourselves with lethal force.
"It seems to be largely targetted at wealthy dot com types and Sillywood stars who have more money than sense. " Explain to me why it is a bad thing to have these people become solidly pro-gun. They traditionally haven't been. Is it possible that having influential people who have the eye and ear of the media on our side is a very good thing; instead of them being our very vocal enemies ? This is exactly the type of thinking that I think is very postive for our cause. Who knows if it will work in the end, but what we are doing now definitely isn't working. Somone is thinking outside the NRA box and I for one am happy to see it.
This thread isn't about the training, that is obvious. It is obviously a personal attack against the man. Again, he has his faults, but he also has a number of very postitive aspects of his life and I don't think we should overlook them in our mob mentality to disgrace his name. A lot of people don't like the man. A lot of people just buy into the mob mentality. A lot of people who otherwise might get good solid firearms training might not do it because of threads like this. IMO, we are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
These are a few of the problems I have with Frontsight: I don't have a membership that has machine gun classes, but the ammo issue stood out like a sore thumb when I read it. The $50 background check was a big thing for me also. Your last statement there isn't correct. The same offer isn't offered over and over, the offers are different. However, you may have bought into this whole thing only to see another offer six months later that you like better than the one you bought for less money than you paid. I don't personally think that is a bad business practice, but it sucks never the less. It is really no different than buying something in a store and seeing something better on sale later.
The biggest issue I have with Frontsight has never been mentioned because none of you have ever been there. It is the fact that you are not allowed to carry a loaded handgun at Frontsight. Here is a guy that is supposed to be a champion of R2KBA. Here is a guy that says his training is second to none. Yet, they don't trust you to carry a loaded handgun at his facility. As a Nevada resident, I can legally carry a loaded handgun throughout the state, but not at Frontsight. To me, that is talking about of both sides of your mouth.
Piazza has been called an ego maniac. I personally think he is over the top in a lot of ways. But, he brings up a good point in one of his sales DVDs. Our traditional approach at saving our R2KBA is not working. We have been steadily losing our rights for close to 100 years. The tactics used by the NRA are proven failures. Piazza is trying new stuff that I think are a step in the right direction. Getting as many people trained as possible is one thing. That thing about the airline pilots is another: I don't know the details. He very well may have used a bait and switch tactic or maybe something changed after he made his inital statement. BUT, at least he was in there trying. Instead of hiding in the corner, instead of apoligizing (sp) for owning guns, he is very vocal and in your face about it. The answer isn't to infringe on the rights of American citizens (the policy enacted by our government following 9/11) it is to stand up for ourselves and defend ourselves with lethal force.
"It seems to be largely targetted at wealthy dot com types and Sillywood stars who have more money than sense. " Explain to me why it is a bad thing to have these people become solidly pro-gun. They traditionally haven't been. Is it possible that having influential people who have the eye and ear of the media on our side is a very good thing; instead of them being our very vocal enemies ? This is exactly the type of thinking that I think is very postive for our cause. Who knows if it will work in the end, but what we are doing now definitely isn't working. Somone is thinking outside the NRA box and I for one am happy to see it.
This thread isn't about the training, that is obvious. It is obviously a personal attack against the man. Again, he has his faults, but he also has a number of very postitive aspects of his life and I don't think we should overlook them in our mob mentality to disgrace his name. A lot of people don't like the man. A lot of people just buy into the mob mentality. A lot of people who otherwise might get good solid firearms training might not do it because of threads like this. IMO, we are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Cosmoline
Member
Wow--the land is already encumbered? Should have guessed that. Everything about this operation fails my smell test. Opening up a site in Alaska with the promise of training for Alaskans, then refusing to let any actual Alaskans take the courses--that was the first sign I had. Selling the promise of a legal title on land encumbered with a first deed of trust, then failing to actually develop anything? That smells VERY bad. It reminds me of a lot of infamous land schemes in Florida, where lots of swamps were sold on the promise that they would be developed. But even then actual deeds WERE delivered. In this case the poor saps didn't even get a piece of desert.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
i dont think it was said that bringing the 'self-proclaimed elites' and 'hollyweirdos' into the gun community is a bad thing. but keeping them seperate from the rest of us average joes, and telling us average joes that we are not good enough to be part of 'their' community doesnt sit well with us.
sometimes i dont know if i'm watching FrontSites antics or fox's 'the simple life'. gee, does paris and nicole REALLY know what its like to be a working stiff after spending a few days on a ranch doing chores in their designer clothing and full makeup? gee, do the 'elites' and 'sillyweirdos' really know what the gun community is like after attending FS and being pampered and primped by FS staff?
JohnBT
Member
"It is obviously a personal attack against the man."
No, it's about his actions. First you say we've never been there and don't know him and now you're saying we know him well enough to make personal attacks? No, it's about his actions. Stuff happens in the world and we discuss some of it - mostly the gun related stuff. It isn't personal because I don't care if he's a short, fat, ugly, bald, right-wing pulpit pounder or looks like Tom Cruise.
John
No, it's about his actions. First you say we've never been there and don't know him and now you're saying we know him well enough to make personal attacks? No, it's about his actions. Stuff happens in the world and we discuss some of it - mostly the gun related stuff. It isn't personal because I don't care if he's a short, fat, ugly, bald, right-wing pulpit pounder or looks like Tom Cruise.
John
"...and telling us average joes that we are not good enough to be part of 'their' community doesnt sit well with us."
So, when myself and thousands of others go there to train they are telling us that we arn't good enough to be part of their community ? That must make me one of the elite.
Come on, let's not start with the poor little old me stuff. The victim mentality that was so obvious in that other thread about Frontsight Alaska. We are better than that.
I may not agree with all this, but I am willing to admit that this thread has it's merits. But this victim mentality is ridiculous and childish.
Sorry if that is offense, I am not trying to be.
So, when myself and thousands of others go there to train they are telling us that we arn't good enough to be part of their community ? That must make me one of the elite.
Come on, let's not start with the poor little old me stuff. The victim mentality that was so obvious in that other thread about Frontsight Alaska. We are better than that.
I may not agree with all this, but I am willing to admit that this thread has it's merits. But this victim mentality is ridiculous and childish.
Sorry if that is offense, I am not trying to be.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
tell you what, 444, why dont you inquire about taking the courses up here at Front Sight Alaska. see if your membership gets you that 'privilege'.
in one post you seem to applaud that FS gives the rich elite the opportunity to get into the gun community. then you turn around and poke fun at those of us who are willing to pay to attend courses but have been turned down, citing a 'victim mentality'.
way to change the subject there. very mature.
here, let me make this easier for me and you. welcome to the ignore list.
in one post you seem to applaud that FS gives the rich elite the opportunity to get into the gun community. then you turn around and poke fun at those of us who are willing to pay to attend courses but have been turned down, citing a 'victim mentality'.
way to change the subject there. very mature.
here, let me make this easier for me and you. welcome to the ignore list.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
November 9th, 2005, 12:58 AM #43
444
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 6,604
"Sounds like you had better keep one hand on your wallet! "
No, actually, I have been there before. I know what it is all about.
This is of course, unlike all but two or three of the people that have responded to this thread. The hallmark of this board is people talking out of their rear end because their mouth knows better. They don't know what they are talking about, but like to hear themselves talk, so they post.
=====================
Ouch. Hurts to get hoist with one's own petard...
lpl/nc
444
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 6,604
"Sounds like you had better keep one hand on your wallet! "
No, actually, I have been there before. I know what it is all about.
This is of course, unlike all but two or three of the people that have responded to this thread. The hallmark of this board is people talking out of their rear end because their mouth knows better. They don't know what they are talking about, but like to hear themselves talk, so they post.
=====================
Ouch. Hurts to get hoist with one's own petard...
lpl/nc
countertop
Member
Have never been there, not a fan of scientology (though I tend to agree with them about psychiatry and the overzealous prescription of medicine), and don't know Piazza.
However, I do have a friend (a liberal friend) who lives in NY City (and works in the entertainment industry) and had never shot a gun before. He was in Vegas on business and got a bit bored of gaming and was looking for things to do. Ended up seeing the add for Front Sight and the opportunity to shoot full auto weapons and decided to jump on it. He loved the experience .
However, I do have a friend (a liberal friend) who lives in NY City (and works in the entertainment industry) and had never shot a gun before. He was in Vegas on business and got a bit bored of gaming and was looking for things to do. Ended up seeing the add for Front Sight and the opportunity to shoot full auto weapons and decided to jump on it. He loved the experience .
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I was given a 2-day Defensive Handgun course there by a local organization as an inducement to get me to give a talk to that organization.
I'm an instructor myself and I found their instructors to be uniformly excellent. I was impressed with the variety of courses and the volume and diversity of the students. The sales pitch didn't seem particularly high pressure.
I was disappointed that the resort community hadn't started to materialize.
As someone who studies business successes and failures, my inclination is to view Piazza (who shook my hand at the SHOT show ~8 years ago but that's the only time i've ever seen him) as a man with a BIG dream who has encountered the inevitable potholes along the road to achieving that dream.
Businesses have problems and investors lose money far more often from misjudging conditions than from fraud.
I find it hard to imagine anyone planning a premeditated scam that has the unusual side effect of generating tens of thousands of satisfied customers who feel they got great training at an attractive price, and keep coming back. A thousand or two dollars for the right to take "skill builder" courses over and over strikes me as a good deal for a serious gun guy. Take a few courses and you've gotten more than your money's worth, even if they then go bankrupt.
I can't imagine being willing to spend $100K-$200K on a "building lot" in a desert that didn't yet have roads and water without strong legal protection such as money held in escrow, full refund if not buildable by X date, etc.
Anyone know the number of people who ponied up six figures?
444, your posts have been very informative.
Just edited: Just read the legal documents and in the securities industry we're not allowed to do things like this. Pages 8-15 were particularly eye-opening. http://www.frontsightlitigation.com/documents/ComplaintWS.pdf
JR
I'm an instructor myself and I found their instructors to be uniformly excellent. I was impressed with the variety of courses and the volume and diversity of the students. The sales pitch didn't seem particularly high pressure.
I was disappointed that the resort community hadn't started to materialize.
As someone who studies business successes and failures, my inclination is to view Piazza (who shook my hand at the SHOT show ~8 years ago but that's the only time i've ever seen him) as a man with a BIG dream who has encountered the inevitable potholes along the road to achieving that dream.
Businesses have problems and investors lose money far more often from misjudging conditions than from fraud.
I find it hard to imagine anyone planning a premeditated scam that has the unusual side effect of generating tens of thousands of satisfied customers who feel they got great training at an attractive price, and keep coming back. A thousand or two dollars for the right to take "skill builder" courses over and over strikes me as a good deal for a serious gun guy. Take a few courses and you've gotten more than your money's worth, even if they then go bankrupt.
I can't imagine being willing to spend $100K-$200K on a "building lot" in a desert that didn't yet have roads and water without strong legal protection such as money held in escrow, full refund if not buildable by X date, etc.
Anyone know the number of people who ponied up six figures?
444, your posts have been very informative.
Just edited: Just read the legal documents and in the securities industry we're not allowed to do things like this. Pages 8-15 were particularly eye-opening. http://www.frontsightlitigation.com/documents/ComplaintWS.pdf
JR
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Cosmoline
Member
44 said:
You're confusing the victim mentality with the po'd Cosmoline mentality. If FS wanted to open a members-only retreat up here, they should have done it. Many people have exclusive lodges and resorts squirreled away in the bush. I don't care about that. What makes me angry is that their website and the press reports all made it appear as though for a set per-class fee anyone could go down there and get training. I thought it was great, but the response I got when I tried to register was nothing short of "****." Why the devil did they go to the trouble of setting up a website with a class schedule and NOTHING about it being restricted to Silver or Gold members or whatnot? I don't like having my chain jerked.
The more I looked into how FS is organized and run, the fishier the smell got. This latest episode is just the last dead chum on the heap. The RKBA movement doesn't need "friends" who dupe people into spending $200,000 on what ammounts to a lot of hot Nevada air.
Well Cosmo, per your request, I called FS and my membership allows me to take classes in Alaska. I guess I would ask if you bought a membership and whether you bought it for FS Alaska. Hmmm, no? Funny how that works.
Not to wind you up to much, I think the property is being developed and a limited-time membership offer was made to existing members. As I recall, it was only offered one time at the initial purchase of the property. My guess is when it is further developed and ready for "prime time", it will be promoted and more generally available. I think it ends up being a focus and resource issue at the present time. I think of it as a pilot program currently.
Part of what supports that is the lack of promotional programs around the Alaska property. There is a reason it is not actively promoted. I think you will agree that it is not due a lack of promotional ideas that the FS management could generate.
Not to wind you up to much, I think the property is being developed and a limited-time membership offer was made to existing members. As I recall, it was only offered one time at the initial purchase of the property. My guess is when it is further developed and ready for "prime time", it will be promoted and more generally available. I think it ends up being a focus and resource issue at the present time. I think of it as a pilot program currently.
Part of what supports that is the lack of promotional programs around the Alaska property. There is a reason it is not actively promoted. I think you will agree that it is not due a lack of promotional ideas that the FS management could generate.
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madmike
Member
AAshooter said:
That appears to be what he said.
"Yes, you're a member, but not THAT KIND of member. That costs extra, unless you enrolled in this time frame at this location. Anyway, it's not finished yet, but will be Real Soon Now. Then we'll offer a discount so you can upgrade your membership for this other facility."
Nah, I ain't spending money there. For less than that I can FLY a friend who's an instructor and Blackwater contractor out here and use the Camp Atterbury range for free for as many 8 hour days as we like. I'll spring for the ammo and food and put him up in a hotel and still come out ahead. And I'll cook the hickory smoked brown sugar and Frank's sauce ribs.
Cosmoline
Member
AAshooter said:
They told me the memberships in FS ALaska had been offered to existing FS members, and that I could not become one of those members. I would have had to have been a FS member of a high level already in Nevada. This sounds like what they told you also, only since you were a FS Nevada member already you had a chance to get a membership up here.
I'm not holding my breath. How much did they ask you to spend for one of these FS Alaska "opportunities"?
Cosmoline said:
As I recall,the cost depended on your level. Seems like it started around $1000 and went up to a few thousand to have the same rights at the Alaska facility. It has been a while so I don't recall the details. It was a pretty minimal upgrade fee given the cost of the memberships at the time.
In talking to the people that have attended training up there, they love it. A great setting, small class size and many of the better instructors. Some report having 1:1 classes and an amazing chance to improve their skills through individualized instruction. Sounds like some of the earlier Vegas classes.
Not to mention some great hunting and fishing opportunities in your spare time.
madmike
Member
My buddy from Blackwater and Tactical Shooting said he left Front Sight the first day, totally unimpressed. He describes it as "So-so for beginners."
Now, granted, he's a highly trained professional.
But he's also a highly trained professional.
If I'd be leery of the marketing I've heard of, I'd certainly take his comments as a clincher. I've got a moderate amount of training and experience. Doesn't sound like something I'd pony up a couple of grand for.
Now, granted, he's a highly trained professional.
But he's also a highly trained professional.
If I'd be leery of the marketing I've heard of, I'd certainly take his comments as a clincher. I've got a moderate amount of training and experience. Doesn't sound like something I'd pony up a couple of grand for.
" Hurts to get hoisted with one's own petard..."
Initially it had me all broken up, deep down inside.
Then I realized that I didn't even know what a petard was or why anyone was hoisting anything with my petard. If anything is going to be hoisted by my petard, I sure as hell am going to be the first one to know about it. Good people have their petard covered by a fig leaf or at least their drawers. I grant you that hoisting anything with our petard is going to hurt. You probably would go cross-eyed. And they would stay that way.
But before this goes any further, we don't know each other well enough to talk about my petard. I am not into that stuff with men. This is a don't ask, don't tell subject. You don't ask about my petard and I won't tell you about my petard. You want to hoist something, you find yourself a rope. If you get a couple pullys, I can show you how to set up a 4:1 mechanical advantage.
And that's all I'm going to say about that.
Initially it had me all broken up, deep down inside.
Then I realized that I didn't even know what a petard was or why anyone was hoisting anything with my petard. If anything is going to be hoisted by my petard, I sure as hell am going to be the first one to know about it. Good people have their petard covered by a fig leaf or at least their drawers. I grant you that hoisting anything with our petard is going to hurt. You probably would go cross-eyed. And they would stay that way.
But before this goes any further, we don't know each other well enough to talk about my petard. I am not into that stuff with men. This is a don't ask, don't tell subject. You don't ask about my petard and I won't tell you about my petard. You want to hoist something, you find yourself a rope. If you get a couple pullys, I can show you how to set up a 4:1 mechanical advantage.
And that's all I'm going to say about that.
Strings
Member
444... I'm sending you a bill for a new keyboard!
And you just keep your petard to yourself...
And you just keep your petard to yourself...
BluesBear
member
As I recall from that other long ago thread, Cosmoline had inquired about Front Sight Alaska and was told he had to be a member to use it.
I seem to recall that he then asked a question that could be summed up as, "Okay, how much is a membership?"
And was then told something to the effect of, "Sorry we do not sell memberships to people who live in Alaska."
That would mean thy do not sell memberships of any kind to people who live in Alaska.
Now this sends up several red flags to me.
So I decide to take a few wild guesses as to why this policy of discrimination was in place.
#1)Money? Doesn't Alaska use the same currency as the lower 48?
#2)Kickbacks? Perhaps there is a requirement that members stay at a certain hotel or lodge while attending? So? Alaska is a big place, most Alaska members wouldn't want to communte each day anyway.
and my favorite wild guess
#3)Cost of Operations? Perhaps they figure that if people from Alaska become members that they might actually want to attend classes there!
That they might actually show up and expect a tangable experience?
It's easy to promote a great second location when the fine print has so many conditions that very few members will want to incurr all of the extra expenses to attend. And what makes anyone think that the secondary facilities in Alaska will be any better than the primary facility in Nevada?
Hell's Bells™ if they don't have the funds to build real restrooms and classrooms in Nevada what makes anyone think they have the funds to build them in Alaska?
It's simple to offer a premieum perk when you know no one will actually use it.
And that seems to be a reoccuring theme with the Reverend Pizza.
Make people an offer that sounds too good to be true but then make sure that just a small part of it is so they don't get mad.
After all haven't we, as a whole, become a nation that has learned to accept just a little less than what we hoped for?
Anyone who has sat through a "free seminar" in "Ballroom F" at the local Marriot Hotel has seen these marketing ploys.
It's the same stuff they teach in the Marketing 101½ class at Alfred E. Newman Career College.
I seem to recall that he then asked a question that could be summed up as, "Okay, how much is a membership?"
And was then told something to the effect of, "Sorry we do not sell memberships to people who live in Alaska."
That would mean thy do not sell memberships of any kind to people who live in Alaska.
Now this sends up several red flags to me.
So I decide to take a few wild guesses as to why this policy of discrimination was in place.
#1)Money? Doesn't Alaska use the same currency as the lower 48?
#2)Kickbacks? Perhaps there is a requirement that members stay at a certain hotel or lodge while attending? So? Alaska is a big place, most Alaska members wouldn't want to communte each day anyway.
and my favorite wild guess
#3)Cost of Operations? Perhaps they figure that if people from Alaska become members that they might actually want to attend classes there!
That they might actually show up and expect a tangable experience?
It's easy to promote a great second location when the fine print has so many conditions that very few members will want to incurr all of the extra expenses to attend. And what makes anyone think that the secondary facilities in Alaska will be any better than the primary facility in Nevada?
Hell's Bells™ if they don't have the funds to build real restrooms and classrooms in Nevada what makes anyone think they have the funds to build them in Alaska?
It's simple to offer a premieum perk when you know no one will actually use it.
And that seems to be a reoccuring theme with the Reverend Pizza.
Make people an offer that sounds too good to be true but then make sure that just a small part of it is so they don't get mad.
After all haven't we, as a whole, become a nation that has learned to accept just a little less than what we hoped for?
Anyone who has sat through a "free seminar" in "Ballroom F" at the local Marriot Hotel has seen these marketing ploys.
It's the same stuff they teach in the Marketing 101½ class at Alfred E. Newman Career College.
BluesBear
member
Kudos to Lee Lapin for using a phrase out of my playbook.
I have oftern used it when engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Main Entry: pe·****
Pronunciation: p&-'tär(d) - Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from peter to break wind, from pet expulsion of intestinal gas, from Latin peditum, from neuter of peditus, past participle of pedere to break wind; akin to Greek bdein to break wind
1 : a case containing an explosive to break down a door or gate or breach a wall
2 : a firework that explodes with a loud report
But the out of context use of the principal words by another member were even funnier.
As if a leaky container of intestinal gas is something that could ever be kept secret even with a fig leaf.
Main Entry: hoise
Pronunciation: 'hoiz - Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): hoised /'hoizd/; or hoist /'hoist/; hois·ing /'hoi-zi[ng]/
Etymology: alteration of hysse to hoist, perhaps from Low German hissen
: HOIST
- hoist with one's own petard : victimized or hurt by one's own scheme
I have oftern used it when engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Main Entry: pe·****
Pronunciation: p&-'tär(d) - Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from peter to break wind, from pet expulsion of intestinal gas, from Latin peditum, from neuter of peditus, past participle of pedere to break wind; akin to Greek bdein to break wind
1 : a case containing an explosive to break down a door or gate or breach a wall
2 : a firework that explodes with a loud report
But the out of context use of the principal words by another member were even funnier.
As if a leaky container of intestinal gas is something that could ever be kept secret even with a fig leaf.
Main Entry: hoise
Pronunciation: 'hoiz - Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): hoised /'hoizd/; or hoist /'hoist/; hois·ing /'hoi-zi[ng]/
Etymology: alteration of hysse to hoist, perhaps from Low German hissen
: HOIST
- hoist with one's own petard : victimized or hurt by one's own scheme
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cliffstanc
Member
So, I'm a little lost - wasn't there a High Road around here somewhere?
Maybe some of you senior members could point the way for me....
- Cliff
Maybe some of you senior members could point the way for me....
- Cliff
madmike
Member
cliffstanc said:
I believe that refers to being polite with each other. Criticizing an outfit that has allegations of dishonesty and incompetence is "debate." Most of the debate has been polite.
- Status
