Lee Six Pack Pro rips extraction grooves resizing 9x19

[Blue68f100]

I've noticed that cleaning the sizing ring (carbide or TiNi) on straight wall pistol sizing dies makes a difference. I think its more prevalent when we use lube on them. Thinking some dirt and debree is collecting on the carbide ring increasing friction. I clean all of my sizing dies prior to use.

 

[LiveLife]

20 G.F.L casings ... I cleaned the resizing die ... and ran these cases through the resizing die ... mounted in my single stage press and they put up about 1/10th of the resistance that the best of the previous resizing session did.

So I take it that shell holder in the single stage did not rip the rim of GFL cases using the cleaned resizing die.

If GFL cases are not ripping the rim in SPP with cleaned resizing die, then you need to check Fiocchi cases again to see if rim is ripping with cleaned die.

 

[Wezzli]

So I take it that shell holder in the single stage did not rip the rim of GFL cases using the cleaned resizing die.

If GFL cases are not ripping the rim in SPP with cleaned resizing die, then you need to check Fiocchi cases again to see if rim is ripping with cleaned die.

Sorry, i might have been using the labels interchangably, but G.F.L is Fiocchi.

I had extraction groove failures on my Six Pack press, so i moved the resizing die to my single stage press with the reasoning that the shell holders for the single stage press are tighter and there is no reason for it to tilt and shear the extraction grooves. I then processed all the G.F.L (Fiocchi) cases so i didn't have any left to test further. During this session of resizing i got the feeling they were taking a bit too much force to resize, but it's the first time i resize 9x19 and they did not get damaged in this press so i went with it.

I found a magazine that had 15-20 rounds from the same batch, fired and turned them into empty cases. I tested half of the cases dry and half of them lubed, with negligible differences, but required alot less force than previous resizing.
I took out about the same amount of the few i successfully reloaded and fired to compare. I tested half of the reloaded and fired cases dry and half of them lubed with negligible differences, but required alot less force than previous resizing.

The only variables here is that i cleaned the resizing die and did not clean the cases, they were all as fired. I'm thinking either dirt, soot and so on acts like a lubricant or there was something inside of the resizing die increasing friction, but the contradiction here would be that dirt/soot on a case would lubricate but dirt/soot in the resizing die would add friction.

 

[LiveLife]

RCBS carbide dies ... The only variables here is that i cleaned the resizing die and did not clean the cases, they were all as fired. I'm thinking either dirt, soot and so on acts like a lubricant or there was something inside of the resizing die increasing friction, but the contradiction here would be that dirt/soot on a case would lubricate but dirt/soot in the resizing die would add friction.

Sorry, i might have been using the labels interchangably, but G.F.L is Fiocchi

Well, G.F.L. headstamp brass I do have.

These are wet tumbled brass as indicated by shiny inside.



I just resized bottom four cases in Six Pack Pro/Pro 6000 kit with Lee resizing die with tapered carbide sizer ring (Top five cases are unresized). No extra ordinary resizing effort. Resized cases pulled out of die without drama and no ripped rim.

 

[JohnMc]

I've only been loading .45ACP on my Pro 6000 and haven't installed my 9mm plate yet. But something to be aware of is that Lee uses the same shell plate for 9mm and .40 S&W...so it might be a little loose around smaller cases

This made me look, there's a different shell plate for 10mm.
Given that 40 Short & Weak (just kidding) is just a bit different than shortened 10mm, a few thousandths here and there, this strikes me as odd.
Just curious, anybody know what's up?

 

[243winxb]

Lube press with Break Free CLP. The teflon helps.

Would seem the die & shell holder/plate are not in alignment?

 

[Wezzli]

Well, G.F.L. headstamp brass I do have.

These are wet tumbled brass as indicated by shiny inside.



I just resized bottom four cases in Six Pack Pro/Pro 6000 kit with Lee resizing die with tapered carbide sizer ring (Top five cases are unresized). No extra ordinary resizing effort. Resized cases pulled out of die without drama and no ripped rim.

Lube press with Break Free CLP. The teflon helps.

Would seem the die & shell holder/plate are not in alignment?

Precisely, which is my experience with the last few resizing tests.

The fact that the force required stayed the same going from progressive to single stage press rules out misalignment.

One potential culprit could be for example 2 boxes of 50 round out of 40 boxes bought that were somehow faulty or not up to quality standards. During cleaning i effectively mixed these 2 boxes in with the rest of the cases and this would explain why the last few i had in the magazine resized so easily

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I cleaned the resizing die with acetone and ran these cases through the resizing die dirty (only wiped off with a paper towel) mounted in my single stage press and they put up about 1/10th of the resistance that the best of the previous resizing session did. I have no idea why.

The carbon on the dirty cases is acting like a lube. You didn't say how you are cleaning your brass. if you are using a stainless steel pin rotary cleaner then you have to lube when they are done being cleaned.
The pins make the cases to clean and there is nothing left to act as a lube.
if your using a dry tumbler you can put a car wax in there with the media, something like New Finish or Turtle wax and that helps with the friction as well.

My self, I like New Finish in my dry media when I use it. .and then I still spray them with Hornady One Shot case lube before I resize them. I typically clean my cases with an ultrasonic cleaner.

 

[Wezzli]

The carbon on the dirty cases is acting like a lube. You didn't say how you are cleaning your brass. if you are using a stainless steel pin rotary cleaner then you have to lube when they are done being cleaned.
The pins make the cases to clean and there is nothing left to act as a lube.
if your using a dry tumbler you can put a car wax in there with the media, something like New Finish or Turtle wax and that helps with the friction as well.

My self, I like New Finish in my dry media when I use it. .and then I still spray them with Hornady One Shot case lube before I resize them. I typically clean my cases with an ultrasonic cleaner.

I wrote in the original post that i use a vibratory tumbler. I did however not mention that i use walnut shells as media. During the last cleaning run (.38 Special S&B) i noticed they were not really polishing so i put a bit of autosol in it (autosol is a polishing paste for metals) and they got alot prettier. I have however had zero issues with my .38 special resizing.

I have an ultrasonic cleaner at the company but i don't have any great means of drying them bwfore they get spotty so i refrain from using it.

 

[LiveLife]

One potential culprit could be for example 2 boxes of 50 round out of 40 boxes bought that were somehow faulty or not up to quality standards. During cleaning i effectively mixed these 2 boxes in with the rest of the cases and this would explain why the last few i had in the magazine resized so easily

If other brass you have resize without issue then it's not press issue rather brass issue.

 

[WeekendReloader]

Things that have solved difficult sizing of 9mm brass on my LEE PRO4000 (LEE's 4-station progressive press)

1. Clean the sizing die
2. Lube the cases
3. Bulge bust the brass. (This was a game changer)

I bought a bulge buster kit from LEE and use a LEE 9mmMAK Factory Crimp Die. Remove the internals of the die and push the clean & lubed brass through the die (all the way through and out the top). This resized the case all the way to the base to remove the effects of being fired in oversized chambers. The cases will be hard to press the base through the first time through the die since the 9mmMAK is slightly smaller than 9mm at the base.. They go through much easier the next.
I leave any residual lube on the cases and they run like butter through the press. I size on the press and have not had any issues. Every sizing stroke is smooth and consistent.

I use the LEE paste lube in a spray bottle mixed 1oz to 10oz of 70% rubbing alcohol. Shake it up well. It may take a while to dissolve, but it eventually does. A spritz or two on a pile of cases, mix around and let dry (I use a heat gun to dry quickly). It leaves a very thin wax-like coating on the brass. I do not clean it off after reloading.

 

[jmorris]

I just checked my shell plate and it is the #19S aswell, so it is the right one.

Reminds me of my Loadmaster project, any shell plate that works with 9mm and 40 s&w, isn't going to be a good fit on 9mm...

 

[GW Staar]

The one they sent me for 9mm allows .223 to wobble a lot.....was hoping it would work for both while I was testing .223 so I didn't have the change for the testing....not so much......and yes it's supposed to work for .40 too? So 19S Lee specs for 9mm and 40S&W and 4S for .223. Wonder if 9mm would go in the 45S better.....thinking I have both.....going to check.

UPDATE: Yes, I do have both.....and 9mm is just enough bigger than .223 (about as much as .40 is bigger than 9mm). and unfortunately 9mm will not go into 4S period. So we're stuck with 19S. Maybe Lee will reconsider......how about....19ES

 

[Wezzli]

A tighter shell plate would of course not be terrible, but at least with my issue, the shell plate is more of a symptom than a root cause

 

[lordpaxman]

I just checked my shell plate and it is the #19S aswell, so it is the right one. I did however quickly check with the G.F.L cases and some Selleri & Bacon cases and even though it was not a scientific test, i'm pretty sure the G.F.L cases were a less tight fit. This in turn is probably not the end of the world but it sure does not help if the cases require some force.

I reload a lot of range brass that includes GFL and CBC. It’s not on a Lee, but I don’t notice drastic differences in resizing force however finished rounds with a 147 bullet do tend to be slightly proud on a case gauge. I think they have a thicker brass sidewall, but they do function ok. Hope you get it figured out.

 

[Wezzli]

I reload a lot of range brass that includes GFL and CBC. It’s not on a Lee, but I don’t notice drastic differences in resizing force however finished rounds with a 147 bullet do tend to be slightly proud on a case gauge. I think they have a thicker brass sidewall, but they do function ok. Hope you get it figured out.

It's going to be a while before i find out for sure if i have solved the issue, since i already resized all of the brass (about 2000 cases) and i might shoot about 2000 rounds a year. However with the limited amount of testing i have been able to do since that, i'm quite sure i have the issues figured out.

I initially thought that slight variations in case quality and wall thickness could be likely reasons for my issues, but after having tried resizing 20 dirty G.F.L. cases side by side with 20 dirty S&B cases i am pretty sure this is negligible. At this point i'm convinced of the following:

The high base line of force required to resize my cases is because of the following:
1. Increased friction because of the state of cleanliness and polish of my cases.
2. Increased friction because of the lack of lubrication of my cases.
3. Increased friction because of resizing die coating (big maybe. also not because of dirt because this problem occurred within the first 50 cases resized).

The 1/5 to 1/10 cases requiring excessive force is because of the following:
1. A few of the cases are likely fired in different pistol.

I didn't think about it when i first started the thread, but i normally shoot with friends and at times they have used the same brand and calibre ammunition as i do. We don't spend alot of time making sure we pick up the actual cases that ejected from our own guns, we just make sure it's the right brand and that we pick up the same amount we fired, if we pick up cases. I would say at least 1/5 to 1/10 of the cases i cleaned and resized were fired in another pistol. I did notice at least once or twice that the cases with non-glock-struck primer were some of the cases that were tough to resize.

 

[Bartojc]

I load only 9mm on my 6000 with only mixed range brass and have never had an issue like you explain I know for a fact that I have had GFL and/or Fiocci brass.

The only variables here is that i cleaned the resizing die and did not clean the cases, they were all as fired. I'm thinking either dirt, soot and so on acts like a lubricant or there was something inside of the resizing die increasing friction, but the contradiction here would be that dirt/soot on a case would lubricate but dirt/soot in the resizing die would add friction.

This to me is the only thing that makes sense. Its hard to me to believe that the dis was so durty that it caused enough friction to cause your issue, but after cleaning it seemed to get better. I'd hate to tell you how often I clean my sizing dies, but not often. If I were to have issues similar to yours cleaning would be the first thing I would do. You should not have to lube 9mm in cabide dies to make them work. Does it make things smoother ? Yes. Some people do lube 9mm, but you shouldn't NEED to if using carbide dies.

-Jeff

 

[Wezzli]

I load only 9mm on my 6000 with only mixed range brass and have never had an issue like you explain I know for a fact that I have had GFL and/or Fiocci brass.




This to me is the only thing that makes sense. Its hard to me to believe that the dis was so durty that it caused enough friction to cause your issue, but after cleaning it seemed to get better. I'd hate to tell you how often I clean my sizing dies, but not often. If I were to have issues similar to yours cleaning would be the first thing I would do. You should not have to lube 9mm in cabide dies to make them work. Does it make things smoother ? Yes. Some people do lube 9mm, but you shouldn't NEED to if using carbide dies.

-Jeff

Yeah, i doubt dirt in the dies was the issue. Like i wrote in my last post this issue started within the first 50 cases resized. So either it was delivered with premium dirt already in it, a coating of some sort or cleaning it did nothing and the soot on the cases was the lubricant

 

[jmorris]

The one they sent me for 9mm allows .223 to wobble a lot.

Because a .223 case is smaller than 9mm, on my brass sorter (by OD) .223 falls out with .380.

38 super falls out after 9mm but before 40.

Brass sorter

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