Well, i was away from a computer and ready to let the thread be, but I saw a couple of people getting passes for factual errors that set my teeth on edge:
CZ-75:
Don't forget that the "DEMOCRATIC" Party is the party of Jim Crow. Robert "KKK" Byrd is a Democrat. Harry S. Truman was in the Klan.
Uuummm . . . the Democrats used to be the conservative party. Remember "Dixiecrats" and Jessie Helms and Strom Thurmond and all that? It is like Republicans taking credit for Lincoln and Teddie Roosevelt - both liberals of the distant past. This is a thread about liberals. And as to membership in the KKK, this issue was pretty thoroughly thrashed out in the controversy over Justice Hugo Black. Membership was pretty much incidental in many places in the country and remember, Truman desegregated the Army (something else fought by conservatives).
Guess Nixon wasn't the one to establish the EPA then?
You are trying to give Nixon credit for the EPA? Wow! Actually, he tried to create a pro-industry with no powers to enforce environmental laws (Environmental Quality Council) but was so thoroughly criticized for it that he was shamed into signing the National Environmental Policy Act in 1970, which ultimately was responsible for creation of the EPA.
I hope you don't consider Klinton a "liberal" then, since he and Reno were first on the scene to attempt to expand these powers.
Actually, that was well under way during the 80s as part of the "War on Drugs" led by William Bennett. Plus, the Reagan-Bush years saw the federalization of many drug crimes that were properly under states' jurisdictions. But, I am no fan of the increase of police powers under Clinton, or Bush.
However, the most important point is that liberal groups like the ACLU are the ones fighting against such grotesque excesses. And they are not just putting out policy papers, they are there in court, and often winning .
And Dr. Jones, about the fight against the expansion of police powers:
I'm not sure on this one and I'm not going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Find me a conservative equivalent to the ACLU. It doesn't exist because conservatives are traditionally pro- law and order. They might talk vaguely about the rights of the citizens, but when the rubber hits the road, only the ACLU and like groups are getting cases to the Supreme Court.
Shaggy:
Yeah, it's not. And if the Dems are lying so blatently about guns and the use of guns and the lawful people who use guns and lying to everybody to get guns banned and to demonize lawful users of firearms.......this is an issue I know more about than any and they are just unbelievable on the gun issue.....
Imagine how wrong they are and how much they are lying about taxes, social security, medicare, welfare, education, defense spending, war on terror....pick your issue. I don't trust any body or any party who is so damn set on disarming the population. Think about it.
I think that the whole point of this thread is that thinking like that is overly generalistic and simply inaccurate. People on this thread have been agreeing and disagreeing about virtually every issue you listed yet they all agree in the RKBA. And incidentally, the logic simply does not follow.
I think Monkeyleg had it right,
If anyone considers himself a "gun-totin' liberal," then the best thing he can do is to come down hard on the local leaders of the party: the state Democrat party, the union stewards, and so on.
and hopefully gun control will wither as a cause, leaving us all at THR to talk about ballistics and holsters.