Looking to pick your brains a bit on a 45/70

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qajaq59

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I may have the opportunity to buy a Pedersoli 45/70 at a decent price. But to be honest, I know little about them. And I noticed in my Lyman cast manual that there are 3 types of loads for that caliber. Springfield, Winchester/Marlin, and Ruger. Where would the Pedersoli fall in that grouping? Or would that be stamped on the barrel somewhere?
And anything else you'd like to comment on with that caliber I'd be more then interested to read.

Thanks, Qajaq59
 
My GUESS would be the Springfield loads... those will be the lightest as they are tailored for the old trapdoors...

I know nothing about the Pedersoli (?)... just speaking on a hunch.
 
It is a Rolling Block. I haven't seen it yet. But when it was mentioned that caught my attention, because I always kind of wanted one.
 
I suspect you would have to limit your loads to Springfield pressures. To be sure, you can e-mail the company. One time I had inquired about pressure limits for their Kodiak double rifles and got a quick response.
 
Rolling block actions are generally stronger than the Trapdoor. Buffalo Bore rates rolling Blocks safe to use with their magnum 45-70. That being said you really should be using black powder to load for a "Sharps" rifle. Smokeless is all well and good but black powder is just more "right" for this style of rifle.
 
Pedersoli, being a manufacturer under Italian proof law, will only say that their .45-70s are suitable for loads at the SAAMI standard of 28,000 CUP maximum.

Not all data sources will give their pressure standards for "trapdoor", "lever action," and "Ruger" loads; you need the numbers. Hodgdon seems a bit confused, they show "trapdoor" maximum loads from 15,000 to 27,800 CUP. Speer "trapdoor" loads top out at 21,000 CUP, their "lever action" loads are apparently at the 28,000 CUP SAAMI maximum but they have a lot of cautions about what guns to shoot them in.

The maximum Hodgdon and Speer "trapdoor" loads will get you 1700+ fps with a 405 gr bullet. Ken Waters didn't have pressure test data so he put modern rolling blocks in his Group II and settled for 1600 fps. The gun would stand a bit more, but will you?
 
The Pedersoli RB isn't the best one to hot-rod. It's for guys who do the whole uber-accurate paper patched thing, often with real black powder charges. I've seen a few over the years at the ranges and the targets are WAAAY down the range. Good choice for winning cast matches with the right loads. Not sure how well it would shoot with modern jacketed bullets though.
 
Thanks guys.... Unfortunately it became academic. He sold it before I could get there. But the more I learn about the 45/70 the better off I'll be next time. It sounds like a very interesting caliber and I'm going to keep researching it.
 
If you want a single shot rifle to hot rod then find a used Ruger #1
The blackpowder replica cartridge rifles are best shot with fairly mild loads.
I use a lot of SR4756 which is a smokeless alternative to blackpowder and the pressures are kept in the -28,000 range with velocity of 11100-1300 fps.
 
If you can pick it up for a decent price you won't regret it. I have a Pedersoli Sharps that's a great shooter. I know a guy who has the Rolling Block and it's very accurate also. Pedersoli makes good barrels. Do yourself a favor and look into loading black powder, it's a hoot.
 
Should be fine with the mid-powered loads, expect recoil to be a stout push, but easily tolerable with the proper stance. I find it to be an enjoyable chambering to shoot (not to mention that it is an outstanding cartridge to load for), even with the stoutest of loads and moderate weight rifles.

:)
 
I have a Sharps type in .45-70. Mine loves 500 grain soft lead bullets over 65 grains of Swiss 3fG black powder.
 
Afy's got it. I have tried loading with 13 gr. of Trail boss and it shoots well, but it is a very muffled bang and does not do justice to the caliber. Like Afy, I now load my Pedersoli 45-70 up with 60-65 grains of real black powder under a 500 grain lead bullet and it is the perfect rifle to take the next time you go buffalo hunting. I stopped messing around with smokeless because I was concerned with the pressure issue and I figured that the guns were originally made to shoot black powder so that seemed the way to go for me. I use it for long range silhouette shooting and it is an extremely accurate long range rifle. The 45-70 is fun to shoot at long ranges, however the bullet drop is significant. It is not a real flat shooter...but a very fun rifle to shoot non the less!
 
Re: Blackpowder loads for the 45-70

Quajaq59 it might be a good idea to mention that when using black powder it is measured out using grains by volume in a brass measuring tube and not weighed out on your powder scale. This might be common knowledge....but just in case.
 
I prefer to go by the instructions of the Sharps Rifle Co. ca 1876: "For fine shooting, powder should be weighed on a scale." That's what the AAA class shooter who got me started does. But if you are getting good hits with one of those brass things, I guess you have your technique down pat.
 
Rolling blocks are great rifles within their limitations. I have a couple and am going to build another one but they are not a strong action. And for what they are intended, they don't need to be. Trapddor loads will be accurate and hit harder than needed on this continent. With the right bullet, long range shooting is not only possible but a lot of fun. Choose another bullet and hunting becomes as enjoyable as it gets. The 45-70 is an easy cartridge to load for, just use black powder. Weigh it out to find an accurate load. Then build a measure to be able to load them more quickly then weighing each charge. Black powder was originally weighed out. Volume measurement was a convenience used to make it easier in the field.

I use volume for most of my loads but when I was trying to get in the winners circle, I weighed each charge. And a lot of other voodoo...
 
Buffalo Bore rates rolling Blocks safe to use with their magnum 45-70.
Click to expand...
If Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore says they're strong enough for their higher pressure loads, then there is no good reason not to use them. If that's what you want to do. This is a case where it pays for the shooter to know the limitations of his particular make and model. Rather than relying on regurgitated lawyer nonsense.
 
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A buddy of mine bought one about 3 mo. ago, what a shooter! Don't remember the exact weight of the bullet, 425 gr?, using black powder and the brass drop tube. First 2 shots were off hand, and hit the black on a reg. target @ 100 yds., needless to say, he was impressed! A beautiful piece, the fit and finish are extremely nice, and the extra box of sights is appealing too. I haven't shot it yet, he was still working up loads, but can't wait to get my turn dropping the hammer!

Jim Watson, my buddy weighs his powder on a scale also, just drops in the brass tube to get the charge all in the case.
 
I have a beautiful Pedersoli Quigley-style Sharps rifle chambered in .45-70.

I only shoot mild to medium power loads striving for 100 yard accuracy. My handloads consist of a 405 grain cast lead bullet over either 38.0 gr. Reloder-7 or 40.5 gr. IMR-3031.
 
my buddy weighs his powder on a scale also, just drops in the brass tube to get the charge all in the case.
Click to expand...

Oh, I do, too.
I use a powder measure that drops a little light, then trickle up to weight. People say that the half grain variation off the measure doesn't matter but I just don't trust it.

Then I drop tube the powder into the case. Then I start a wad and run the case through a compression die set so that seating the bullet brings it down on the wad with no air gap but with no great force applied that might distort a soft cast bullet.
 
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