M1 Garand Self Defense Rifle?

[wombat13]

Wrong M1 for self defense:



Right M1 for self defense:



Don

Is the second one a paratrooper model?

 

[mortablunt]

^ Yes, it is the paratrooper model.

 

[Cosmoline]

There is physically no way to carry a garand with ammunition loaded in it without one in the chamber without handling the gun in a dangerous manner or having a bolt over base malfunction.

I mean toted or stowed *safely* with one in the chamber. The only safety is a catch near your trigger finger. It's fine for combat, but in the middle of a dicey self defense situation when you cannot have an ND it's far from ideal. Not impossible to use, esp. if you're used to it. But not the best. It's in front of the trigger and pulls back in the same direction as the trigger. Plus it's not in visual sight, so you have to feel around with your finger--next to the trigger--to know if it's engaged or not!

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

When are you putting a gun on safe while under stress?

 

[USSR]

Is the second one a paratrooper model?

Yep, upgraded into the 21st Century with an EoTech sight. But any M1 Carbine model is hands-down better suited for a self defense role than a M1 Garand, and I have 3 Garands.

Don

 

[wombat13]

I mean toted or stowed *safely* with one in the chamber. The only safety is a catch near your trigger finger. It's fine for combat, but in the middle of a dicey self defense situation when you cannot have an ND it's far from ideal. Not impossible to use, esp. if you're used to it. But not the best. It's in front of the trigger and pulls back in the same direction as the trigger. Plus it's not in visual sight, so you have to feel around with your finger--next to the trigger--to know if it's engaged or not!

Wrong. You push the safety forward, away from the trigger to take it off. The safety is only inside the trigger guard while it is on.

That is, unless my particular Garand is different from all the others.

 

[dmazur]

There probably aren't a lot of WWII / Korean vets around who can attest to the Garand safety, but I haven't read about that as a problem the Garand had.

And, since Ruger's Mini-14 copied a lot of the Garand / M14 design, including the safety, I haven't read about that rifle having a problem with its safety, either.

As already said, you push the safety away from the trigger to disengage. It takes a little effort to do with the back of your index finger, but it can be done readily enough if you want the safety off. I think it might have been made relatively difficult to move on purpose...

As far as pulling the safety toward the trigger to engage, you can use your entire hand, sliding it down the rifle, if you are concerned about a finger slipping off the front edge of the trigger guard. Nothing gets near the trigger using this technique.

And, check the front edge of the trigger guard by "feel" to see if you can feel the safety. No sharp edge - nothing but smooth guard? Safety's on. Don't check inside the trigger guard. (Rule 3 )

 

[Welding Rod]

The safety catch is not the best design for this purpose, and it was not really designed to be toted or stowed with one in the chamber.

The Garand safety cams the hammer back off the hooks and then provides a positive restraint for the hammer. The beefy safety would have to fail and then the hammer hooks would have to fail too for the hammer to fall on a loaded round. Seems like a very safe system to me.

To another poster: The Garand can be loaded with up to 7 rounds in the magwell and be kept with an empty chamber.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

To another poster: The Garand can be loaded with up to 7 rounds in the magwell and be kept with an empty chamber.

you lose a round of capacity, and you have to do a lot of gyration to get the bolt to ride over the round.

just loading it is easier and safer.

 

[Cosmoline]

You push the safety forward, away from the trigger to take it off.

And you squeeze it back to engage it. The same basic motion as pulling a trigger, but slightly forward of the trigger. You don't find that a potential problem for someone who may not be as familiar with the firearm as you are? At three AM when someone is running around?

I would not call it defective or inherently dangerous, but it is designed for use during military conflicts not for home defense. For someone familiar with and comfortable with the platform I'm sure it's fine. But it's a point against the rifle for that purpose.

Not to mention the issues of Garand Thumb if you're fumbling around with a clip.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

If you're using a gun you're unfamiliar with for HD, you are doing something wrong.

 

[wombat13]

And you squeeze it back to engage it. The same basic motion as pulling a trigger, but slightly forward of the trigger. You don't find that a potential problem for someone who may not be as familiar with the firearm as you are? At three AM when someone is running around?

I would not call it defective or inherently dangerous, but it is designed for use during military conflicts not for home defense. For someone familiar with and comfortable with the platform I'm sure it's fine. But it's a point against the rifle for that purpose.

Not to mention the issues of Garand Thumb if you're fumbling around with a clip.

No I don't see a problem. If you are trying to put the safety on your hand is outside the trigger guard.

 

[dmazur]

The above post beat me to it -

You don't find that a potential problem for someone who may not be as familiar with the firearm as you are?

I don't have any firearms I'm not familiar with, and I would hope that someone planning a defensive response would also think about the wisdom of having a firearm for a "special" reason and never becoming familiar with it.

Given that level of preparedness, that same person wouldn't have to worry about how to use the safety, because he probably couldn't remember where he stashed the rifle. ( )

I believe the only valid argument I've encountered for "not familiar with the manual of arms" was some kind of justification for the Israeli draw. The way I remember the story, they had such an assortment of guns you couldn't be sure just what you were going to get, nor could you possibly become familiar with them all. So they decided on Condition 3 carry, and pull the slide back when you need to actually use it.

But a firearm that you get to select and practice with? No excuse for not being familiar with how to use it, in the dark, by feel.

 

[dmazur]

Not to mention the issues of Garand Thumb if you're fumbling around with a clip.

Garand Thumb occurs when someone is cleaning the rifle, or doing something rather military like an inspection procedure.

The bolt doesn't release until you remove pressure from the clip. When it does, it is busy carrying the round forward. There isn't room for your thumb...

Also, see above discussion on familiarity. If you are familiar with the Garand, there isn't any "fumbling" going on.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I don't like "Tankers" because their op-rod was never reengineered properly by the kitchen gunsmiths. I've a letter published in American Gunsmith (Jan 2012) that discusses the problems associated with the shortening of the barrel and op-rod. At least the Italians did it right with their BM-59 and reengineered it from ground up.

This curmudgeon's view on Tankers set aside, I think the M-1 beats a sharp pointy stick or shaking an angry fist, but it isn't my first choice. I want something lighter and easier to handle. The M-1 carbine fits the bill as does the Mini-14. However, any gun used in a shooting will be confiscated and held in storage until the home owner is cleared of criminal conduct. I'd rather use an SKS as they're cheaper (and I won't shed tears if it came back all scratched up from its stay in the evidence room).

There is a great letter in the April 2012 issue of American Rifleman. CW5 Charles Petrie, US Army, spoke with some German veterans of the Bulge. They laughed about the ping and said it was inaudible. Secondly, both sides used the ruse of working the action to induce their opponent to expose themselves and charge.

 

[Welding Rod]

To the original question, I would not choose a Garand for SD given the better choices out there, however I would feel completely confident in one as a SD weapon if that is what I had to use.

 

[1-12 INF (M)]

The problems with a shortened M1 are well documented here - if the M1 was designed to be short, John Garand would have designed it that way.
Lethal? You bet. But your bedroom isn't Normandy or Iwo Jima and the M1 is not optimized for that task.
Rest assured that nothing with two feet would be around to hear the 'ping', either.

 

[Obsidian]

As others have stated, a re-engineered M1 Rifle may not have the best reliability. Some folks say put 100 rounds though your SD weapon. Others say 250, 500, or 1000 to assure it will not malfunction. That's a lot of money on what is not well regarded to be a weapon that does not require a lot of puttering around with to make reliable.
And now as stated, yes it is better than loud words or a hope someone does not decide to harm you, but there are simply stated better tools for the job.

I love the M1 Rifle. Simply love it. If I had served in WW2 instead of Iraq I would have chose that rifle above all else for that conflict for going to battle with. However for today's tech there are far better options to be had for the same price range in my opinion. And this includes rifles, shotguns and handguns.

Again there just are better tools for the job for a multitude of reasons. There are going to be some that dispute this analogy I'm sure but you could pound a nail with a 10 pound sledge hammer. It will work, but there are better tools to do the job for -home- defense.

 

[opsman]

He may have what he calls a "tanker" M1, but as for using as a self defense rifle? I think he's full of it. The the two places where you can find more BS than the barnyard, the local bar, and a gun shop.

 

[Tim37]

its pretty dam hard to beat a pump shotgun for HD

 

[451 Detonics]

If you want to go short just have a Shuff conversion done...can even turn it into a magazine fed shorty...here is one compared to a M1 Carbine...