mexico..a third world country..??
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Brian Dale
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I concur. A great-uncle of mine told me once that he hadn't spoken any English until the fourth grade; they went to "Norwegian School" — it was operated and paid for by the Church. Once he was out of primary school, he got help from the older kids, the community and probably some teachers with the same ethnic background (hence, had grown up with Norwegian spoken at home).
Public schools were English-only. He ended up with a Ph.D. and a bunch of agricultural patents to his name.
I think that Spanish-language primary schools are a great idea. Let's have the churches get on that right away.
Diamondback
Member
And if we could just keep out the Irish, and the Poles, and the Germans, and the Czechs, and the Nigerians, and the Swiss.....!!!!!!!!.......they'll bleed us to death........a world wide conspiracy !!!!!!
Moparmike
Member
They must not have been in Cancun. In Cancun a white face means "loaded with $$$."
So legal immigrants arent allowed to attend schools where their parents are paying taxes? Isnt that a little overboard?
CannibalCrowley
Member
Show me a Native American who doesn't speak English; wow it must have worked then. Are there public schools that are bilingual for Irish, German, Italian, et cetera? If not, then the English only system must have worked yet again.
The problem today is the groups that think the U.S. should adapt to those who have no right to be here in the first place. If someone wants to finance a school entirely with private funds and have it be bilingual, that's their right (as long as everyone is properly documented). But don't expect others to adjust to those who are too lazy to learn the language of the country they reside in.
CannibalCrowley
Member
CannibalCrowley
Moparmike
I meant to also include those who are in the process of attaining citizenship. As for illegals, screw 'em; have them deported and adopt a "fence and shoot" policy along the border. English only schools have worked for many years; why should things be changed because some people are too lazy to learn the language?
Brian Dale
Member
CC,
Hanlon includes the phrase, "adequately explained." I think that you're too generous about motives.
What we're seeing cannot be adequately explained by either stupidity or laziness on the part of invaders. What we're seeing is an invasion. Immigration is also a part of the new-style Islamofascist approach to invading Europe that's described in hops's current THR thread, New Breed of Islamic Warrior Is Emerging / WSJ, at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73864
The "Aztlan" crowd, MeCHA, the Mexican consulate and the folks who're pushing this program are not lazy. Neither are the majority of the folks on whose behalf they speak.
This campaign to "change things," as you say, is a way to seize power. What they plan to change is who holds the power.
I think you're following Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"—or, as you put it here, its half-brother, laziness.
Hanlon includes the phrase, "adequately explained." I think that you're too generous about motives.
What we're seeing cannot be adequately explained by either stupidity or laziness on the part of invaders. What we're seeing is an invasion. Immigration is also a part of the new-style Islamofascist approach to invading Europe that's described in hops's current THR thread, New Breed of Islamic Warrior Is Emerging / WSJ, at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73864
The "Aztlan" crowd, MeCHA, the Mexican consulate and the folks who're pushing this program are not lazy. Neither are the majority of the folks on whose behalf they speak.
This campaign to "change things," as you say, is a way to seize power. What they plan to change is who holds the power.
longeyes
member
Yes, it's about power. It's not as if the MECHA people don't know English; they do. It's about power as expressed through race and culture. Read their website. For Aryan substitute "Bronze."
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Cannibal, it seems to me the issue is whether or not a kid learns English, not whether he should be in the U.S. Sure, I don't want illegals here, but if a kid's in school, he oughta get a U.S. education and that requires knowledge of English. So, what works is good; what doesn't work isn't.
By the way, it was deliberate policy in the Rez schools back in the late 1800s and eqarly 1900s to try to pretty much end the Indian knowledge of their own languages. It didn't work, but it was tried.
Sorta at a tangent to the issue of languages, but I've always thought that one of the dumber parts of the U.S. educational system is the lack of study of foreign languages earlier than high school. After all, to an infant, any language is foreign. While most of us won't need foreign languages here in this country, I compare us to many Europeans who speak and write in several languages.
A lady I knew in Paris, almost 50 years ago, was fluent in French, Italian, English and Swiss. She was learning Russian in anticipation of a trip to Moscow to visit relatives in the Embassy there. She had some Spanish, and understood a fair amount of Japanese. Most of her friends were polylingual, as well, although they took pity on this poor Ami who was limited to English. And, I met a fair number of Scandinavians who were fluent in German, English and French as well as their native tongues...
Polylingual people can command higher salaries in the world of business. My daughter-in-law is doing well in Germany because of her fluency in English.
Were my son still a kid in school, I'd sorta push him toward foreign languages and business courses. Chinese and Spanish, as well as European...
No matter where you live in the U.S., you can add to your income if you can speak Spanish as well as English. People tend to patronize businesses where they can communicate. Sell more guns, that way.
, Art
By the way, it was deliberate policy in the Rez schools back in the late 1800s and eqarly 1900s to try to pretty much end the Indian knowledge of their own languages. It didn't work, but it was tried.
Sorta at a tangent to the issue of languages, but I've always thought that one of the dumber parts of the U.S. educational system is the lack of study of foreign languages earlier than high school. After all, to an infant, any language is foreign. While most of us won't need foreign languages here in this country, I compare us to many Europeans who speak and write in several languages.
A lady I knew in Paris, almost 50 years ago, was fluent in French, Italian, English and Swiss. She was learning Russian in anticipation of a trip to Moscow to visit relatives in the Embassy there. She had some Spanish, and understood a fair amount of Japanese. Most of her friends were polylingual, as well, although they took pity on this poor Ami who was limited to English. And, I met a fair number of Scandinavians who were fluent in German, English and French as well as their native tongues...
Polylingual people can command higher salaries in the world of business. My daughter-in-law is doing well in Germany because of her fluency in English.
Were my son still a kid in school, I'd sorta push him toward foreign languages and business courses. Chinese and Spanish, as well as European...
No matter where you live in the U.S., you can add to your income if you can speak Spanish as well as English. People tend to patronize businesses where they can communicate. Sell more guns, that way.
, ArtBrian Dale
Member
Did everyone notice this in the article?
Tell you what—let's invite the L.A. School District to build schools IN Mexico for those teachers and whichever of those kids belong to parents who're illegal aliens. That AND enforcement of immigration laws would be a lot cheaper than eventually giving up most of the Southwest to foreign nationals.
That's right: they're building 140 schools in L.A. for Mexican kids, and they're staffing them with Mexican teachers. Why does the District plan to "work with the consulate" when there's no shortage of Spanish-speaking folks IN LOS ANGELES??? Does it take longer to earn teaching credentials than to build a school? Are there no teachers now? Or is something ELSE going on here?
Tell you what—let's invite the L.A. School District to build schools IN Mexico for those teachers and whichever of those kids belong to parents who're illegal aliens. That AND enforcement of immigration laws would be a lot cheaper than eventually giving up most of the Southwest to foreign nationals.
Taxpayers Should Not Subsidize College for Illegal Aliens
BACKGROUND
Efforts are under way in several states to allow illegal aliens to pay steeply discounted in-state tuition at public colleges and universities—rates not available to American citizens from other states. As state universities across the country increasingly limit enrollment, increasing the intake of illegal aliens into these schools will mean fewer opportunities and less aid for U.S. citizens and legal immigrants.
States that offer in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens are actively working against the federal government’s effort to combat illegal immigration, harming citizens and legal immigrants, and opening themselves up to substantial costs and criminal liability.
Virginia's Attorney General studied the issue of in-state tuition for illegal alien students and came to the conclusion that the expenditure of state resources for that purpose is illegal. Read the Executive Summary of the legal opinion.
Competition for Scare Resources
State universities across the country are increasingly limiting enrollment; increasing the intake of illegal aliens into these schools will necessarily deny opportunities to U.S. citizens and legal residents.
With the cost of a college education skyrocketing, slots at state-subsidized universities are becoming the only hope of a higher education for many American families. With a finite number of seats and amount of aid available, when public universities admit an illegal immigrant and provide subsidized tuition, some other student who is also deserving is denied an opportunity. Admitting and subsidizing illegal aliens, in effect, punishes citizens and legal residents who have done nothing wrong themselves.
Expensive Burden on Taxpayers
Post-secondary public education is heavily subsidized by state taxpayers. It is unlikely that a majority of a state’s taxpayers would approve having their tax dollars spent on educating illegal aliens, if they were asked to approve such a policy.
Before California’s current in-state tuition law was passed, a previous one was vetoed by the state’s governor on the basis that it would impose an unmanageable financial burden on the state’s higher education system. “Based on Fall 1998 enrollment figures at the [U. of Cal. and Cal. State U.] alone, this legislation could result in a revenue loss of over $63.7 million to the state,†according to the governor in 2000.1
States that give in-state tuition to illegal aliens:
California, New York, Texas, and Utah
It’s Illegal
Not only is giving in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens expensive, it’s illegal. When Virginia’s Attorney General studied the issue of in-state tuition for illegal alien students, he came to the conclusion that the expenditure of state resources for that purpose is illegal. This conclusion is based in part on the immigration reform act of 1996, which specified: “Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an alien who is not lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a State (or a political subdivision) for any postsecondary education benefit unless a citizen or national of the United States is eligible for such a benefit (in no less amount, duration, and scope) without regard to whether the citizen or national is such a resident.â€2
The existence of the Section 505 provision clearly puts states that provide illegal aliens in-state tuition rates at risk. It opens them up to lawsuits challenging the conferral of in-state tuition on illegal aliens if it is not similarly made available to U.S. citizens and legal residents from elsewhere in the country.
Promoting Illegal Immigration
State policies that offer the benefit of in-state tuition to illegal aliens are likely to attract illegal alien families to move to those states. Because of the costs of illegal immigration, the citizens of those states may rightly protest that such a policy is contrary to the best interests of the citizens of that state.
Unfair and Illogical
If aliens are illegally residing in the United States, they cannot be legal residents of the state in which they are applying for admission to a state university. Furthermore, illegal aliens may not legally hold a job in the United States. Therefore, it makes no sense to expend tax dollars on their higher education, rather than on students who can legally work here.
Apologists for illegal immigration claim that illegal aliens do work that Americans will not do. But their argument for in-state tuition is that these illegal aliens should not be forced by lack of education to do unskilled work. Which is it?
During Illinois’ debate over in-state tuition for illegal aliens, the Chicago Tribune editorialized on the idea’s unfairness: “First, it makes cities and states usurpers of the prerogative granted by the Constitution to Congress 'to establish an [sic] uniform Rule of Naturalization . . . .’ In other words, it’s Congress that decides who becomes a citizen and how, and it is not for any other unit of government—federal, state, or local—to modify it or set it aside. Second, it deprives citizens—of the nation and the states—of what they have a reasonable right to expect: that all the activities of their various governments will be conducted within a framework of law, the most basic element of which is a definition of citizenship and its rights and responsibilities.â€3
1. Governor’s Veto Message to the Assembly on AB 1197, September 29, 2000.
2. Section 505 of the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRAIRA) (PL 104-208; 110 Stat 3009-672; 8 U.S.C. 1623). Referring to this provision, House conference Report 104-828 reads “this section provides that illegal aliens are not eligible for in-state tuition rates at pubic institutions of higher education.â€
3. Chicago Tribune, March 31, 2003.
BACKGROUND
Efforts are under way in several states to allow illegal aliens to pay steeply discounted in-state tuition at public colleges and universities—rates not available to American citizens from other states. As state universities across the country increasingly limit enrollment, increasing the intake of illegal aliens into these schools will mean fewer opportunities and less aid for U.S. citizens and legal immigrants.
States that offer in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens are actively working against the federal government’s effort to combat illegal immigration, harming citizens and legal immigrants, and opening themselves up to substantial costs and criminal liability.
Virginia's Attorney General studied the issue of in-state tuition for illegal alien students and came to the conclusion that the expenditure of state resources for that purpose is illegal. Read the Executive Summary of the legal opinion.
Competition for Scare Resources
State universities across the country are increasingly limiting enrollment; increasing the intake of illegal aliens into these schools will necessarily deny opportunities to U.S. citizens and legal residents.
With the cost of a college education skyrocketing, slots at state-subsidized universities are becoming the only hope of a higher education for many American families. With a finite number of seats and amount of aid available, when public universities admit an illegal immigrant and provide subsidized tuition, some other student who is also deserving is denied an opportunity. Admitting and subsidizing illegal aliens, in effect, punishes citizens and legal residents who have done nothing wrong themselves.
Expensive Burden on Taxpayers
Post-secondary public education is heavily subsidized by state taxpayers. It is unlikely that a majority of a state’s taxpayers would approve having their tax dollars spent on educating illegal aliens, if they were asked to approve such a policy.
Before California’s current in-state tuition law was passed, a previous one was vetoed by the state’s governor on the basis that it would impose an unmanageable financial burden on the state’s higher education system. “Based on Fall 1998 enrollment figures at the [U. of Cal. and Cal. State U.] alone, this legislation could result in a revenue loss of over $63.7 million to the state,†according to the governor in 2000.1
States that give in-state tuition to illegal aliens:
California, New York, Texas, and Utah
It’s Illegal
Not only is giving in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens expensive, it’s illegal. When Virginia’s Attorney General studied the issue of in-state tuition for illegal alien students, he came to the conclusion that the expenditure of state resources for that purpose is illegal. This conclusion is based in part on the immigration reform act of 1996, which specified: “Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an alien who is not lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a State (or a political subdivision) for any postsecondary education benefit unless a citizen or national of the United States is eligible for such a benefit (in no less amount, duration, and scope) without regard to whether the citizen or national is such a resident.â€2
The existence of the Section 505 provision clearly puts states that provide illegal aliens in-state tuition rates at risk. It opens them up to lawsuits challenging the conferral of in-state tuition on illegal aliens if it is not similarly made available to U.S. citizens and legal residents from elsewhere in the country.
Promoting Illegal Immigration
State policies that offer the benefit of in-state tuition to illegal aliens are likely to attract illegal alien families to move to those states. Because of the costs of illegal immigration, the citizens of those states may rightly protest that such a policy is contrary to the best interests of the citizens of that state.
Unfair and Illogical
If aliens are illegally residing in the United States, they cannot be legal residents of the state in which they are applying for admission to a state university. Furthermore, illegal aliens may not legally hold a job in the United States. Therefore, it makes no sense to expend tax dollars on their higher education, rather than on students who can legally work here.
Apologists for illegal immigration claim that illegal aliens do work that Americans will not do. But their argument for in-state tuition is that these illegal aliens should not be forced by lack of education to do unskilled work. Which is it?
During Illinois’ debate over in-state tuition for illegal aliens, the Chicago Tribune editorialized on the idea’s unfairness: “First, it makes cities and states usurpers of the prerogative granted by the Constitution to Congress 'to establish an [sic] uniform Rule of Naturalization . . . .’ In other words, it’s Congress that decides who becomes a citizen and how, and it is not for any other unit of government—federal, state, or local—to modify it or set it aside. Second, it deprives citizens—of the nation and the states—of what they have a reasonable right to expect: that all the activities of their various governments will be conducted within a framework of law, the most basic element of which is a definition of citizenship and its rights and responsibilities.â€3
1. Governor’s Veto Message to the Assembly on AB 1197, September 29, 2000.
2. Section 505 of the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRAIRA) (PL 104-208; 110 Stat 3009-672; 8 U.S.C. 1623). Referring to this provision, House conference Report 104-828 reads “this section provides that illegal aliens are not eligible for in-state tuition rates at pubic institutions of higher education.â€
3. Chicago Tribune, March 31, 2003.
If I could live on 600 a month I would be there now. I own property in Cabo and I can't live on 600 a week. But Cabo is very upscale and there is no crime and lots of Americans. I think Americans have taken over Cabo. Poor Mexicans we have taken over one of the best places in Mexico. I think we are even.
Your in America now speak Spanish!
Tex
Your in America now speak Spanish!
Tex
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