Mexico: Men in border incident not soldiers

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I guess that's what I'm saying, too.

These border incursions seem to be somewhat common, so why is there not serious manpower and hardware there? I agree the odds were not good for our guys, they should be evened up a bit. OK, a lot.
 
+1 we need to even up the odds on the border and let more people like the minute men out there to protect our country like kennedy said "ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" or something like that

on another story i thoink that it really was millitary and that they put their noses in where they shouldnt have and bush it trying to let it slide so not to increase violence in the usa. because no matter how you look at it it will be hard to fight mexico becaue of the large number of immagrants who are here and i am sure some of them will side with mexico.
 
Well good... :)

Maybe it will now be established and understood that having firefights under the circumstances described in my previous post isn't going to go well for the guys on our side. Military incursions should be met by a military response, but for a number of reasons that isn't likely to happen. By now this incident is yesterday’s news, and throughout the country (excluding along the border) there hasn’t been a ripple. The talking heads in Washington and Mexico City have explained what happened, and that’s that.

But I sort of wonder: If this force was really made up of drug smugglers, and they are armed as was said, why isn’t the Mexican Government not moving its own military forces into the area to counter the possible threat to their own authority? After all, this is a country that won’t even allow its citizens to own military-caliber handguns, and anyone crossing from outside to Mexico with so much as a single cartridge is in SERIOUS trouble.

But then, we should never question what we are told, never…never…never…
 
It sucks that its going to take drug running scum bags killing Americans on the border to get a somewhat sufficient reaction from Washington.

Though im still wary of the whole situation.
 
it does suck but i have been wary of this for a few years now not meaning to sound rascits or anything but the mexican kids are turning to the hip hop scence and as i am sure you all know that is not a good place
 
I agree that the US cops made the right choice. A few lightly armed cops (they certainly had their side arms, maybe a shotgun or semi-auto AR) are no match for 10 highly armed people, possibly soldiers, who are backed by one or two HUMVEE mounted 50s.

I see two practical partial solutions. Of course, the ideal would be the US military patrolling the border (maybe elements of the National Guard and Reserves- who better for real Homeland Security), but we all know the chances of that:banghead:

One potential solution is to arm the cops. Most of us decry the "militarization" of the police, but in these border cities and counties it makes sense. If they may be facing Mexican troops or paramilitary types, they need military weapons. A specialized SWAT team with full-auto ARs, and a couple well trained guys on police sniper rifles might have been able to take these guys on (primarily using the snipers, backed/defended by other team members on their ARs). At minimum make sure each cop in this region has a full auto M14/M1A, FAL, AR/M16, AK or similar in the trunk of the car.

A better solution (probably in conjunction with the above) is to militarize and enlarge the Border Patrol. In many other countries they recognize that the Border Police are their first line of defense. Take Israel for instance, yes they are police with police training and arrest powers, but they are also basically a part of the Armed Forces (though administratively they are a police agency) with the training and armament of a light infantry or at least MP unit (and organization, unit structure, and rank structure of a military unit). We already use a similar model with our Coast Guard- they are a police agency under the Department of Homeland Security (formerly under the Treasury Department) with many law enforcement duties and training, but they are a branch of the military with military training and organization and they can be placed under the Navy during times of war or crisis. We basically need the Border Patrol to be a land based Coast Guard- part military/part law enforcement, with all the military armament and training they need. They don't exist to arrest US citizens, they exist to protect and defend our borders.
 
But I sort of wonder: If this force was really made up of drug smugglers, and they are armed as was said, why isn’t the Mexican Government not moving its own military forces into the area to counter the possible threat to their own authority? After all, this is a country that won’t even allow its citizens to own military-caliber handguns, and anyone crossing from outside to Mexico with so much as a single cartridge is in SERIOUS trouble.

Behold: Narco-government.

On both sides of the border.

Of course we need our military there, but to use our military would interfere with the grand plan ($$$). Ain't gonna happen.
 
If only drugs were legal, then they'd be coming north in legal semi-trailers passing through normal customs.

But since we cant possible have sane and sensible narcotics legislation our border patrol and LEO's in border towns get to shoot it out with government backed militarized drug smugglers.

And the proposed solutions? well...more militarization of the border...more police...more money...

why don't we just legalize it and enjoy the tariff profits....naaaaah...that makes too much sense.
 
So no one asks how the drug smugglers happen to be outfitted with mexican weapons and vehicles, patrolling the border in place of the military? Where do the drug cartels end and the government begin?

Your absolutely right. Mexico should adobt the American model of outlawing the civilian possession of military styled weapons and humvees, and they should not allow civilians within 10 miles of the border. Oh wait...
 
This is going to anger some, and shock some of the other mods. But until the local ranchers and citizens begin shooting these guys when they are on this side of the border, it wont stop. Chertoff will continue to appologize and cover for them, the administration will continue to PROHIBIT the agents on the border from reporting Mexican military and police on this side of the line, PROHIBIT them from engaging them in a firefight even when shot at first, and PROHIBIT them from filing reports on these incidents unless someone is hurt. If there is property damage they are to turn in the property for repair. Until we can show a Mexican Hummer with heavy weapons and a squad of troops armed with automatic rifles, on a US citizens property, it wont stop. The only thing that would be better is if the incident was video taped and it was a nice clean shoot.

Some would say that I am one of those guys who is too eager to use a weapon. That's because you don't know me. The fact stands that these Mexican soldiers are using property of mexico to aid in the transport of narcotics and illegal aliens into the US. They are violating our laws by doing so, and invading the US by coming onto our soil. Maybe I am a simple guy, but the course of action we need to take seems pretty clear to me.
 
Well PvtPyle, I normally only salute on Memorial Day, but I think that I'll make an exception today. To ya...
Biker
 
Pvt. Pyle, of course, one has to accept the notion that "they", whoever they are, are actually here.

In politics perception is reality. The reality could be that "they" are not here and people are being deliberately mislead to further the agendas of those with a vest interest in border restrictions.
 
the man is watching us remember and if your property is ever used for one of these shootings the yhave it premetadted or however you spell it. that is why i use a public computer lol
but i agree we need to get this show roilling it is going to happen but look at it this way "at least we have more time to buy ammo"
 
Guys -

I signed up as a MinuteMan in Arizona a couple of weeks ago, and I am going to help with some border surveillance here soon, but this type of stuff has me worried...

MinuteMen are not allowed to carry long guns for protection. I sure would feel much more warm and fuzzy if I had my M1A in my pickup, but I ain't allowed to, so I won't have it. Heck, I'd feel better with a Winnie94, but I won't have it. I'll only have a handgun, similar to these sherriff's deputies.

I certainly don't intend on chasing any humvees or anything, but what if they feel they need to "arrest" me if they somehow spot me as they drive by? Or if they have equipment that lets them track radio signal origination?

What if they decide this spring they want to bring a fight to the US, starting with the minutemen?

I would have a radio and a handgun against several vehicles of armed men with heavy full auto guns for support. Creepy.

I'm still going to help with surveillance, but it is scary stuff. I sure want some NG or Army patrols in that desert. I want some big guns somewhere nearby, if I can't have them.
 
Yeah, I am sure the BP guys who had them use a bulldozer and 2 hummers to sieze a load of dope that BP had confiscated so they could give it back to the drug runners. I am sure that they were very happy to have these imaginary mexicans sieze their load so that the ensuing paperwork and investigation could cause them no end of headache.

And if it is a ruse to further the restrictions on the boarder, it isn't working. It is still wide open.

But the first time one of these terrorists gets across with a SAM (as opposed to the Pak national who was caught with 21 of them 50 miles south of Diego last summer) and downs a plane, I bet you see somebody close the border. One way or another.
 
+1 pyle
but should we have to wait for that... we didnt have a warning on 9-11 but now we do so why are we waiting i am saying we know something is going to happen but we are waiting gor it to happen why?
 
I wonder what the reaction from the mexican government would be if a number of these people were killed while on the north side of the border? For some reason I think they wouldn't like that...which is strange, since they are just smugglers :rolleyes:
 
too much is too much already

If Americans in military uniforms, in military vehicles, carrying military
weapons made an incursion into Mexico, the results would be: Mexico
would protect Mexican national sovereignty*. USA needs to be equally
adamant in protecting USA national sovereignty.

----------------
*Survivors would be in Federale prisons.
 
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