Mexico: Men in border incident not soldiers

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azredhawk44, if you want I can show you at least 2 major trails coming North from the Sasabe area. We hunt down there and always see fresh tracks heading North.

Wish I could join you but my AD status restricts me from doing so. At least thats what I have been told by a department individual who had alot of acronyms on her card. ;)
 
Minutemen can't carry long arms to defend themselves?

I think you guys need to go back and look at the statue in Lexington, or the one at Concord (Yep, there are two of them, and they are different).

Otherwise, you are going to have to call yourselves "I'll Get Back to You in a Minute" Men while you scramble to retrieve something big enough to counter a Hum Vee with a fifty on top.

No offense to the Minute Men group, but don't sacrifice someone's life to avoid stepping on Politically Correct toes.
 
El Tejon said:
So, we couldn't tell just by looking at them that they were official Mexican government troops.
Yeah.

But a Mexican politician/bureaucrat who wasn't there and who didn't witness the event KNOWS they were not real Mexican military personnel.

Riiiiight! 10-4
 
We got plenty of video of what's going on. Ain't it curious little if any makes it to air. Even curiouser is about a year ago DoD test flew a Predator sorta testing out surveillance systems (as if it really were necessary). The program was terminated and deemed a success. Curiously, no one, lemme repeat--no one, has filed a FOI request for release of the video. I would just love to see a night scope panorama view of a section of the border. I suspect no on in the ruling class wants that kind of visual on air.

Private Pyle is correct. There will have to be a firefight to attract the attention of Big Media. Our culture is essentially one that believes nothing happened unless we see video. Trouble is if the ranchers open up or if they inadvertently get into a firefight both the media and fed.gov will be all over the poor slobs like a bad case of the flu. Sad but accurate in my view.
 
Trouble is if the ranchers open up or if they inadvertently get into a firefight both the media and fed.gov will be all over the poor slobs like a bad case of the flu. Sad but accurate in my view.

Which is probably why the minutemen don't carry long guns.

Minutemen can't carry long arms to defend themselves?

I think you guys need to go back and look at the statue in Lexington, or the one at Concord (Yep, there are two of them, and they are different).

Otherwise, you are going to have to call yourselves "I'll Get Back to You in a Minute" Men while you scramble to retrieve something big enough to counter a Hum Vee with a fifty on top.

No offense to the Minute Men group, but don't sacrifice someone's life to avoid stepping on Politically Correct toes.

I don't know for absolute certainty about the rifle situation, but that is the information I have so far. I have only been to rallies here in phoenix protesting day labor so far.

lennyjoe said:
azredhawk44, if you want I can show you at least 2 major trails coming North from the Sasabe area. We hunt down there and always see fresh tracks heading North.

Wish I could join you but my AD status restricts me from doing so. At least thats what I have been told by a department individual who had alot of acronyms on her card.

If anyone has GPS coordinates of commonly used illegal immigrant trails and wants to pass them along, PM me if you don't know anyone else in the organization. I am new, but I will do what I can to get them in the right place.
 
Of course, all these problems would disappear if we had the balls to decriminalize drugs and immigration. Notice nobody is forcing Americans to smoke weed or hire immigrants. We do it because we love our drugs and cheap labor pool, and we'll continue to seek them out whether it's legal or not.
 
Yup.... Forget everything that you've read... we have a new story. :uhoh:

I just knew that the truth would come out. :eek: :rolleyes:

This unquestionably is the straight stuff... :scrutiny:

Mexico Claims GIs Aid Pot Smugglers
January 26, 2006 7:12 PM EST

MEXICO CITY - Mexico's top diplomat suggested Thursday that American soldiers disguised as Mexican troops may have been in the military-style Humvee filmed earlier this week protecting a marijuana shipment on the border.

Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez also told a news conference that U.S. soldiers had helped drug smugglers before.

However, he offered no evidence.

The U.S. Embassy in Mexico made no immediate comment on Derbez's claims.

His comments came a day after U.S. Ambassador Tony Garza issued a statement asking the Mexican government to "fully investigate" the border incident.

Monday's armed standoff began 50 miles east of El Paso, Texas, when Texas state police tried to stop three sport utility vehicles on Interstate 10. The vehicles made a quick U-turn and headed south toward the border, a few miles away.

Crossing the border, one SUV got stuck in the Rio Grande River, and men in a Humvee tried in vain to tow it out. Then a group of men in civilian clothes began unloading what appeared to be bundles of marijuana and torched the SUV before fleeing.

Mexico insisted Wednesday that the men in military-style uniforms were drug smugglers, not soldiers. In Mexico, kidnappers and drug smugglers regularly wear police gear, which is sold at street stands.

Derbez said Thursday that the men photographed by Texas law enforcement could have been Americans.

"Members of the U.S. Army have helped protect people who were processing and transporting drugs," Derbez said. "And just as that has happened ... it is very probable that something like that could have happened, that in reality they were members of some of their groups disguised as Mexican soldiers with Humvees."

Three U.S. soldiers have pleaded guilty to running a cocaine smuggling ring from a U.S. base in Colombia, and a fourth is being tried in Texas this week.

Derbez said there was no proof that the men seen in the incident were Mexicans.

Derbez also said his country will send a diplomatic note to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice demanding that U.S. officials tone down their comments on Mexico's security and immigration problems.

So now they is a'gonna send Mrs. Rice a nasty letter... :banghead:
 
bowfin said:
Minutemen can't carry long arms to defend themselves?

I think you guys need to go back and look at the statue in Lexington, or the one at Concord (Yep, there are two of them, and they are different).

Otherwise, you are going to have to call yourselves "I'll Get Back to You in a Minute" Men while you scramble to retrieve something big enough to counter a Hum Vee with a fifty on top.

No offense to the Minute Men group, but don't sacrifice someone's life to avoid stepping on Politically Correct toes.
Actually, I have been writing for a long time that we do have an unorganized militia written into the Constitution in the form of the 2nd Amendment and Title 10 Section 311 of the United States Code. All Sam has to do is call them into national service on a voluntary basis. We have hundreds of thousands - probably millions - of vets who have already had training and experience who would volunteer for this on a part time basis. And many potentially even have their own personal equipment.

But alas; we have a government who have an agenda of their own, and the last thing on their collective mind is to use a Constitutional resource like the unorganized militia to spoil their plans.
----------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
I might be getting a bit grey in the hair, long of tooth, and cast a bit larger shadow...but I can still hump a load a few miles...and I like to think I am a bit better marksman than what I was those years ago. If I am called I won't let the answering machine take it. :)


Its going to be sad. This is going to lead to some good men who wear the badge getting hurt or worse simply because our enlightened leadership refuses to knuckle down on our cheap labor pool. I have too many friends who are LEO's to not be concerned with that outcome.

I still have the fear of just how many OTHER individuals, that aren't of Mexican or SA descent , have come across the border. With me and mine living so close to THE petrochemical heart of America...it keeps you awake sometimes at night. :(

D
 
PvtPyle, the border has always been dangerous. Heck, Bill Jordan and Harlon Carter said it was and that's good enough for me. However, it is not as dangerous as the streets of Chicago, New York or D.C.

However, the recent hysteria is manufactured to create political opportunities. Smuggling has always existed, however the nonsense regarding the Mexican Army and other bear stories, e.g. the Zetas, are used to create outrage so lift the political fortunes of some.
 
The Mexico-USA Border is like the Great Niagara--

The Mexico-USA Border is like the Great Niagara--each year a bit more of American soil is eroded away by the flow of illegals, literally crumbling away at our great democracy, and moving the perceived line of American sovereignty ever-northward.

Too, like the great Niagara, we are powerless to stop the illegal flow. The illegals have poured into America, contaminating the very core of our country and society. We claim concern for national security, yet we stand with our hands tied behind our backs, blind-folded saying, "I don't see a problem".

We better consider one fact--if the USA ever declared "war" on Mexico, they already have a standing "Army" of about 15 million illegals inside the USA. Do you REALLY think we'd kick their butts? We lost this war even before it was declared. Perhaps THAT is the reason no one in Washington dares to confront the issue?

Doc2005
 
My Thought

Barrett .50BMG through the engine block of any suspect vehical , It won't be going back accross the border, picture and hard evidence go a long way. Let the Mexicali Army run back accross the bourder and explain how thier Humvee ended up on the wrong side of the river. And let the fun begin. That's some thing the local LE could do.

There is no virtue in defenselessness, and no dignity in victimhood.
 
You might be able to stop the Humvee, but in the meantime they'd have their "Ma Duce" running, and both our officers and their vehicles would be vulnerable. Then one might expect that our outnumbered lawmen would be facing small arms fire from automatic weapons too. Sounds like a great way to have a “no survivors” situation for our side.

If indeed incursions are occurring across out border with heavy military equipment and weapons, any response should be by our military – not law enforcement officers, and not private citizens.

The Minute Men, who have proven to be viable and useful, pointedly say that they are in place as observers, not fighters.

Somehow I think a few of you guys want to get our people killed while you dream up far-fetched solutions.

As for the Mexican government, they'd either say the Humvee(s) wasn’t theirs, or that drug smugglers had stolen it. Right now they say it's our own GI's that are doing the dirty deeds... :cuss:
 
well i think that it is going to come to a biol and there is no way to stop it and i am saying that i am ready it is the waiting for some thing big to happen that kills people if we ignor the threat it only grows it does not go away
 
The program was terminated and deemed a success
I wouldn't necessarily say it's terminated. Just not talked about much outside of military/Homeland Security channels.

If anyone has GPS coordinates of commonly used illegal immigrant trails and wants to pass them along

I just might have to go out for a ride to our usual quail areas this weekend and mark the trails for you. I have the coordinates where we park but the trails are about 200yds inside of the road. Will pull out the GPS this eve and hash it out.
 
It's A Shame...

That the United States of America of 2006 does not have the cojones to do what the United States of 1916 did. That is to put the US Army on the border to protect it's citizens and their property from foriegn invaders. Have no doubt that the Mexican Army is working for the narcotraficantes. Mexico is a thourghly corrupt society. Almost all of my living relatives are Mexican and they lament the situation within their country. Everyone is on the take in Mexico, and everyone has their price.

I'm afraid that it will take something like Pancho Villa's raid on Colombus, New Mexico to get the Feds to do something about the situation on the border. Imagine the uproar if that standoff along the Rio Grande earlier this week had ended in a firefight with multiple causulties on the American side. I imagine the most likely event to occur will be a "Miami Shootout in the Desert." with our guys getting hammered due to being outgunned and outnumbered. Until such an event, I don't see the politicians doing anything substantial to remedy the situation. The elites of both parties greatly benefit from allowing a flood of illegals in. One party gains voters, while the other party's financial supporters gain both cheap illegal laborers and a supression of the wages of American workers.

As things seem to be warming up way down Mexico way, I think the "incident" will happen sooner rather than later.
 
This may sound overly simplistic, but let the dance begin. A shootout, likely deadly to our own, just might be the catalyst required to direct national attention to our borders. Either that or a 9/11 type of event that coud be traced to border incusions.
It's gonna happen sooner or later, might as well make it now.
Biker
 
Biker said:
This may sound overly simplistic, but let the dance begin. A shootout, likely deadly to our own, just might be the catalyst required to direct national attention to our borders. Either that or a 9/11 type of event that coud be traced to border incusions.
It's gonna happen sooner or later, might as well make it now.
Biker


Roger that. Sad, but true.
 
Old Fuff said:
If our border is being crossed by individuals armed and equipped as described above, the response should come from out military, not civilian law enforcement officers.
Amen to that.

The ground I walked over down there would be wonderful for training up our Nat'l Guardsmen & regulars in patrolling.

The cops did the right thing. They weren't equipped to deal with Ma Deuce. A couple of Strykers or LAV-3s would be just the ticket.
 
What we have right now is a charade. Next month the charade moves to D.C., where we will get to watch a lot of so-called political representatives of this Republic dance as fast as they can around the issue of the illegal invasion of America. Is the border going to get "hot?" Of course. Probably sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as armed Americans taking on Mexicans. We have our own Government against us right now. We still lack a strong grass-roots political movement to bring the enormity of this problem home to the right people in Washington in terms they understand.
 
Mexican Army on our turf

rick_reno said:
Well, I'm glad this is finally explained. I know President Bush has a plan to deal with the border problem - what worriesme is it appears to be the same plan that Senator Kennedy has. Why do they think alike?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11021314/

MEXICO CITY - Mexico insisted Wednesday that men in Mexican military-style uniforms who crossed the Rio Grande River and sparked an armed confrontation with Texas law officers earlier this week were drug smugglers, not Mexican soldiers.

Mexico’s presidential spokesman Ruben Aguilar said the FBI supported that view, but he gave no evidence of the claim.

“These were not Mexican soldiers,” Aguilar said at a news conference. “It is known that these are drug traffickers using military uniforms and they were not even regulation military uniforms.”

Texas law enforcement officials confronted armed traffickers near the Rio Grande river on Monday as what looked like a Mexican military patrol assisted the marijuana smugglers as they escaped back into Mexico.

On U.S. side of border
Andrea Simmons, an FBI spokeswoman in El Paso, told The Associated Press that Texas Department of Public Safety troopers chased three SUVs, believing they were carrying drugs, to the banks of the Rio Grande during Monday's incident.

Men dressed in Mexican military uniforms or camouflage were on the U.S. side of the border in Texas, she said.

Simmons said the FBI was not involved and referred requests for further details to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

The Inland Valley Daily Bulletin of Ontario, Calif., reported Tuesday that the incident included an armed standoff involving the Mexican military and suspected drug smugglers. The incident follows a story in the Bulletin on Jan. 15 that said the Mexican military had crossed into the United States more than 200 times since 1996.

Apparent military Humvee helped
In a news conference, Rick Glancey of the Texas Border Sheriff's Coalition, said three Hudspeth County deputies and at least two Texas Department of Public Safety troopers squared off against at least 10 heavily armed men from the Mexican side of the Rio Grande.

U.S. officials who pursued three fleeing SUVs to the Mexican border saw what appeared to be a Mexican military Humvee help one of the SUVs when it got stuck in the river, he said.

“The other two vehicles headed towards the riverbank. One of them crossed back into Mexico, and the third got stuck in the riverbed,” Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez said on Tuesday.

An estimated 10 men in camouflage gear in what looked like a Humvee equipped with a .50 caliber machine gun unloaded what was believed to be marijuana from the stuck vehicle, set it on fire, then carried the bundles into Mexico, he said.

A second SUV had a flat tire and was left behind in the United States and its occupant ran across the border, Glancey said.

Gonzalez, also of the Texas Border Sheriffs’ Coalition, said he was skeptical about the Mexican government's claims.

“When you see a Humvee vehicle with a .50 caliber machine gun on it, this leads you to believe this is not a vehicle being used by the drug lords, but in fact is part of the Mexican military,” Gonzalez said. “I think of course the Mexican government knows about this.”

Glancey said he could not confirm whether the armed men seen at the site were Mexican Army, police officers, or drug dealers, and would not detail what markings deputies may have seen on the men's uniforms or the Humvee.

Fearing international incident
Chief Deputy Mike Doyal of the Hudspeth County Sheriff's Department said that Mexican army personnel had several mounted machine guns on the ground more than 200 yards inside the U.S. border, the Daily Bulletin newspaper reported earlier.

"It's been so bred into everyone not to start an international incident with Mexico that it's been going on for years," Doyal said. "When you're up against mounted machine guns, what can you do? Who wants to pull the trigger first? Certainly not us."

Hudspeth County Sheriff Arvin West, whose officers were involved in a similar incident last year, said he is certain that Mexican authorities know who was involved.

After the newspaper reported on Mexican military crossings earlier this month, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said the report was overblown and most of the incursions were just mistakes.

In eastern California, Arizona and New Mexico, the U.S.-Mexico border is largely unmarked. But in Texas, the Rio Grande separates the two countries and even when dry, is a riverbed about 200 feet wide.

In November, Doyal said Border Patrol agents in the border town of Fort Hancock called for help after confronting more than six men dressed in Mexican military uniforms. The men allegedly were trying to bring more than three tons of marijuana across the Rio Grande, Doyal told the newspaper.

The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

Perhaps it would be more convincing with some captured equipment and a few bodies in uniform. If Mexico isn't corrupt, why are so many Mexicans risking everything to escape to America??? If I were presented with an opportunity to capture a Mexican soldier in America the FIRST thing I would do would be to take the prisiner to a television station. I have no property for the courts to give to illegals like they did in Arizona.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Tom
 
Old Fuff said:
You might be able to stop the Humvee, but in the meantime they'd have their "Ma Duce" running, and both our officers and their vehicles would be vulnerable. Then one might expect that our outnumbered lawmen would be facing small arms fire from automatic weapons too. Sounds like a great way to have a “no survivors” situation for our side.

I'd suggest having a couple Barrets handy, with either Raufoss or SLAP ammunition. Both give the rifle a longer accurate range, and the first is liable to thoroughly trash an engine; dunno about SLAP's actual damage potential but I figure a small grenade detonating in the engine block'll distract the gunners long enough that sniper #2 can destroy the gun. Or, if you're not going to pump 'em for info, aim for the cabin; the Raufosses are designed to detonate after penetrating, after all.

Rinse, repeat a few times, and then send in the Marines.

It's gonna happen sooner or later, might as well make it now.
Biker
... Before Al Quaeda gets in on the action. I may think it's outright evil to sacrifice our men this way, but I worry about what happens if we *don't*
 
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