Military Shuns Many of Recruiting Age

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wingman

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Military Shuns Many of Recruiting Age By PAULINE JELINEK, Associated Press Writer




WASHINGTON - Uncle Sam wants YOU, that famous Army recruiting poster says. But does he really? Not if you're a Ritalin-taking, overweight, Generation Y couch potato — or some combination of the above.


As for that fashionable "body art" that the military still calls a tattoo, having one is grounds for rejection, too.

With U.S. casualties rising in wars overseas and more opportunities in the civilian work force from an improved U.S. economy, many young people are shunning a career in the armed forces. But recruiting is still a two-way street — and the military, too, doesn't want most people in this prime recruiting age group of 17 to 24.

Of some 32 million Americans now in this group, the Army deems the vast majority too obese, too uneducated, too flawed in some way, according to its estimates for the current budget year.

"As you look at overall population and you start factoring out people, many are not eligible in the first place to apply," said Doug Smith, spokesman for the Army Recruiting Command.

Some experts are skeptical.

Previous Defense Department studies have found that 75 percent of young people are ineligible for military service, noted Charles Moskos of Northwestern University. While the professor emeritus who specializes in military sociology says it is "a baloney number," he acknowledges he has no figures to counter it.

"Recruiters are looking for reasons other than themselves," said David R. Segal, director of the Center for Research on Military Organization at the University of Maryland. "So they blame the pool."

The military's figures are estimates, based partly on census numbers. They are part of an elaborate analysis the military does as it struggles each year to compete with colleges and companies for the nation's best and brightest, plan for future needs and maintain diversity.

The Census Bureau estimates that the overall pool of people who would be in the military's prime target age has shrunk as American society ages. There were 1 million fewer 18- to 24-year olds in 2004 than in 2000, the agency says.

The pool shrinks to 13.6 million when only high school graduates and those who score in the upper half on a military service aptitude test are considered. The 30 percent who are high school dropouts are not the top choice of today's professional, all-volunteer and increasingly high-tech military force.

Other factors include:

_the rising rate of obesity; some 30 percent of U.S. adults are now considered obese.

_a decline in physical fitness; one-third of teenagers are now believed to be incapable of passing a treadmill test.

_a near-epidemic rise in the use of Ritalin and other stimulants to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Potential recruits are ineligible for military service if they have taken such a drug in the previous year.

Doctors prescribe these drugs to about 2 million children and 1 million adults a month, according to a federal survey. Many more are believed to be using such stimulants recreationally and to stay awake longer to boost academic and physical performance.

Other potential recruits are rejected because they have criminal histories and too many dependents. Subtract 4.4 million from the pool for these people and for the overweight.

Others can be rejected for medical problems, from blindness to asthma. The Army estimate has subtracted 2.6 million for this group.

That leaves 4.3 million fully qualified potential recruits and an estimated 2.3 million more who might qualify if given waivers on some of their problems.

The bottom line: a total 6.6 million potential recruits from all men and women in the 32 million-person age group.

In the budget year that ended last September, 15 percent of recruits required a waiver in order to be accepted for active duty services — or about 11,000 people of some 73,000 recruited.

Most waivers were for medical problems. Some were for misdemeanors such as public drunkenness, resisting arrest or misdemeanor assault — prompting criticism that the Army is lowering its standards.

This year the Army is trying to recruit 80,000 people; all the services are recruiting about 180,000.

And about the tattoos: They are not supposed to be on your neck, refer to gang membership, be offensive, or in any way conflict with military standards on integrity, respect and team work. The military is increasingly giving waivers for some types of tattoos, officials said.

___
 
Youre saying that the military, with complete control over what I eat and how often I exercise and sleep cant make me lose or gain any amount of weight? I call BS on this one.

It sounds like the military has had impossible constraints imposed upon it. Im thinking something along the lines of:
-you must turn civilians into soldiers with this amount of effort and cost
-they must be these ages
-they must be of the following races and ethnic groups in certain proportions
-they must be well educated
-they must be in flawless physical and moral condition but be obedient
-and we need a quarter million of them right away

Sounds like typical software engineer dilemma of "produce 6 months worth of features in 3 weeks with no resources, but it must be of the highest quality" to which I usually respond "go tell the client you lied to them and dont dare waste my time like this again."
 
If you can turn away men because of tatttoos you either you have a top notch military with plenty of men enlisted, or you need to rethink what legitimate entry qualifications are. I'm not all that familiar with the issue, but I was under the impression the military is quite well staffed and has no shortage of applicants.
 
Slurrpy,

I imagine the military doesn't want to spend months taking weight off applicants and putting some muscle on them in "remedial boot camp" before they can be put regular boot camp. I knew cutting PE from the high school curriculum would come back to haunt us some day. Then combine that with today's sedentary lifestyle for children (there aren't anywhere near as many kids riding bikes as their primary mode of transportation today as there were 20 years ago) and today's potential recruits are much less fit than in the past.

Soybomb,

Note the types of tattoos that are prohibited - not exactly conducive to esprit d'corps.
 
One of my NCOs is a former recruiter. They will work with just about anyone to get them in. He has many stories of taking an overweight toad and working out with him or her for a couple months so they could meet entry standards. As far as having mental issues -- what do think happens when you take someone who already has problems and put them in a deployed environment? Any problems they have just get that much worst.

The really sad part of this article is that the same kinds of qualities that the military looks for are what civilian employers want. If so few qualify for the basic standards for military service, how does that bode for the economic future of this country? Do you really want some uneducated, overweight, bipolar idiot with tats all over his/her body working for your company?
 
Not concerned at all.
The military, especially the combat units, have been having to deal with quality of recruit issues for quite some time.
It's definitely a mixed bag. I've been on 24 hour CQ suicide watch on some jackass who wanted to get kicked out of Basic Training because he's got "problems".
I've seen a guy who was a "model soldier" get cold feet on getting deployed. Anywhere. There's a term for guys like this. We call them "PX warriors". Always on the lookout to put one more ribbon on their chest without paying in blood, sweat, and tears. The rest of the soldiers appropriately shun guys like this and wish him to leave post-haste.
I've seen Infantry officers lose their enthusiasm for grunt-life because of the bureaucracy and brown-nosing nature of being an officer.
I've seen a Army Reserve Drill Sergeant puke his guts out on a easy PT run while the recruits who were hardly winded looked on in utter disbelief.

Not just a job! It's an adventure!
 
"Youre saying that the military, with complete control over what I eat and how often I exercise and sleep cant make me lose or gain any amount of weight? I call BS on this one."

Then you would be wrong, USAF basic is 6 weeks, Navty & Army not much more with numbers showing based on the initial training they won't lose the weight. The Marines wioth a 3 month boot camp last I checked are the ONLY branch willing to gamble on the weight loss.
Hell we used to send many back from Basic Air Force training that were too out of shape to complete, or they suddenly developed "asthma" etc.
This article is so ridiculous, go talkt to a recruiter about the ridiculous DQ rate on prescreening & at the MEPS physical, Screw the guy said recuiters are using this stuff as an excuse in the article...
CT
 
And here's one we can blame our ultra-left "take a pill for anything" public schools for.

_a near-epidemic rise in the use of Ritalin and other stimulants to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Potential recruits are ineligible for military service if they have taken such a drug in the previous year.

To get by the teachers want to drug the class into submission... :fire:
 
It is incredibly difficult for an Army recruiter to find qualified applicants and place them into the Army. A Recruiter's goal if it hasn't changed is two a month. This is with these recruiters humping 12 to 16 hour days if not more.
Recruiters face incredible pressure to "make it happen" and God don't let me "roll doughnuts" Zero for the month. It is not easy to find and place into the army qualified applicants. Ask an Army recruiter.
 
Youre saying that the military, with complete control over what I eat and how often I exercise and sleep cant make me lose or gain any amount of weight? I call BS on this one.

It's not BS man.

Army bootcamp is only like 8-9 weeks IIRC. That's not enough time to get a fat slob in shape while making him into a professional soldier. You have to start with quality people to begin with to have a good military. If you recruit low quality people you get GIGO. Garbage in, Garbage out.

Even if the fat slob does make it out of boot camp, he'll probably just cause more problems when he gets to his unit. The military doesnt control what you eat once you get to your unit. You're free to go to the chow hall or eat McDonalds on base for every meal if you want. In that case the fat slob will just get fat again. The military will put him on weight control and make him run remedial PT and invest all kinds of resources in trying to get this person to maintain minimum standards. After a couple years of being a drain on his unit, the fat slob will probably be processed out for being worthless.

Army recruiting standards are already lower than the Marines and AF.. they dont need to lower them any further.
 
I know that a friend's daughter is in the chairforce and she has very high muscle density so although she has no body fat they constantly give her ???? about her weight. She ends up taking water pills before her physicals. I just assumed that a genuine fatty would get nothing but grief 24/7, like Pvt Pyle from full metal jacket.
 
I'm surprised they give her a hard time. There are two ways of testing. If you're over the weight limit, they measure your body fat.
 
Hey, did anyone ever watch Strangers With Candy?

Notice anything about the reporter's name?
 
I know a lot of guys who went on crash diets in order to meet height/weight standards in order to join. I know them because they managed to lose the weight and are now in the army.

While the army can 'encourage' you to lose weight during basic and can put some pressure on you after you get to your unit, they can't force you to keep it off and people get chaptered out all the time because they are lardasses who lack the self control to push themselves away from the table. Some standards for recruits are perfectly reasonable. What makes no sense is a weight standard that is not tied to physical fitness or actual body fat (The tape test doesn't work very well for athletic individuals). My unit does not do actual body fat testing, if you fail the tape test you get bounced needs of the army. We have had several guys who are build like tanks, can score 290 plus on the APFT (that's really good), but who failed the tape test and got booted even though their actual body fat was probably only 10%.

As for Ritalin, the military has backed off considerably on this one. What the army wants before they let you in is for you to demonstrate an ability to function without use of the drug. I was a ritalin kid and I had absolutely no problems getting in as I was able to show that I had not had any for several years prior to enlisting.

I know a lot of guys with lots of tattoos. It is my understanding that as long as you do not have any extremist, gang related, or indecent tattoos you can get a waiver. The others can be removed or covered up.

I have nothing against intelligence and education requirements. I have seen some real mouth breathers who were hazardous to themselves and others, and they were in the military. I can't even imagine the kind of people that were actually turned away.

That being said, I know a lot of guys who had to hide previous injuries, past drug use, etc. in order to get into the military. So far they have been able to exceed all the standards, but if they ever have a problem they could get chaptered out under false enlistment. Basically the army covers it's butt by making it overly difficult for regular people to get in.
 
Total non-story. Of course, most young people are not eligible for enlistment in the armed forces. As one who did a tour in recruiting (non-vol, but a good career move, as it turned out), I became quickly appalled at just how sorry things were turning out in the generation that constituted most of the recruiting pool ...

This is, after all, the video game era, and it's certainly evident that physical education is almost completely absent from our school systems nationwide. Drug use among teens is once again increasing (and yes, it can be a disqualifier); police involvement (of the wrong kind) is common, and ... the school systems are not adequately preparing their students for even such a basic test battery as the Armed Services Vocation Aptitude Battery (ASVAB), used for qualifying for enlistment and training.

Basically the army covers it's butt by making it overly difficult for regular people to get in.
Simply not true. The military branches cover their respective butts by making it overly difficult for those who probably will not make it through their first enlistment to get in ... The armed forces are playing the numbers, and with the amount of money it costs to train a single soldier, Marine, sailor or airman just through basic training and one school for MOS/rating -- it makes sense to keep out those who would probably quickly wash out anyway.

Having said all this, I was always impressed with the overall caliber of people my branch did accept for enlistment. There are still many bright, motivated and physically fit young people out there ... But it sure doesn't seem that way when it's the 25th of the month and you're still shy of goal by two applicants ...
 
Besides being overweight I believe that the biggest thing preventing people from enlisting is Asthma. That is what preventing me from joining (even though I was a semi-pro cyclist at the time).
 
Holey gamoley...

And here's one we can blame our ultra-left "take a pill for anything" public schools for.

Quote:
_a near-epidemic rise in the use of Ritalin and other stimulants to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Potential recruits are ineligible for military service if they have taken such a drug in the previous year.

To get by the teachers want to drug the class into submission...

I must have slept through the class where they told me public school teachers were able to prescribe medicines. It takes an actual medical doctor to diagnose ADD or ADHD and an actual medical doctor to prescribe any sort of medicine to counter the symptom of those particular conditions.

It has been my direct experience that parents are actually the driving force behind the increase in identification of ADD/ADHD and the resultant prescription of medications. I checked...I'm not allowed to make doctor appointments for my students, much less be in position to put any pressure at all on the doctor to make any diagnosis or prescribe any medication.

Of course, as usual, any reason to bash public school teachers.

migoi
 
Crazed_SS: Sorry that most of America isn't into being a member of your Super Race.

As for Fat Slobs.

Yeah I'm a big guy,But this big fat guy has put many of your types lights out in short order.

Ever want to hear what a want to be Nazi sounds like after he has just had a size 15 boot thourghly planted in his rectum?
 
Migoi-------As a physician I disagree with you. Most the children I see who come in thinking they have ADD, ADHD have been pressured by the school to do so. They do a little screening exam. They tell the parents they really need to take their child to the physician. They tell them they can not teach their child till their behavior is controlled. Did you know parents can get disability checks for these children>>>>>>>>>>> Well I know children are overmedicated. I refuse to make the diagnosis. I send them to a special clinic at a Childrens Hospital. I hate to say it but they all get put on medication. I is a fad that is growing. I think there is something wrong with the school systems as how it treats boys. I think they are trying to take being male out of them. They are poorly educated compared to girls. Parents wake up the schools are a danger to you sons. They are not learning or going to college at the same rate as the girls. Something is definately wrong. I have seen pediatricians put 2 year old children on these drugs. Something is wrong. Go back just 20 years and where were all these children with ADD and ADHD then??????????
 
I think most people can be molded into most things. If you sign up an ignorant obese delinquent for five years and have the authority to kick his butt around, why wouldn't you be able to restructure him as required? People are far more adaptive than being given credit, especially nowadays when convenience and whining are at their height. Pressure properly applied and coupled with mentorship can work miracles.

"Your ass is mine!"
 
Thank you Kim...:)

Something is definately wrong. I have seen pediatricians put 2 year old children on these drugs. Something is wrong. Go back just 20 years and where were all these children with ADD and ADHD then??????????

Yes indeed. When I went to school during the 40's and 50's (some think the 1750's) students weren't medicated. We were also expected to pay attention and learn, and we got out butts kicked if we didn't. Teachers had a few disruptive students, but they handled them without trying to blame some syndrome or "condition." They also got the respect they deserved.

Times have sure changed. :banghead:
 
Crazed_SS: Sorry that most of America isn't into being a member of your Super Race.

As for Fat Slobs.

Yeah I'm a big guy,But this big fat guy has put many of your types lights out in short order.

Ever want to hear what a want to be Nazi sounds like after he has just had a size 15 boot thourghly planted in his rectum

Lol.. I'm black dude.. Far from a Nazi :)

Sorry if i offended with the fat slob comment... but my point still stands. People are are out of shape are a drain on their unit and degrade training for everyone else. Remember Pyle from "Full Metal Jacket"? .. it's just like that in boot camp. If one recruit cant keep up, it makes it that much harder for all the other recruits. The Drill Instructor has to then dedicate a disproptional amount of time towards a few guys because they are behind the power curve to begin with.

Being fat in the Marines is not a good thing. They're subjected to constant verbal abuse and put downs. Most of them become discouraged and end up faking shin splints or something so they dont have to run anymore. They end up constantly having some medical condition that keeps them from PTing. They get fatter and eventually get kicked out.

If you fail the Initial Strength Test in Marine Corps boot camp, they assign you to something called "Physical Condition Platoon".. AKA Pork Chop Platoon. They PT people to death and then allow them to pick up with a normal platoon. Even after spending 2 months in PCP, many of the guys still couldnt keep up with average recruits.
 
I think most people can be molded into most things. If you sign up an ignorant obese delinquent for five years and have the authority to kick his butt around, why wouldn't you be able to restructure him as required? People are far more adaptive than being given credit, especially nowadays when convenience and whining are at their height. Pressure properly applied and coupled with mentorship can work

Well.. You dont have the authority to kick their butts around. You cant physically make anyone do anything.

When it comes down to it, all you can do is try to motivate someone by training them, working with them, yelling at them, etc. In the end, it's up to the individual person to improve himself. The military, especially the Marines, doesnt want people that will need a whole bunch of extra motivation to get up to speed.
 
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