Military Shuns Many of Recruiting Age

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A couple of things...

The teachers have zero influence with the doctors. None, they will not even confirm that a given student is a patient... some silliness about confidentiality. How can it possibly be the teacher's fault if a doctor is over diagnosing any given condition?

I send them to a special clinic at a Childrens Hospital. I hate to say it but they all get put on medication. I is a fad that is growing.
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Sounds like to me the problem is in the medical community. Again, any excuse to bash public school teachers.

Refusing to teach a student because a parent didn't take them to a doctor and get a specific diagnosis or medicine is against the law. In public schools we have to teach them all.

Old Fluff... I agree there is something wrong with the disciplinary standards in todays schools. I invite you to become part of any school and attempt to apply the disciplinary standards of the 40's and 50's (even the 60's... I can remember my principal spanking me with a very large tennis shoe when I was in 5th grade). I'll even chip in $100 for your legal fees/bail in fighting the lawsuit/s (probably plural) you'll be facing or helping get you out of jail when booked for assault.

Yes, I do understand that PARENTS can sometimes make financial gain by having their child diagnosed with certain conditions. The school on the other hand incurs a huge additional load of work, accountability, and mandated meeting/procedures/requirements with no additional resources until at least the following school year.

Explain to me again how this theory works where the schools are to blame for the over diagnosis of certain conditions? It's not adding up.

migoi
 
Yep, this hits home. Signed up for the Marine Corps when I was 17, was in the DEP for awhile. Got sick, they did some blood tests and came back with a transparent rheumatoid condition (which is crap, and some doctors dont believe exists, it's a catchall for a variety of symptoms that defy classification and require blood work). Got med dropped, tried to get back in after 9/11, and then talked to a skeptical Army Guard recruiter last year.

But it's B.S. My g/f is getting back in and routinely acknowledges I'm in far, FAR better health. The people I know that ARE in are not in great shape, physical or medical. I on the other hand am height/weight proportionate, active, and haven't been to the doctor in about 4 years. The only prescription med I've had since then has been percocet for oral surgery.

It's idiotic, they're overlooking a LARGE body of functionally viable candidates who can and want to do the job. I almost have a college degree, I scored a 99 on my ASVAB, and dammit I WANT to serve my country for that reason. I doubt highly the military will pay me the nearly $38,000 the private sector paid me last year.
 
Crazed_SS:Sorry man (It was a Knee jerk reaction to the "SS" at the end of your name)

But yeah the fat slob comment got me bent out of shape for a second.
But I know what you mean though as far as "You're only as fast as your slowest man"

Sorry for the Knee jerk reaction.

I've had to take care of more than a few Neo-Nazi's,and if I see "SS" or "88" at the end of their name,it works me into a frenzy.

Again sorry for the Knee jerk.
 
Crazed_SS:Sorry man (It was a Knee jerk reaction to the "SS" at the end of your name)

But yeah the fat slob comment got me bent out of shape for a second.
But I know what you mean though as far as "You're only as fast as your slowest man"

Sorry for the Knee jerk reaction.

I've had to take care of more than a few Neo-Nazi's,and if I see "SS" or "88" at the end of their name,it works me into a frenzy.

Again sorry for the Knee jerk.
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Ahh ok.. lolz no prob.. the SS is because I have a Camaro SS :)
I usually post on car boards.. :)
 
When I was in Basic Trainning, many-many years ago, a very high percentage of my fellow recruits were there as a plea bargainning deal for some minor crime they had been found quilty of.:eek: Deal was go to jail for a few months or maybe years or join the military and many chose to join the military.:neener: Many were only 17 years old and I was 20. I enlisted to dodge the draft.:uhoh:
 
migoi:

Explain to me again how this theory works where the schools are to blame for the over diagnosis of certain conditions? It's not adding up.
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Sure, be glad to…

Teacher, tired of “Little Troublemaker” acting up, and now a self-appointed expert on everything including child psychology after coming out of the university with a teaching degree, recommends that L.T. be checked out for ADD or whatever the latest PC disorder is. Even provides the parents with a doctor’s name.

Child is examined and found to have said disorder. Medication is recommended, and sometimes imposed by suggestion that if the parents don’t go along the state’s Child Protective Service may be called in.

Now it’s decided that L.T. needs to be placed in Special Education classes because of his/her supposed disability. After placement the school system makes a ton of money from the Feds. But does little or nothing for the student, who is simply warehoused. Down the road the kid ends up for all practical purposes a functional illiterate.

I have yet to see a case where a student was put on medication where the original recommendation or suggestion didn’t come first from his/her teacher.

Kim hit the nail on the head… This is a game that the educational establishment and some medical providers play for their mutual financial benefit. Take away the Title II (Special Education) incentives and most of the medication would end.
 
When I was in Basic Trainning, many-many years ago, a very high percentage of my fellow recruits were there as a plea bargainning deal for some minor crime they had been found quilty of. Deal was go to jail for a few months or maybe years or join the military and many chose to join the military
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That brings back some memories. I enlisted in 1970, before VOLAR, and my basic training company had several of these guys. Some were AWOL in the first couple days (mostly junkies, no great loss, living with junkies really sucks-), some got acquainted with the UCMJ in fairly short order, and some straightened out and found a home.

We also had a 'pork chop platoon', though they were referred to as 'bolos' and they did a lot of PT. Most of them were motivated to shape up, they just needed some work and a healthier lifestyle (if you could call Vietnam-era military service a "healthier lifestyle":neener: ). The unmotivated or 'problem childeren' just didn't last, and it was a waste of time and resources, they should never have been 'in' to begin with.

The more things change, the more they reamin the same; recruiting standards tend to become a bit more 'flexible' during wartime.
 
Teacher, tired of “Little Troublemaker” acting up, and now a self-appointed expert on everything including child psychology after coming out of the university with a teaching degree, recommends that L.T. be checked out for ADD or whatever the latest PC disorder is. Even provides the parents with a doctor’s name.
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Yep, mainly young female teachers don't like the rowdy boys so drug him is the alternative method. Cannot paddle
so drug them. Excellent choice.

We have become a society who desires others to do our labor, clean our yards,bathrooms and yes do our fighting. We watch tv too much, talk on cell phones about nothing for hours, set in front of computers like I am engaged in now.

We ship our manufacturing work to third world countries while permitting the third world people to come here all in all a receipt for disaster it's only a matter of time.:cuss:
 
Way different perspectives operating here....

A couple of difficulties with your perspective, OF:

A teacher can only recommend a child be taken to the doctor. He/she can in no way force or even coerce a parent to do so. Going to CPS because a parent won't go get their child evaluated for ADD/ADHD or even put on medication will get you laughed right off the phone line or out of the office. CPS is waaaay too busy dealing with the parents that beat their children, use their children as drug runners, molest their children, prostitute them out to "uncles", not feed them, use them as slave labor in the family business until way after they should have been in bed, or send them to school in the same filthy clothes 3 days in a row.

Is ADD/ADHD over diagnosed...from my experience yes. Has a single teacher ever diagnosed ADD/ADHD or prescribed medicine for it..no (not allowed). As Kim noted, when she turns the PARENT down for said diagnosis she then in turn sends the parent to another medical care professional who she knows will give them said diagnosis and prescribe the medication the parents are looking for.

As far as the "special education incentives", all I can say is that the funding pipeline doesn't work the way you seem to think it does. Ten days after the first day of school the official student count is taken and our resources for the year are set at that time. If a child is deemed special education eligible after that point then the school incurs additional lawful responsibilities for providing certain services, maintaining an amazing amount of paperwork and accountability, and is committed to providing multiple personnel for many, many team meetings to come up with strategies for how to teach the student and then executing those strategies. Any failure to get the student to progress, failure to word proposed solutions or teaching strategies in an exact certain way, or to immediately respond to the parent's demands will result in more time and resources taken up dealing with a due process hearing. All of this without any new resources for the rest of that school year. Only if the student is still in the school at the beginning of the next school year will the school see any benifit (usually by counting the student as 1.3 children instead of 1 child).

Are there things wrong with our schools, yes. The reality though is that just about everything I see as having gone askew in our schools is the result of a parent pushing for it to be done that way (usually from behind a lawyer and with the force of a court order driving compliance).

It has been my direct experience that when a teacher identifies that student whose activity level is an order of magnitude above every other childs the first thing out of the parent's mouth during the meeting is: "Yes, I know Keoki is way out of control, you should see what he does to our house. I just don't know what to do with him." When the teacher tries to give suggestions of possible behavioral strategies the parent usually claims they don't have time. All suggestions short of medical diagnosis and medication are regularly dismissed out of hand by the parent and often it is the parent that is the first one in the room to suggest a medical visit might be in order.

But then, any excuse to bash public school teachers.

migoi
 
Yes indeed. When I went to school during the 40's and 50's (some think the 1750's) students weren't medicated. We were also expected to pay attention and learn, and we got out butts kicked if we didn't.
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Ditto for the '60s and early '70s, at least when I went to school. Notice that there were no reports of school shootings either, in those days (pre-'68) of mail-order gun sales and no Ritalin prescriptions. Hmmm . . .

But I digress.

If it's so easy to be DQ'd from military service today, just think - for a moment - about how easy it will be to dodge any future draft, in the unlikely event it's brought back.
 
public schools.

Migoi is 100% correct on this one...

We are explicitly told in no uncertain terms that we are NOT under ANY circumstances to speak to a parent or student about medical or mental alternatives. If we do and they take us up on it then the school system is liable for the cost of treatments from then on.

It is the counselor's job to make these types of calls. It is usually avoided like the plague.

A story a principal told me: A boy was causing disruption to no end. He never was violent or anything of the sort just constant disruption. The principal suspected something was wrong but could not make the suggestion of a doctor. When the Mother mentioned a medical exam, the principal said that would probably be what he would do if it was his kid.

Turns out the boy was ALLERGIC TO HIS CLOTHES. After some shots and a daily allergy medication he was a model student.

Point is, the principal's hands were tied. I have to agree with migoi that the schools are not totally at fault. If a parent wants their kid doped, they can get them doped. Then they will require the school to give their child preferential treatment and give them a diploma for doing basically nothing while an aide paid with taxpayer money follows them around with toilet paper.

I am fastly becoming aware of the fact that everything on this board is supposed to be "high road" except for insulting teachers and police officers.

Brandon,

Who is an idiot public school teacher that can teach everything in a Science Building as well as Welding, Machine Tool and other things. Who is working to make things better even though he could be making more money elsewhere.

Talk about armchair commandos...when was the last time any of you complainers visited a school board meeting or town hall meeting? Sounds to me like you are getting exactly what you asked for.
 
An ex-AF friend of mine tried to join the Air National Guard a few years ago, but was rejected because he has a tottoo below his elbow. Nothing objectionable, just a little surfer design that he drew himself. This guy is a trained crew-chief who did 6 years active.

He went through the whole process, and then was turned down at his swearing-in in front of his family.

Now he's a Seabee instead, and a damned good one. AF's loss, our gain :neener:
 
Beerslupy-- Your friends daughter is blowing smoke up your skirt. We in the "Chairforce" as you call it have a fitness program that relies on situps, pushups, 1.5 mile run, and adominal measurement (plus a BMI correction if needed). If she has a big gut and can't run -- she won't do well; otherwise, it's a piece of cake.
 
O:K I get it now it is not the teacher (but it is still the government school ) it is the counselor or the school nurse. Now our schools have all the ancillary people our children are healthy, bright, well mannered and doing fine. I forgot it is the school nurse who has sent the little checked off note that the parents bring in . Yea and the parents are pissed and I don't blame them. I see the little notes :ears are red. I see the ear send back No They are not. Parent out 45.00 or tax payer out some smaller amount. I do not know how I survived childhood with no school nurse or counseler. But of coarse I went to the doctor only 2 times. Now the Pediatricians want to see YOUR kid at birth, 2,4,6,9,12,15, and 24 months and once a year thereafter so they can ask their social engineering questions and get paid. And they will sent you a little card to make you feel guilty and not forget. Marketing is a fine thing. Watch out that Village Hillary talks about is raising your child already. I do feel sorry for teachers I have 5 in my family. The problem is their Union does nothing but make the problem worse. My family members quit the Union years ago.
 
Kim...

I'm not quite sure I understand your last post but it seems you're pretty pissed off at the members of your profession (doctor, as stated in a previous post).

I"m sure if we give some members of this board a certain amount of time though they will manage to figure out a way to blame public school teachers (or failing that...cops) for this:

Now the Pediatricians want to see YOUR kid at birth, 2,4,6,9,12,15, and 24 months and once a year thereafter so they can ask their social engineering questions and get paid.
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migoi
 
+1 Kim

Today's children often fall victims of the unholy union of bad parents, healthcare business, and social engineers.

Last time I checked, the responsibility of teachers is to teach, not to provide upbringing in lieu of dysfunctional families and deadbeat parents. And people that do not want to be parents shouldn't have children. That's why I am pro-abortion.
 
BIGJACK said:
When I was in Basic Trainning, many-many years ago, a very high percentage of my fellow recruits were there as a plea bargainning deal for some minor crime they had been found quilty of. Deal was go to jail for a few months or maybe years or join the military and many chose to join the military. Many were only 17 years old and I was 20. I enlisted to dodge the draft.
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I cannot help but laugh. I have been following this thread all day and was thinking about something along the same lines. A certain member of my family, who shall remain nameless, was given an ultimatum in the mid 1960s after being apprehended by the police following several moving violations (ie: high speed chase from the cops). The mayor of the town was a family friend and pulled a few strings. His options were show up at the USMC recruiting office the next day, or show up at the police station. He chose the USMC.
 
they say life out the military is sedentary? Im a navy nuke, reactor operator to be precise. im comming up on 2 years in, of which I've spent 2 years sitting at a desk or a control panel.

I HATE PT, but i do it 3 times a week because i know that if i dont im gonna balloon way out of standards. In my own little way i do envy the guys in other branches that get to run around and do military type things. I feel like homer, only with the captain wont let me drive :neener:
 
Where people are talking about BMI and making weight, the military is not exactly scientific on this one.

I am 6'3". I weigh 230 pounds. FWIW, I wear 36x36 pants, have a size 17 shoe and a size 15 glove. Not a small dude by any imagination.

According to the Navy's weight standards I am "grossly overweight". Not supposed to weigh over 216.

The ONLY other "legal" method for making Body Fat Composition is what we call the "rope and choke". They take your waist circumfrence, and subtract your neck circumfrence and then compare that to a chart.

I have a small neck in proportion to the rest of me (16") and the ONLY place I put ANY fat on is my gut (and it is not that much)

Now the "real" methods to measure, the immersion (boyancy) test, and capacitance test are more accurate, but NOT LEGAL to use for the PFA. 22% MAX BODY FAT allowed.

According to the tests/charts:

Height/Weight: 28%
Rope/Choke: 26%
Immersion: 18%
Capacitance 19%

This has been a pet issue of mine as I am 1 PFA away from being thrown out of the navy for being a "lard butt". I pass Push Up/Sit Up/Run well within standards every time.

This pic is from Christmas, and it is the heaviest I have been. 240.

Mewithnew45-2-small.JPG


Sorry for the rant, but this discussion and saying that "you can get around the weight if you pass run/situp/pushup" while true in the past, is no longer true. At least not for USN/USMC
 
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