Million Mom Marchers - analysis?

[deafsg1]

Hey gang,

This is a partial posting from the archives of The Firing Line, nearly 8 years ago.

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Item: In Fort Collins Colorado, the Million Mom Marchers advertised in the local newspaper a meeting of theirs to take place in a Church featuring a speech given by Tom Mauser, whose son was killed in the Columbine massacre. When gun rights activists, known as the Tyranny Response Team (http://www.trteam.com), showed up to attend the meeting, there was a guard posted at the door who attempted to prevent them from entering the Church. The guard even went to the trouble of calling the police to help him prevent the gun rights activists from attending the meeting. Only problem was when the cops showed up, they did indeed ask the gun rights activists to leave, but admitted that legally they couldn't do anything to stop the TRT from attending the meeting, and had to allow the TRT members to go in. During the meeting, one of the "Mom's", Cherie Trine, approached the TRT members, screaming at them, "We need your names. You have to sign in." One of the TRT members was videotaping and Trine swung her clipboard, smashing it into the video camera, pushing it into the mans eye and causing an injury. About a week later, Trine was cited for third degree assault, a class 1 misdemeanor. Class 1 misdemeanors are punishable by between 6 & 18 months in jail and a fine of $500 - $5,000, according to CO Revised Statutes.

Item: At another MMM meeting, a 10 year old TRT member is handing out free copies of the Constitution of the United States, one of the MMMer's, grabs one from the kid and promptly tears it in half.
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WIH is this? Is MMM a group of blueheads in disguise? It's apparent that she doesn't believe in the US Constitution whatsoever.

More follows...

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Item: In Philadelphia, Independence Mall, in the shadow of the Liberty Bell, during the pre-Republican Convention weekend, a pro-gun rights known as the Second Amendment Sisters (http://www.sas-aim.org) began to set up their display. Including a table of books, pamphlets and other Second Amendment Sisters-related materials. Second Amendment Sisters spokesperson Maria Heil and other SAS members were away for a few moments getting more display materials on the other side of Independence Park. It was that moment the "Million Moms" chose to strike. When Maria returned, the table was completely bare, save for their American flags that had Million Mom March buttons pinned to them. Maria and members of the Independence National Park Police went looking for the materials, finally finding them inside a park garbage can about a block away. Luckily, the garbage can had been lined with a brand new plastic garbage bag and there was no trash in it. The printed materials were completely unsoiled.

Item: At Washington DC, during the famous Million Mom March, many instances are reported of Million Mom Marchers approaching gun rights activists and threatening physical violence and openly cursing in the presence of children. One making the shape of guns with his hand, pointed at his own head, and suggested "You love guns so much, just kill yourselves, go ahead and kill yourselves".
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It's like being gay. If you are afraid of something that is very fundamentally true about you, yet you want to deny it because of shame, the damage to your livelihood, political standing, your ideology, whatever, you will do what you will to keep things where they are, comfortably within control. The truth seems so scary - my point in a gun-control scenario is that they may be entirely frightened by what they see in themselves, especially the Christians. I'm guessing that most branches of Christians know full well from teachings that they see themselves as fallen creatures, that there is good and evil in them. So, gun control may be a means to hide from the fact that all of us are capable of anything if prodded in the right circumstances. There is no way to get away from that. You cannot ever lower your guard, ever. History is full of examples of human failure, from the Burnt City in Iran to ancient Eqypt to the Dark Ages to the World Wars to today. It never ends and repeats itself. I have to commend every pro-gun individual including myself for being able to see that aspect of ourselves and acting accordingly. Consider the following:

The real meaning of enlightenment is to gaze with undimmed eyes
on all darkness - Nikos Kazantzakis 1883-1957, Greek Writer

So, my question is - is it a combination of my observations? I'm just now getting into this after reading the Rifle Country archives going all the way back, ditto for the shotgun and the handloading & reloading lines. I'm just getting back to going through the Legal and Political line over at TFL to educate myself on what has happened in the last 10-15 years since I was out of firearms for about 20 years. My interest is especially in the Smith and Wesson Agreement of 2000 and what happened to it. Currently, I'm in late 2000, but I know from gun shop practices today that least some things didn't go through and that gun manufacturers have protection from frivolous lawsuits.

 

[novaDAK]

MMMers are a violent bunch of people I guess?

They're on the loosing side of the battle so maybe they're mad?

I don't know.

 

[230RN]

"The end justifies the means" goes hand in hand with passionate self-righteousness.

Passionate self-righteouness goes hand in hand with inability to understand any other position.

 

[TAB]

any group that has rosie odonnell as a spoksperson, has to have something wrong with them. Do a search on Youtube... they really do have some issuses.

 

[Pax Jordana]

I hate being the devil's advocate, as the pay's so lousy
Think of it from their perspective.

As a MMMer, you feel (like anybody else) that the world is in tragic disarray. Yet you see the problem as rather simple, with a simple solution. Standing against you is a behemoth political force made of fervent believers, who are actively proselytizing against your cause. And you know, you KNOW, that you could FIX things, and make them better for everyone, if only you could get enough people to work with your cause.

So to have that behemoth lobby, composed mostly of men, come to your protest and really put a damper on things must be frustrating. Then people start to talk, and their convoluted logic seems valid but leads to a conclusion you know in your heart will only lead to more killing.


of course they're gonna be upset. This battle won't ever end.

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

well

they are pawns in a larger game than they realize.

the are insecure.

the are uneducated on history and the role of citizens in a free society.

they haven't had the chance to truly operate in an equal relationship with a strong and good man.

they have never fought for their freedom or their life.

they are sheltered.

they don't get enough.


st

 

[Joe Demko]

Overly emotional zealots can be found as part of any organization devoted to a political cause. No surprise that the MMM has some. We have some too.

 

[Nobody's_Hero]

At least they "march." It seems fitting, don't you think?

 

[HK G3]

Every large demonstration has bad apples and nutjobs.

I guarantee that the pro-gun side had some people engaging in some... unsavory... behavior as well - that's just what happens when you have a confrontation of very passionate, opinionated people. It's unfortunate, but civil political discourse is very hard to come by these days.

Pointing out the scuffles and verbal fights during very large protests is basically grasping at straws. Now, if the whole demonstration organized chants with obscenities, or calls for the "NRA-types" to kill themselves, then that would be something worth mentioning.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I always liked to call them the "Millions of Misguided, Misinformed and Manipulated Marching Moms."

The whole thing was set up by a liar - a professional publicist posing as an ordinary housewife - and pumped up by the news media. There was wall-to-wall coverage of the first "march" while short shrift was given to that of the Second Amendment Sisters down the street.

 

[bloodedsky]

to samtuckermtnman....

who's to say those things don't apply to you, too? to all of us?

what in the world did these women's private relationships with men have to do with this? are we readers to infer that a) it is only through an "equal relationship with a strong and good man" that women achieve emotional balance and, hence, don't act like hellions?; and / or b) if these women had experienced such a relationship, they'd presumably be more welcoming to the gun crowd, since most of said gun crowd is male?

could it be that these women are educated about american history and the rights & responsibilities of american citizens, but that they don't share your opinions and interpretations of these entities? and that, like most human beings at some point or another, their behavior was irreprehensible?

your self righteousness with regards to these women, many of whom have lost loved ones to gun crime, is not well founded. for no one is perfect.

keep fighting for what YOU believe in, and don't make cheap shots at others. nor should you accuse your opponent of the same fallacy of which you are guilty.

think of your hero. would s/he have sallied forth with such hypocrisy?

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

could it be that these women are educated about american history and the rights & responsibilities of american citizens, but that they don't share your opinions and interpretations of these entities?

Well. Frankly, no.

Because if they were, they would not be fighting to stop the one amendment to the US Constitution that makes all of the others possible. One of the responsibilities of an american citizen, and one in uniform, is to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States. When you politicize "motherhood" in the name of 'security' and 'safety' for the children, and use the emotional response to further short sighted political goals, the ultimate end to which would mean disarmament of the common man and woman, then you are not acting on behalf of the ideals of the United States.

History shows that weapons of any sort in the hands of a commoner is a threat to elite power. It really is simple. When leaders fear the people, or condescend, or want to control and manipulate
THEY USE SIMPLE EMOTION TO DISARM, CREATE FEAR AMONG, AND CONTROL THEM

who's to say those things don't apply to you, too? to all of us?

what, not getting enough? Actually I'm happily married to a powerful and beautiful woman who takes good care of this man, as I do her. And she has sense enough to know that the family mossberg 500 will do a lot more to protect her child and person than....keychain mace or some car keys :banghead:

keep fighting for what YOU believe in, and don't make cheap shots at others. nor should you accuse your opponent of the same fallacy of which you are guilty.

I'm sure writing smart makes you feel good but...it has to make sense.

As for the good and strong man, I'm sure that would run over a woman who doesn't know what I am talking about...
but let me assure you that any empowered woman, who doesn't feel the need to "fight back" against perceived male "dominance", who has been married to an inspiring man who protects and loves his family with his own life, who has traveled and understood that self defense is not Jessica Alba on prime time, who realizes that the inherent differences between the sexes are mutually beneficial not competitive, AND who gets enough good play

is usually pro victim, NOT
pro criminal/government tyrant.

Bring it again, I love debate. I'll help you get better.

st



ps - I'll give you this...my comments were sardonic at best. I could have made it more High Road, but MMM, In My Opinion, is a fine example of idiocy in action. Someone's child was killed, well...look at America's history, or the world, and tell me that 150 million at the hands of authorities in the last 100 years alone is comparable to the dangers and risks of freedom in America. For my own child, I wish there were no weapons, I wish we lived in Heaven, I wish there was no need to "defend". But alas, reality and my utopia are quite disparate. And I cannot create the Utopia by forcing my small corner of reality out of shape with the rest of the world.

Get rid of evil, then I'll give you my weapon.

 

[bloodedsky]

*sighs and turns away* you just plain old did not get my point: you lack the moral high ground to say the things you said.

the "equitable relationship with a man" remains a hilarious non-sequitur.

i think you write "smart," too. if only it made sense.

 

[Joe Demko]

I think I will vomit on the next person who even implies any kind of connection between gender or sexuality and the use of firearms.
I think I will projectile vomit on the next person who makes a sweeping gender-based generalization.

 

[Craig_AR]

"I think I will projectile vomit on the next person who makes a sweeping gender-based generalization."

Women have twice as many sticky-outie-thingies as men!

Is that sweeping enough?
OK, I'm sorry. Just could not resist. Felt a sincere need to lighten up.


craig

\(*0*)/

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

im always lighter than i sound

*cleans vomit*

 

[The Deer Hunter]

I find it well, counterproductive, that an organization against what I assume to be against firearm violence is physically violent.

any group that has rosie odonnell as a spoksperson, has to have something wrong with them.

Anything that has to do with Rosie O`Donnell has to have something wrong with it.

 

[Thain]

Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us today.

-Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno

When the "useful idiots" happen to be aligned to the same cause as what Noam Chomsky called the "bought priesthood" (the media and the universities and the intellectual class are said to benefit from the political status quo and use their position to defend and support it.) Then you've got problems if you elong to the side that is against what they stand for.

Soros gives his secretw ords of wisdom to Oprah or Roise, who tend stand on the pulpit of television, and sing their lullaby to the somnambulant masses... who sleepwalk straight to the polling place.

 

[zoom6zoom]

One of our local members came up with a better name for them.
So now we call them "Gal-Quaeda"

 

[Billll]

You can join the MMM through the meetup.com. As a member there, I can report that the Denver metro area group is down to 8, including me, the coyote at this particular dog show.