MIM Parts Breakage
- Thread starter BlayGlock
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Thanks TJ. I am going to be purchasing another production 1911 in .45 and I wanted to quantiify which manufacturer is having these problems, or if it really is even a problem and not a bunch of internet nay-saying. If I get a large enough sample I will try and run some statistical analysis on it and get "scientific" with it.
Sheared a mag catch with a magazine at the counter. Don't know if the part was MIM, but the pistol was a Kimber.
I know there are other companies using MIM on pistols that aren't 1911s, and others that do use them in 1911s, but it seems to me that Kimber has had the most problems with the technology.
I guess the point for me is that if a pistol was designed to use MIM, like the locking block of a S&W M&P, the operating parameters of the part were designed in and expectations for the part can be predicted. Using MIM to replace a previously forged small part is a riskier proposition because the designer never accounted for the difference in part performance, no matter how marginal.
I don't have a problem with MIM. I have a problem with MIM misapplication.
I know there are other companies using MIM on pistols that aren't 1911s, and others that do use them in 1911s, but it seems to me that Kimber has had the most problems with the technology.
I guess the point for me is that if a pistol was designed to use MIM, like the locking block of a S&W M&P, the operating parameters of the part were designed in and expectations for the part can be predicted. Using MIM to replace a previously forged small part is a riskier proposition because the designer never accounted for the difference in part performance, no matter how marginal.
I don't have a problem with MIM. I have a problem with MIM misapplication.
jpwilly
Member
None so far in my Taurus PT1911...right around 4K rounds now.
HisSoldier
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My question is; Why pay that much money for MIM parts? I refuse to pay high prices for cheap parts.
Broken tip off of slide release on Kimber Series I. Pistol functioned fine, but wouldn't hold slide open after last round out. Replaced with Ed Brown slide release; perfect fit, functions perfectly.
But no other problems with pistol after several hundred rounds. The pistol is perfectly reliable, and accuracy exceeds my shooting ability.
But no other problems with pistol after several hundred rounds. The pistol is perfectly reliable, and accuracy exceeds my shooting ability.
GojuBrian
Member
How much is "that much money?"
You can't get a 1911 without mim for less than $1200 at the least. There are several kimbers than can be had for much less.
You only hear about kimbers because of how many they produce. Compare the production numbers of kimbers to the number of failures with all the other manufacturers and you will feel confident with a kimber.
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xXxplosive
Member
Please excuse my total ignorance on this one...But...what the heck does MIM stand for.....?
Brainfart.........
Brainfart.........
Occasionally I see older Colt's on the auctions that are in good shape but have worn cosmetics (carried much, shot little) in the $600 to $1000 range. All of these have no MIM parts unless a former owner replaced something.
But of course they aren't decked out with all of the latest gadgets and rails...
MIM = Metal Injected Molding, a process for making parts with metal particles and a binder. Think of cement with gravel in it.
Mikhail Konovalov
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Yes, an a post-Kahr AO 1911A1 PKZ.
First mag at the range, slapped it in, racked, and fired. The recoil was ungodly and the report seemed unusually loud. The sound almost seemed to hang.
Well, I knew -something- was wrong, so I ejected the mag and tried to lock the slide back, but the slide refused to move. With the safety on (Best I could do), I finally noticed the magazine. 3 out of 7 rounds were left.
I eventually managed to get the live round out of the chamber (Needed help, at 6'1" and 135, I was no powerlifter) and I took it to my local shop. Apparently some pin snapped in twain and, by some freak accident of physics, turned the sear into an auto-sear, hence the three-round burst at the range.
The shop owner replaced the pin and I've had no problems since, but it was still scary. I'm just glad I managed to hang on to the thing.
First mag at the range, slapped it in, racked, and fired. The recoil was ungodly and the report seemed unusually loud. The sound almost seemed to hang.
Well, I knew -something- was wrong, so I ejected the mag and tried to lock the slide back, but the slide refused to move. With the safety on (Best I could do), I finally noticed the magazine. 3 out of 7 rounds were left.
I eventually managed to get the live round out of the chamber (Needed help, at 6'1" and 135, I was no powerlifter) and I took it to my local shop. Apparently some pin snapped in twain and, by some freak accident of physics, turned the sear into an auto-sear, hence the three-round burst at the range.
The shop owner replaced the pin and I've had no problems since, but it was still scary. I'm just glad I managed to hang on to the thing.
HisSoldier
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I paid more than that for my Kimber, before I found out about the high MIM content. Never again!
I have a topnotch guild pistolsmith going through my series 80 Gold Cup right now. Among other things, he is to remove any and all MIM or cast parts, replace the plastic mainspring housing and hardchrome the whole thing. I don't know what parts on that vintage might be cast or MIM, if any. If they are there, they certainly have not caused any problems over the last 15 years but, given the first class job this guy will do, it just seems like The Right Thing To Do. That particular smith- Alex Hamilton at Ten Ring Precision says that he has not seen any problems with MIM parts but some of his fellow smiths have seen them.
stork
Member
Yup,
Loaded Springfield 1911, the thumb safety snapped. Called Springfield, they had a new one out to me the same week.
Loaded Springfield 1911, the thumb safety snapped. Called Springfield, they had a new one out to me the same week.
Eightball
Member
Nope.
Allow me to add: I absolutely love my Kimber, even though I had to replace the slide stop. It is totally reliable and very accurate. It is a fine gun. I wouldn't sell it for double the price I paid for it. I'm not worried about the other MIM parts in there. Forged parts can break, too. IMHO, people make too much of a fuss about MIM parts.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
xXxplosive: MIM is Metal Injection Molding.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Good MIM can be very good. Bad MIM can be worse than junk. It's not the process that's causing the problems, but rather the execution of the process.
I've got a pair of early 91A1 Colts that have seen about 360,000 rounds pretty much evenly split. They've been tightened up and refitted, and are both on their third barrels.
One came with an MIM disconnect and sear...the other with a machined sear and an MIM disconnect. Both are still running on their original sears, and one disconnect was replaced at the 75,000 round mark when I rebuilt the guns. It was worn a bit, but not broken. The other one is still functioning, as is the MIM sear. I have had similar reports from other 91A1 Colts, though not with the same round count. Mine are beaten like a red-headed stepchild, and have been since I bought'em. I've seen/heard of MIM parts failing early on in the gun's life...from hammers to grip safeties to you name it. Colt's MIM parts have been consistently good. Others have been hit and miss.
All this has led me to the conclusion that if an MIM part is going to fail, it'll do so early on. If it lasts for a thousand rounds, it'll likely last for 50,000.
In Kimber's early days, their MIM parts seemed to be as good as Colts, with few reported failures...either due to wear or breakage. That doesn't seem to be the case any more. I don't know whether to attribute it to a different vendor, or a vendor which has let the QA slip...or a vendor that's had to take short cuts in order to meet budget on a contract.
Flip a coin.
MIM doesn't seem to hold up well under impact stresses, especially if the part is thin in the cross-section. Neither does it function well as a spring, as Colt discovered when they tried MIM extractors for a short period of time. They've learned their lesson, and their extractors are now fully the equal of any aftermarket part, and superior to some.
The other problem is that it's tough to discern a good MIM part from a bad one with a visual inspection. Some show obvious voids, while others look fine, and never give a hint that they're bad until they let go.
By and large...on average...most "name" aftermarket MIM parts are good. A bad one will occasionally slip through, but it's not the norm. A few years back, I put a McCormick MIM slidestop through the wringer, and it never burped. I had it in several different guns, and it never failed to function...showed no undue wear...and is now doing yeoman service in a third, less heavily used range gun. I estimate that it's seen more than 60,000 rounds.
I've got a pair of early 91A1 Colts that have seen about 360,000 rounds pretty much evenly split. They've been tightened up and refitted, and are both on their third barrels.
One came with an MIM disconnect and sear...the other with a machined sear and an MIM disconnect. Both are still running on their original sears, and one disconnect was replaced at the 75,000 round mark when I rebuilt the guns. It was worn a bit, but not broken. The other one is still functioning, as is the MIM sear. I have had similar reports from other 91A1 Colts, though not with the same round count. Mine are beaten like a red-headed stepchild, and have been since I bought'em. I've seen/heard of MIM parts failing early on in the gun's life...from hammers to grip safeties to you name it. Colt's MIM parts have been consistently good. Others have been hit and miss.
All this has led me to the conclusion that if an MIM part is going to fail, it'll do so early on. If it lasts for a thousand rounds, it'll likely last for 50,000.
In Kimber's early days, their MIM parts seemed to be as good as Colts, with few reported failures...either due to wear or breakage. That doesn't seem to be the case any more. I don't know whether to attribute it to a different vendor, or a vendor which has let the QA slip...or a vendor that's had to take short cuts in order to meet budget on a contract.
Flip a coin.
MIM doesn't seem to hold up well under impact stresses, especially if the part is thin in the cross-section. Neither does it function well as a spring, as Colt discovered when they tried MIM extractors for a short period of time. They've learned their lesson, and their extractors are now fully the equal of any aftermarket part, and superior to some.
The other problem is that it's tough to discern a good MIM part from a bad one with a visual inspection. Some show obvious voids, while others look fine, and never give a hint that they're bad until they let go.
By and large...on average...most "name" aftermarket MIM parts are good. A bad one will occasionally slip through, but it's not the norm. A few years back, I put a McCormick MIM slidestop through the wringer, and it never burped. I had it in several different guns, and it never failed to function...showed no undue wear...and is now doing yeoman service in a third, less heavily used range gun. I estimate that it's seen more than 60,000 rounds.
xXxplosive
Member
Thanks guys for the explanation.......not to sound like a dumbass.
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