Mini/Small Revolvers?

[Kiln]

All this talk about .32 long. If I'm going to get wimpy, I'll go with a NAA Black Widow in .22 mag, just as effective, or at least has the potential to be just as effective, maybe more effective with the new Hornady .22 mag personal defense ammo designed for sub 2" barrels, if and when that stuff hits the market. My Black Widow is 3.5" at 25 yards accurate off the bench and shoots well off hand. Has a folding holster grip on it, Novak sights, and is tiny compared to my Taurus 85 or a J frame.

.22 mag from a 2" barrel puts up about 90-100 ft lbs. Best .32ACP from a small pocket gun puts up similar. .32 long really isn't loaded in great variety anymore with modern ammo, at least I don't think so. I wouldn't expect it to be as effective as .32ACP shooting modern .32 JHPs.

Hell, if I'm going to get THAT small, I'll take the .22 mag. I really do prefer my .38 or 9x19, though.

To be honest I have very little respect for the opinions of people who lord the .32acp over the .32S&W Long because there isn't THAT much difference between the two rounds performance wise...anybody who thinks that extra 135 fps turns the .32ACP into a much more superior round is at best ignorant and at worst just being an ass.

S&W Long: 90 gr LSWC 765 ft/s 117 ft·lbf

.32ACP: 71 gr FMJ 900 ft/s 128 ft·lbf

I also have to question the validity of anyone's opinion who actually recommends a single action five shot .22 MAGNUM over a double action six shooter chambered for .32S&W Longs.

 

[Onward Allusion]

MCgunner
All this talk about .32 long. If I'm going to get wimpy, I'll go with a NAA Black Widow in .22 mag

It's DA -vs- SA and 6 -vs- 5. A 32S&W Long has more punch than a 22 Mag out of a short barrel. There are serious considerations one has to make when comparing SA -vs- DA for a SD weapon (i.e. fumbling with cocking a tiny grip under stress).

 

[Kiln]

It's DA -vs- SA and 6 -vs- 5. A 32S&W Long has more punch than a 22 Mag out of a short barrel. There are serious considerations one has to make when comparing SA -vs- DA for a SD weapon (i.e. fumbling with cocking a tiny grip under stress).

Basically just quoted me but I completely agree.

 

[MCgunner]

Well, as one ass to another......I was just stating that the little mini is SMALLER THAN A DAMNED DA GUN! The caliber and the new Hornady ammution for it gives me about as much confidence in it as .32ACP, let alone the pathetic .32 Long. Also, I was just saying that the .32 ACP has more modern SD ammo available, wasn't commenting on the pathetic valocity of the obsolete .32 long vs the less pathetic velocity of the .32ACP, but now that you mention it...... I don't like .32ACP and don't own one, same goes for .32 Long. If I'm going to carry a gun the size of a .32 long, what's wrong with .38 special? If I gotta go mouser, I'll get something tiny that is accurate and with which I can hit, SA or no. Anyone that touts the .32 ACP over a bonified service caliber, say .357 magnum, is a...well, not an ass, just misinformed. Someone that calls someone an ass because they don't like a particular caliber, well, that's a little extreme.

There are small DA guns in .22 mag, too. Smith and Wesson makes some for the S&W Koolaid drinkers, I mean, if you're too lazy to cock a hammer and think you have any advantage over a skilled SA shooter. I think the OP is about something SMALLER than a J frame, though, and if I gotta go .32 Long to get small, hell, forget it. I have pants with bigger pockets that hold my 9mm or my .38 snub or I'll just compromise and carry my Black Widow.

 

[Kiln]

Personally, I'd rather have a slower round that is larger than a tiny round that leaves a pencil eraser sized hole in someone no matter how fast it is but I guess thats all a matter of opinion. I also don't think the FN 5.7 is some amazing design either because I'm not one of those people who believes that velocity and a small round make a great defensive weapon.

Just because you may be very skilled with absurdly small single action pistols doesn't mean the average person is going to be and in general its a better idea to have a double action pistol than a single for the simple reason that when adrenaline kicks in and I'm shaking from the stress, I don't want to have to pull an extremely small hammer back each time before firing the gun and guess what, neither do alot of people who depend on a handgun for defense.

I don't even own a pistol chambered for .32 Long but that doesn't mean I'm going to disrespect it either, its killed tons of people regardless of how "weak" or "ineffective" it is. It all comes down to personal preference, just because its not your favorite round doesn't make your choice of weapon any better.

Also the OP stated in the original post that the gun needed to be:

"bigger than the NAA Minis"

 

[mr_goodbomb]

That "pencil eraser sized hole" kills more people, and animals, each year than any other round.

 

[Kiln]

Thats because .22 ammo is the cheapest most abundant type of ammo around and there are a plethora of rifles/pistols chambered for it. I'd be willing to bet that there are even more attempted murder cases with the .22 than any other round because of the sheer quantity of these guns out there.

Back in the day there were tons of .25acp deaths but everyone is so quick to badmouth that round. Just because its used frequently doesn't mean its a death ray as I'm sure most can agree.

 

[mr_goodbomb]

The fact remains, it works, it's lethal, and the numbers are there to demonstrate that. No one is calling it a "death ray," I'm just calling it fully functional, and saying otherwise is moronic.

 

[Kiln]

The fact remains, it works, it's lethal, and the numbers are there to demonstrate that. No one is calling it a "death ray," I'm just calling it fully functional, and saying otherwise is moronic.

I wasn't arguing against that, I've got multiple .22 pistols and rifles in the gun cabinet right now and I have no doubts that they could kill someone IF you could get a perfect shot. The thing is that I've shot an armadillo 10 times in the body, reloaded and fired another magazine of stingers into him and still had to execute him with a headshot. I'm serious I shot the hell out of him and he still ran like crazy so I have very little faith in the .22 aside from its potential to kill someone with headshots.

At least with a larger round you've got a better chance of damaging vitals rather than just stabbing little holes through them. I'm not saying the .22lr is incapable of killing someone I just think it might take longer than I'd like with body shots to a human being.

 

[MCgunner]

.32 is just as pencil hole pathetic as .22 magnum for self defense. If you gotta get small, there just isn't anything in .32 that's worth dropping below a real self defense caliber for. I can hide a 642 about as easily as a .32 caliber RG and I know which one I'd rather be carrying. The only .32 I own is a .31 pocket Remington of the CVA persuasion and it's just a range toy, not a carry.

To the OP, consider, then, if .22 mag is out, the auto pistol. I don't think you'll find an adequate DA revolver below J frames in size, or significantly so, especially in a decent caliber. But, hell, an RG? REALLY? A Ruger LCP is at least 9mm in diameter, the Rohrbaugh is a full fledged 9x19. they're much easier to hide than a J frame and much more effective than a .32.

Anyway, I think the OP is not going to find the DA revolver he's specifying that I would want to carry. If he's okay with a .32 Long in an RG, well, maybe he can. If he's GOT to have a revolver, I'd suggest he buy pants with bigger pockets and get a 642 or something. Lots of people carry J frames. I don't know why they won't work if you give it a little effort.

My only point with the NAA is that if you gotta get small with a revolver, it's about the only way now days in a quality revolver. AND, .22 mag is NOT a lot less effective than the already pathetic .32s. I don't see a reason for any .32s, personally. If you need something that small, there is smaller, a lot smaller while not being much less effective, all I'm saying about the .22 mags. I carry .22 mag on rare occasion, well, most Sundays. I probably could carry my Kel Tec 9 or my .38, just feel like being ultra discrete in church. I know I can hit the sweet spot with the gun, at least. I have confidence in that, at least. I had an RG10, couldn't hit a barn door at 10 feet with it even when it did go off. It was an ill timed, POS. I was young, learned from that mistake.

 

[Kiln]

To the OP, consider, then, if .22 mag is out, the auto pistol. I don't think you'll find an adequate DA revolver below J frames in size, or significantly so, especially in a decent caliber. But, hell, an RG? REALLY? A Ruger LCP is at least 9mm in diameter, the Rohrbaugh is a full fledged 9x19. they're much easier to hide than a J frame and much more effective than a .32.

I had an RG10, couldn't hit a barn door at 10 feet with it even when it did go off. It was an ill timed, POS. I was young, learned from that mistake.

Some of the RGs work fine, not many of the earlier ones like the RG10/RG14s work well but some of them do and the RG23s I've had do what they're supposed to do every time. I'll admit that the RG 10 I had was a total POS but it was also one of the earliest models that Rohm made, they got a little better over time. Don't know if I'd go with any of the larger chamberings they built though.

I won't attack the .22lr anymore because it can be an effective round if the shots land well, Reagan was wounded by the .22lr, Brady was permanently disabled by one hit, and two other bodyguards were injured/incapacitated by one hit a piece...all by a little "POS" RG-14 revolver.

The RGs have their place whether people are willing to accept that or not. I'd rather have a little .22 than nothing and alot of people can't afford better than a $75 gun. Personally I use the RG23s for snake guns when I go fishing or checking the fence line and a .38sp in the sock drawer but thats just me, I'm sure tons of people still have RG revolvers stashed away from back in the mid 70's to the early 80's that will do what they need it to do.

 

[ThomasT]

I have a S&W 431PD that is in 32 mag and although it is a J frame gun it seems smaller than my Taurus 85. Maybe because it only weighs 13oz and you don't notice it in your pocket after a little bit.

Even with full power loads it doesn't hurt to shoot. With wadcutters loaded to 850fps its a dream to shoot. I paid $375 for mine several years ago and don't know what they go for now. But I bet its more than $450 or so.

I had a Beretta 950BS in 25 auto and if you could hold it, it would group surprisingly well. The problem was holding it. The smaller the gun the bigger this problem gets.

I have a couple of tiny RG 22s but I wouldn't wish them on anyone. They are just keepsakes and a reminder not to ever buy one. I got these free.

 

[I'm3rd]

"with a 1.5" barrel made of Titanium and about 10.5oz."

That's a great idea except I doubt that a gunmaker could build a 10.5 ounce double action centerfire caliber revolver of that weight using Titanium for the barrel and cylinder even if the frame could be made of a hi-strength plastic like the sub-frames of the ultra-lightweight .380s are. Of course the North American single action mini-revolvers have been on the market for years, but only chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges that have a poor reputation for self defense, especially when fired from extremely short barrels like the North American miniguns have.

And another drawback of the NA guns is that nowadays most knowledgeable people don't consider a single action revolver of any caliber to be a first class defensive weapon because of having to be manually cocked after each shot is fired. Old timers such as Hickok and Wyatt Earp managed to get by with nothing but SA guns to defend themselves with, but guys like them would probably have been deadly with 15th century firelock muskets if that was all they had to work with.

 

[ThomasT]

I guess its been a couple of years ago but here in Granbury Tx two punks broke into an old mans house and got a big surprise. The homeowner had one of the mini revolvers in his pants pocket and shot both punks with it.

It didn't kill them as far as I know but they did get carried off in an ambulance. Once again just having a gun saved somebodies life. A 22 isn't a very good defense round but it still beats having nothing. I bet there are two punks that will be a little more careful about who they attack in the future.

 

[evan price]

I've got an H&R 732 made in 1970's, snub nosed 32 Long. It has the swing-out cylinder. It's smaller than the J-frames I have.

H&R also made these in other barrel lengths. This one is a great tackle box gun.

I've been hotrodding 32 S&W Long ammo with my own cast bullets and over-max listed loads of fast powder. The H&R is all steel and seems to shrug off what I'm doing to it. It's no Colt or S&W but for under $100 it seems to work pretty good.

I've also got a Colt Police Positive (New Police) in .32 Colt New Police (32 S&W Long, since Colt refused to put a competitors' name on their guns). It is a small frame size, quite pocketable pistol. Smaller than a J-frame for sure.

 

[Tomcat47]

RG!

You know for years these have caught the flack!

And maybe in most cases rightly so.

They Have been called:

"Rotten Gun" "Real Gun" "Reagans Gun" .....

Among Other Names, but I aquired two of them in the mid 80's a .22 which I believe I traded off right after I got it because I had some Rugers.

But The one Below has been my beater since I aquired it.

A Model 39

And To Be Perfectly Honest Not a Hitch! Its a little clinky when you cock it but locks up super tight, has been VERY accurate believe it or not Shoots dead on! Thats probably why it sticks around. It has always been a "truck" gun for all intent purposes!

Had quiet a bit of snake shot shells through it over the years, A lot of lead and Hollow points. It has served me well. It is not my primary carry but has always been around. In Truck - In Tool Box - Etc.

I actually believe they were sued out of business after the Reagan incident???

 

[MachIVshooter]

with a 1.5" barrel made of Titanium and about 10.5oz

That's a great idea except I doubt that a gunmaker could build a 10.5 ounce double action centerfire caliber revolver of that weight using Titanium for the barrel and cylinder even if the frame could be made of a hi-strength plastic like the sub-frames of the ultra-lightweight .380s are

The .357 Magnum S&W 340/360 PD is only 11.4 ounces. I'm sure they could scale it down and shed an ounce for .32 caliber. But there just isn't much market for that right now.

 

[Remo223]

the old top break revolvers are midway between the NAA mini and a 5 shot J frame. 32 or 38 caliber, doesn't make a difference in size. Both are the same size revolver. One is a 5 shot, the other a 6 shot.

 

[Kiln]

I actually believe they were sued out of business after the Reagan incident???

The case that was brought against them was rejected but laws importing cheaply made handguns into the United States were passed shortly after the assassination attempt that left Brady paralyzed and these guns haven't been imported since the early 80s'. This was back in the day when it was the gun's fault when a shooting happened and not the guy pulling the trigger. Brady has been the poster child so to speak for the anti-gun community ever since he was shot.

Also I'm glad to hear that your RG revolver has served you well through the years.

 

[rogertc1]

Here is a cute little break top I have...i have a bunch more break tops in my collection.

 

[snooperman]

Yes, I believe a 10.5 oz double action revolver...

could be made, as I stated before. WHY? Smith & Wesson has made one called the 337PD that was 10.7 oz a few years ago in 38 special and also the 342PD that was 10.8oz as well. With a 1.5" barrel and Titanium and Scandium metals in 32 H&R magnum, I believe it is possible. As someone mentioned , it could be that they do not see the need for it. The reliability factor would be much greater than the little 10 oz 380s on the market. I also believe that a 5.5" "POCKET REVOLVER" like that would sell .

 

[batjka]

I've got an H&R 732 made in 1970's, snub nosed 32 Long. It has the swing-out cylinder. It's smaller than the J-frames I have.

H&R also made these in other barrel lengths. This one is a great tackle box gun.

I've been hotrodding 32 S&W Long ammo with my own cast bullets and over-max listed loads of fast powder. The H&R is all steel and seems to shrug off what I'm doing to it. It's no Colt or S&W but for under $100 it seems to work pretty good.

I've also got a Colt Police Positive (New Police) in .32 Colt New Police (32 S&W Long, since Colt refused to put a competitors' name on their guns). It is a small frame size, quite pocketable pistol. Smaller than a J-frame for sure.

Evan Price,

Can you post a photo of a j-frame next to a 732 and Colt Police Positive. Would like to see for a size comparison.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Onward Allusion]

Tomcat47
RG!
You know for years these have caught the flack!

RG revolvers are not as bad as so many claim. I had one in 22LR almost 30 years ago and it shot fine. Went bang every time the trigger was pulled. Accuracy was "good enough" for 10 to 15 feet.

 

[Steve 48]

I'll go with a NAA Mini Pug in 22 Magnum.

 

[MCgunner]

Watch out, Steve, you'll "lose respect" for that and be called names.