RevolvingGarbage
Member
Here is a quick (bad) picture comparing my Iver Johnson .38S&W Top break to my RG40 .38 special revolver.
Mini/Small Revolvers?
- Thread starter Mad Jack McMad
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MCgunner
Member
IIRC, didn't you originally have a cartridge head for a cylinder release on that RG? I thought that added some class. 
RevolvingGarbage
Member
MCgunner,
Indeed!
I lost that cylinder release in the woods, and as cool as it looked, the aluminum one works a little better. I will eventually get around to making another case head release, but I think I'm going to go with a nickle case and brass flat-head screw this time!
Indeed!
I lost that cylinder release in the woods, and as cool as it looked, the aluminum one works a little better. I will eventually get around to making another case head release, but I think I'm going to go with a nickle case and brass flat-head screw this time!
Tomcat47
Member
RevolvingGarbage...I like those poor man pachmyers! I got a shotgun with that on it!
Pachmyers on a handy roll....cant be beat!
Pachmyers on a handy roll....cant be beat!
"I also believe that a 5.5" "POCKET REVOLVER" like that would sell ."
So do I, and I know who would be first in line at the LGS,.....ME.
If I could lay hands on a concealed hammer DA pocket revolver the size and weight (10.5 oz) you specified chambered for a cartridge at least as powerful as .32 H&R mag or preferably .38 +P, I would trade any semiauto pistol in my cabinet (except the VG+ Argentine Sistema .45acp) for it and throw in a circa 1950's Italian .22 O/U deringer to boot.
Don't laugh at my little belly gun, it's my hero. In August 1962 that $24.95 pot metal deringer saved my bacon by foiling a late at night truck-jacking attempt on a desert road in southeastern AZ. I have little doubt that the incident which involved at least 3 teenage delinquents, or probably 4, would have gotten really ugly really fast if not for that dinky little .22. After that long ago night I can truthfully say that when the fecal matter hits the rotating wind maker any gun is way better than no gun.
So do I, and I know who would be first in line at the LGS,.....ME.
If I could lay hands on a concealed hammer DA pocket revolver the size and weight (10.5 oz) you specified chambered for a cartridge at least as powerful as .32 H&R mag or preferably .38 +P, I would trade any semiauto pistol in my cabinet (except the VG+ Argentine Sistema .45acp) for it and throw in a circa 1950's Italian .22 O/U deringer to boot.
Don't laugh at my little belly gun, it's my hero. In August 1962 that $24.95 pot metal deringer saved my bacon by foiling a late at night truck-jacking attempt on a desert road in southeastern AZ. I have little doubt that the incident which involved at least 3 teenage delinquents, or probably 4, would have gotten really ugly really fast if not for that dinky little .22. After that long ago night I can truthfully say that when the fecal matter hits the rotating wind maker any gun is way better than no gun.
I'm3rd,
Thanks for sharing the story about your ordeal. Did you have to actually fire the derringer, or showing it to the delinquents was enough to stop them? Just curious. Of course having two shots and 4 targets makes it a bit difficult, but it obviously worked in your case.
If it were me, I wouldn't trade that little derringer for anything. It deserves an honorable place on your wall.
Thanks for sharing the story about your ordeal. Did you have to actually fire the derringer, or showing it to the delinquents was enough to stop them? Just curious. Of course having two shots and 4 targets makes it a bit difficult, but it obviously worked in your case.
If it were me, I wouldn't trade that little derringer for anything. It deserves an honorable place on your wall.
Lobo_79
Member
These (431PD) aren't that hard to find. It's a 6-round 32 H&R Magnum. It's easy to shoot with standard .32 S&W, and it's very easy to conceal.
I seen something like this. It was called "Terrier" and was made on something called I-frame. It was so tiny it was cute.
The Terriers are chambered in either .38 S&W or .32L. Never seen one in person. Is it really much smaller than a j-frame? What's the OAL?
I think that if Smith and Wesson brings back the i-frame and chambers it in 9mm, they will have instant success on their hands. I would also love to see a small single action, similar to a Colt New Line, chambered in 9mm. The single action would make it more compact and pocketable. Something like an NAA mini on steroids.
Another thread here mentioned Taurus 905IB revolvers in 9mm. They were made specifically to accommodate a 9mm cartridge, so they had a short cylinder and frame. I believe these revolvers are 3/8" shorter than a j-frame. They are as rare as hen's teeth though, as the run was limited. Don't know the weight of them. I think they had all steel as well as titanium models.
I think that if Smith and Wesson brings back the i-frame and chambers it in 9mm, they will have instant success on their hands. I would also love to see a small single action, similar to a Colt New Line, chambered in 9mm. The single action would make it more compact and pocketable. Something like an NAA mini on steroids.
Another thread here mentioned Taurus 905IB revolvers in 9mm. They were made specifically to accommodate a 9mm cartridge, so they had a short cylinder and frame. I believe these revolvers are 3/8" shorter than a j-frame. They are as rare as hen's teeth though, as the run was limited. Don't know the weight of them. I think they had all steel as well as titanium models.
Lobo_79
Member
Good of you to point that out but my quote was not referring to the OP. But if it was:
"I am looking for revolvers that are bigger than the NAA Minis but smaller than the S&W Model 36 and it seems impossible to find any. So i thought that the tremendous knowledge that exists here on THR could help me find some interesting revolvers."
The Model 431 is slightly smaller than the Model 36 which is 6.94" long.
Fortunately I didn't have to fire my little bellygun to end that encounter. And if I had fired, it was so inaccurate that I would probably have missed whatever I fired at by yards not feet. Anybody over 10-5 feet away was safer than the shooter. By the way, my mention of the gun was not meant to be taken seriously since I no longer have it. The top hinge cracked on one side and I deactivated it by breaking off the firing pin so it couldn't be fired. Later on I got $50 for it and a junky .22 semiauto with no firing pin or striker at a gun buy-back conducted by some local churches in an area of town that you didn't want to enter after dark without having a squad of Marines go with you.
Who says gun buy-backs don't do any good? That one was very good for me, way back then $50 was like $300 in today's money, maybe more.
Who says gun buy-backs don't do any good? That one was very good for me, way back then $50 was like $300 in today's money, maybe more.
MCgunner
Member
I did have an RG26, a .25 auto, that worked. I mean, it always went bang, no jams, no misfires. I got more of both with the RG10. I couldn't hit crap with that .25 past contact range, but it functioned. It is the only firearm I've ever had to pull in self defense and the mere sight of it scared off the attacker who had a knife. Fortunately, I didn't have to test the stopping power of the .25. I'd probably have been stabbed more than he'd been shot. But, hey, a 25 caliber RG saved my butt.
I couldn't hit crap with that .25 past contact range, but it functioned. It is the only firearm I've ever had to pull in self defense and the mere sight of it scared off the attacker who had a knife. Fortunately, I didn't have to test the stopping power of the .25. I'd probably have been stabbed more than he'd been shot. But, hey, a 25 caliber RG saved my butt. Remo223
member
smaller than a J frame:
a charter arms undercover would qualify, barely.
a charter arms undercover would qualify, barely.
Remo223
member
The I frame is nothing more than a J frame but with a cylinder too short to accept a 357mag.
In other words, S&W created the J frame by taking an I frame and making it just long enough to hold a 357 length cylinder.
Remo223
member
Another gun just came to mind. I don't have any photos or any links and I don't even remember the model name. So I'll just hafta describe it to ya.
very old snubby revolver, single action only, load one at a time like a SAA/colt peacemaker. They didn't have a loading gate and they were chambered in 32 colt iirc. I think some of them were double action but still loaded one at a time(or maybe most of them were double action). there was no ejector rod. the shells didn't fall out the loading gate because the gate was in between cylinder stops, if ya know what I mean by that.
made by "american firearms company" or something like that...maybe "US firearms"...can't exactly remember.
they must've been 6shooters cuz i still have six rounds of 32 colt...and no more.
very old snubby revolver, single action only, load one at a time like a SAA/colt peacemaker. They didn't have a loading gate and they were chambered in 32 colt iirc. I think some of them were double action but still loaded one at a time(or maybe most of them were double action). there was no ejector rod. the shells didn't fall out the loading gate because the gate was in between cylinder stops, if ya know what I mean by that.
made by "american firearms company" or something like that...maybe "US firearms"...can't exactly remember.
they must've been 6shooters cuz i still have six rounds of 32 colt...and no more.
Mad Jack McMad
Member
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The Colt New Line series fits perfectly between the Mini and the J-frame. Though from a self defense view(not the actual point of this thread but still interesting) they have two problem. The first problem is that it is chambered in quite weak rimfire calibers and the second problem is that it cannot be reloaded fast.
From top to bottom:Colt New Line, Cal 38,32 and 30 Rimfire
From top to bottom:Colt New Line, Cal 38,32 and 30 Rimfire
Thank you for posting these. I believe some New Lines and copies thereof were also chambered in .38 center fire.
Like I've said above, with modern technology it would be possible to make a modern version of the Colt New Line in 9mm. Yes, it's slow to reload, but so are the NAA minis, and they are quite popular.
Hell, if I were independently wealthy I would have me one built by a gunsmith.
As far as the I-frames, they were chambered in .38 S&W, not .38 Special. Later S&W increased the size of the frame to accommodate .38 Special and then increased it more for .357 Mag. That's how j-frame came about. So yes, a Terrier is smaller than a j-frame.
Like I've said above, with modern technology it would be possible to make a modern version of the Colt New Line in 9mm. Yes, it's slow to reload, but so are the NAA minis, and they are quite popular.
Hell, if I were independently wealthy I would have me one built by a gunsmith.
As far as the I-frames, they were chambered in .38 S&W, not .38 Special. Later S&W increased the size of the frame to accommodate .38 Special and then increased it more for .357 Mag. That's how j-frame came about. So yes, a Terrier is smaller than a j-frame.
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Mad Jack,
What is the OAL of the .38 New Line?
From the information I got, it's 6-3/8" with a 2-1/4" barrel. So it's still a bit long, but could be shortened by using a smaller, 1-3/4" barrel. This would bring the length down to 5-7/8". I'm sure if a modern version was to be produced, a way could be found to cut another 1/4 to 3/8 to get the desired 5-1/2" length.
Anyway, this is just a fantasy as no manufacturer will want to do this. They are too busy making j-frame size revolvers.
What is the OAL of the .38 New Line?
From the information I got, it's 6-3/8" with a 2-1/4" barrel. So it's still a bit long, but could be shortened by using a smaller, 1-3/4" barrel. This would bring the length down to 5-7/8". I'm sure if a modern version was to be produced, a way could be found to cut another 1/4 to 3/8 to get the desired 5-1/2" length.
Anyway, this is just a fantasy as no manufacturer will want to do this. They are too busy making j-frame size revolvers.
Kendal Black
Member
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- Mar 18, 2011
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- 1,647
I would think what the manufacturers are looking at is whether they can get their money back out of the deal and make a profit, after the effort and expense of designing miniaturized revolvers. I would like a smaller edition pocket revolver, double action, swing out, hand ejector, one that works just like my bigger guns, so I don't have to remember anything different under pressure.
But the way the market seems to be heading is semi-autos. You see lots of new designs for pocket sized models of those. Here the manufacturers are willing to take risks on new designs. Not so with revolvers. Ruger has a new small revolver, but it is approximately J-sized. It's hard to miss the market by making a .38 snub, of course.
But the way the market seems to be heading is semi-autos. You see lots of new designs for pocket sized models of those. Here the manufacturers are willing to take risks on new designs. Not so with revolvers. Ruger has a new small revolver, but it is approximately J-sized. It's hard to miss the market by making a .38 snub, of course.
woad_yurt
Member
You want tiny? Try those old double-acrion H&Rs and Iver Johnsons in .22 LR or .32 S&W. Below is an Iver Johnson .32 and a US Revolver Co .22 next to my Kel-tec P3AT and my ex-girlfriend's .32 H&R, which she carries 24/7.* Hers cost $125, the other two were $89 each and they all work perfectly. The little 7 round .22 will shoot Aguila Supermaximums all day. I've since bobbed the hammer on the top one on the group photo because I pocket-carry it sometimes when when it's boiling-summer-time-in-shorts-and-tee-shirt weather.
* Yeah, I know it's no cannon but it's a better "get off me" than mere words.
* Yeah, I know it's no cannon but it's a better "get off me" than mere words.
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RevolvingGarbage
Member
So MachIVShooter's pic on the first page sent me over the edge, and I decided to chop my Iver Johnson down. It only took about an hour using a cutoff disc on the dremel, plus some sanding and filing and recrowning the muzzle.
Before:
And after:
Barrel is about 1 & 13/16"
I feel like this is an almost ideal pocket carry revolver. Smaller than a J-Frame in every way (won't peek out of a normal pocket), but shooting blackpowder .38S&W loads it still has about as punch as a tiny .380 auto.
Before:
And after:
Barrel is about 1 & 13/16"
I feel like this is an almost ideal pocket carry revolver. Smaller than a J-Frame in every way (won't peek out of a normal pocket), but shooting blackpowder .38S&W loads it still has about as punch as a tiny .380 auto.
That Iver Johnson looks good for the purpose under discussion, but where do you get .38 S&W black powder ammunition? I know you can handload it, but almost every so-called "expert" I read on the subject advises against using handloads for defense purposes. They claim that lawyers will try to convince a jury that you loaded your own ammo to make it more deadly and destructive to the human body, and that most people on a jury nowdays are ignorant enough about guns and ammo to buy that nonsense.
RevolvingGarbage
Member
The fear with hand loaded ammunition is that its ballistic properties can not be confirmed, and this may hurt your defense if you are relying on GSR or terminal effect evidence to keep you out of jail.
I personally don't see this ever happening when it comes to a legitimate use of self defense, so I have no problem with relying on hand-loaded ammo for self defense, and in fact, generally prefer it. Others see it differently and will only use factory.
Its simply a personal choice.
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