Minuteman Project Volunteers Face Probe

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Desertdog

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An Internet Publication for Real Americans
From The News Wire

http://sierratimes.com/ [Link is top story on right hand side]
Also at - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152721,00.html

Minuteman Project Volunteers Face Probe
Posted: Thursday April 7,2005 - 08:54:02 am

By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN, Associated Press Writer
TUCSON, Ariz. - Three volunteers patrolling the border for illegal immigrants were being investigated after a man told authorities he was held against his will and forced to pose for a picture holding a T-shirt with a mocking slogan.

AFP Slideshow: U.S. Border Patrolled for Illegal Immigrants

The volunteers said they were members of the Minuteman Project — a monthlong effort that has people from around the country fanned out along the border to report undocumented migrants and smugglers. Law enforcement officials have said they fear the project will lead to vigilante violence.


Border Patrol agents called in deputies from the Cochise County Sheriff's Office on Wednesday afternoon to report that an immigrant was detained by three men who identified themselves as project volunteers.


Carol Capas, a sheriff's office spokeswoman, said the 26-year-old Mexican man told agents he was physically restrained and forced to hold a shirt while his picture was taken and he was videotaped.


The shirt read: "Bryan Barton caught an illegal alien and all I got was this T-shirt."


Barton is one of the three volunteers. He told agents that they waved the man over to them, offered him food and water, and gave him the T-shirt and money before the Border Patrol arrived.


"All they did was provide water and wait for the Border Patrol," Minuteman spokesman Grey Deacon said. "What's the big deal?"


The Mexican man remained in custody Thursday and will be going through formal proceedings to send him back to his country, Border Patrol spokeswoman Andrea Zortman said.


It wasn't clear how long the man had been with the Minuteman volunteers before the patrol picked him up, she said. The Border Patrol has said repeatedly that it doesn't want civilians like the Minuteman group taking law enforcement action.

Deacon said project organizers were told by sheriff's officials that the incident wasn't a problem. But Capas said the investigation was continuing and authorities were reviewing a videotape that Barton provided to deputies.


"We do not have the time nor the patience for anyone attempting to turn this situation into a three ring circus," Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever said in a statement.


Meanwhile, Border Patrol apprehensions of illegal immigrants have dropped notably in the Naco area since civilian volunteers began gathering there. Agency spokesmen credit an increased presence by Mexican authorities south of the border and say it's too soon to tell whether the volunteers are having an impact.


The volunteers, many of whom were recruited over the Internet, plan to watch the border throughout April and report any illegal activity to federal agents.


Except for Wednesday's incident, Border Patrol officials said the volunteers have remained peaceful. However, they have continued to unwittingly trip sensors that alert the agency to possible intruders, forcing agents to respond to false alarms. Authorities said volunteers' footprints have also made if difficult for agents to track illegal immigrants.


Francisco Garcia, a volunteer for a shelter in Altar, Mexico, some 60 miles south of the Mexico-Arizona border, has said the migrants he has encountered have dismissed the Minutemen simply as "crazy people" — but for migrants' rights activists the situation is worrisome.


"For us, it's clear to see things could get out of control because those in the migration business are not easily intimidated," Garcia said. "We're afraid an aggression could escalate into an international incident."
 
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Immigrant? All I see here is an illegal alien whining after the fact of getting caught. And nobody expected this...right?
 
quote:

"Carol Capas, a sheriff's office spokeswoman, said the 26-year-old Mexican man told agents he was physically restrained and forced to hold a shirt while his picture was taken and he was videotaped.


The shirt read: "Bryan Barton caught an illegal alien and all I got was this T-shirt."


Barton is one of the three volunteers. He told agents that they waved the man over to them, offered him food and water, and gave him the T-shirt and money before the Border Patrol arrived.


"All they did was provide water and wait for the Border Patrol," Minuteman spokesman Grey Deacon said. "What's the big deal?"


the big deal is this clearly goes against what the MMP was all about. observe and report to authorities the presence of illegal aliens crossing the border. not give them t-shirts, water, take a photo or video, belittle them for self-gratification, and detain them. MMP volunteers have no legal right to detain them. however if the guy stayed there willingly that's a different question. otherwise there is a legal issue of false imprisonment, even if he is an illegal alien.

very bad P.R. for MMP.
 
This is unfortunate.

Before this, the MMP was proving very succesful, despite attempts by the media, the border patrol and the Bush administration to paint them as vigilantes.

Unfortunatly, this one event will be the one that is remembered, and threatens damage the reputation of this group.

:banghead:

I.G.B.
 
otherwise there is a legal issue of false imprisonment, even if he is an illegal alien.
Actually, I thought the term was "citizens arrest" ... :rolleyes:


But somebody is lying here ... of course it couldn't possibly be the Mexican felon. The video tape will tell the story, and either exonerate or inciriminate the MMP members.

At least they didn't have him stripped naked and on a leash :D
 
very bad P.R. for MMP.

How so? Seriously, it's not an opinion altering event. Especially not the kind of entrenched views that surround this issue. Those who support MMP and oppose unrestrained invasion aren't going to be bothered by this at all. Frankly I find it humorous. Likewise those who oppose MMP and support open invasion aren't getting anything near what they had hoped for.

Fence-sitters? Are there any fence-sitters any more? If so I don't think this is going to be a make-or-break event there either. What it does appear to be is the media grasping for anything they can find. It shows desperation more than anything else, and not on the part of MMP.
 
Meanwhile, Border Patrol apprehensions of illegal immigrants have dropped notably in the Naco area since civilian volunteers began gathering there. Agency spokesmen credit an increased presence by Mexican authorities south of the border and say it's too soon to tell whether the volunteers are having an impact.
Sigh ...

Any excuse to avoid facing the reality of the situation. I guess it's just coincidence that the "increased presence by Mexican authorities south of the border" just happens to coincide with the presence of the MMP north of the border.

Say! You don't suppose those Mexican authorities are trying to prevent people from being seen by the MMP volunteers, do you?
 
"The Border Patrol has said repeatedly that it doesn't want civilians like the Minuteman group taking law enforcement action."

How ironic, because...Civilians have said repeatedly that they do want law enforcement groups like the Border Patrol taking law enforcement action. :fire:

If they would serve their purpose citizens wouldn't feel compelled to take matters into their own hands. I know it isn't the agents in the field that need most of the blame. It is their commanders/politicians.

Gee they didn't manage to use my favorite term "undocumented imigrant" in this article. How dissapointing. Question, if "undocumented imigrant" is a valid term, then is a rapist an "undocumented husband"???? :uhoh:
 
2nd Amendment wrote:

"Quote:
very bad P.R. for MMP. "

"How so? Seriously, it's not an opinion altering event. Especially not the kind of entrenched views that surround this issue. Those who support MMP and oppose unrestrained invasion aren't going to be bothered by this at all. Frankly I find it humorous. Likewise those who oppose MMP and support open invasion aren't getting anything near what they had hoped for."


It is bad P.R. because it shows that the people volunteering for MMP are dehumanizing the immigrants. Call them illegal, call them aliens, but they're still human beings. Obviously what they did was not professional by any stretch of the imagination. If a bunch of cops did this, THR board members would be screaming bloody murder. But because it happens to an illegal alien by a private (possibly armed) citizen it's quite okay because it's funny?

Funny can also be interpreted as pointing a gun at someone and watching them piss themselves. That's not exactly humorous to me but it may be to you. Besides, gun owners and THR members are supposed to be above belittling others. This MMP volunteer clearly failed.
 
Nothing has been proven yet, so everyone is just jumping to conclusions. Better to wait and see what comes of this then start a yelling match over it. ;)
 
<tin foil>

How many folks out there (foreign and domestic) would love to see the Minutemen shown in a bad light? The MM are all volunteers, from everywhere. The situation makes me think they might have been infiltrated. Someone to grab the media attention away from the regular members. It's been done before.

</tin foil>
 
Well, that would be your interpretation of events, Spreadfire. Since we don't actually know yet who is telling the truth your observation literally carries no weight at this time. If in fact things went as the MMP says then it is, literally, a non-issue. If it went as the illegal alien invader says, then what? Making a criminal pose with a t-shirt is "dehumanizing"?

Ok. Works for me. Thing is I'd wager money even the media will have a hard time making such Spin stick. No, you want dehumanization you'll have to wait till someone gets beat with a sap. And, as we all pretty much know, that's scheduled soon enough.
 
TallPine wrote:
"Actually, I thought the term was "citizens arrest" ..."

Citizens cannot arrest for immigration violations. Nor can local law enforcement. If they could I suppose you could go around to every place you suspected of having illegal immigrants and go around "citizen arresting" them. Why don't you go try that and see how many people jump on you for making false arrests? I suggest you go read up on the law before you post something like this.

2nd Amendment wrote:
"Well, that would be your interpretation of events, Spreadfire. Since we don't actually know yet who is telling the truth your observation literally carries no weight at this time. If in fact things went as the MMP says then it is, literally, a non-issue. If it went as the illegal alien invader says, then what? Making a criminal pose with a t-shirt is "dehumanizing"?

Ok. Works for me. Thing is I'd wager money even the media will have a hard time making such Spin stick. No, you want dehumanization you'll have to wait till someone gets beat with a sap. And, as we all pretty much know, that's scheduled soon enough."


It's not my interpretation of events. It is what is being reported on Fox News. You're right, we don't know who's telling the truth. I'm sure that illegal immigrant went and found the name of a MMP volunteer, had a shirt printed up with his name, and then wandered across into the U.S. and just happened to run into that guy. :rolleyes: geez louise. The mere fact that some moron went to the extent to have these shirts made up, bringing a video camera to have it documented, and then making illegals wear them, is dehumanizing. Call it what you want, but evidently, this clown, had this all planned out in advance. He's not a patriot. He's a jerk. And yes, when law enforcement and military personnel take people into custody there is an expectation that they don't go on doing this. the guys on THR would be screaming bloody murder if the cops made a U.S. citizen wear a shirt and pose with them. so because they're a Mexican illegal immmigrant they're sub-human? not according to the laws of the United States.
 
Can anyone say:

CITIZEN'S ARREST!

Everyone (except one other poster) including it seems the Border Patrol and the Cochise County Sheriff's department seems to be ignoring this time honored and very legal concept.

The fact is that citizens have the right to apprehend felons. It's that simple.

If someone crosses the US border illegally then are they not a felon? Can they not be apprehended by a citizen by authority of the citizen's arrest statutes of AZ?

If it's not a state crime to cross from Mexico into AZ I know it is a Federal crime. Do citizens not have citizen's arrest rights when it comes to Federal law?
 
foxnews just reported

"The county attorney's office reviewed all available evidence, that indicates that there was no forcible detention, therefore the case is not substantiated, and no charges are pending," said Carol Capas, a spokeswoman for the Cochise County Sheriff's Department."

Great! no detention, but that guy needs to have a serious talking-to before he gets to participate in MMP. my opinion.
 
Well, the update is that they have determined that the evidence shows the illegal wasn't detained, so this really is a non-issue at this point.

To some it will look crass and cruel, to others it pretty darn funny. :D

I count myself in that latter group, since they didn't deviate from the MMP rules and guidelines.

I.G.B.
 
Remember

The Mexican Govt and others are encouraging illegals to tell stories. There will be torture, abuse and rape stories and maybe charges against these patriots before it's over....
CT
 
werewolf wrote:

"If it's not a state crime to cross from Mexico into AZ I know it is a Federal crime. Do citizens not have citizen's arrest rights when it comes to Federal law?"

I don't see how the STATE law can allow a citizen to arrest on a FEDERAL law.
 
I bet the emigrate didn't mind too much.

Umm, might one point out that this treatment is warm and fuzzy compared to that advocated by the current government? Just tell the Sheriffs Office that their antiquated policies are 'quaint'.
 
The mere fact that some moron went to the extent to have these shirts made up, bringing a video camera to have it documented, and then making illegals wear them, is dehumanizing.
oookkkaaayyy....
You have a seriously warped view of what constitutes dehumanizing, Spreadfire Arms.
They are mocking criminals-illegal invaders of the US. I have no problem with that. Put them in the stocks while we're at it.

The MM already have a PR problem, namely that the US government doesn't approve of them, nor do most larger media groups,and a fair share of their fellow American citizens.
 
okay poodleshooter,

tell you what. go get yourself arrested and have the cops do the same to you and see if you don't go crying to an attorney or at least bashing the cops about how they mistreated you. you act like the man committed murder. an illegal immigrant is just that. don't blow it out of proportion.

so i guess you're saying an illegal immigrant is a crook in the same boat as any other felon so it's okay what this guy did.

you agree with him. i disagree with him. i disagree because if i was treated like this i'd be pissed. you think it's okay because you're looking at it from the viewpoint of a MMP volunteer. i'm looking at it from an objective view where all of the people involved are human beings.

if for some reason, an unarmed illegal immigrant not being a human being escapes you, then i don't know what to say. :confused:

MMP's mission was not to mock illegal immigrants, was it? it makes the entire project look bad to the eyes of the public. remember, a good portion of the U.S. population does not support MMP. Neither does the U.S. Government for that matter, because of idiots like this guy.
 
so i guess you're saying an illegal immigrant is a crook in the same boat as any other felon so it's okay what this guy did.
Well the original poster may not be saying it but I will.

Illegal immigrants, invaders, undocumented workers - whatever one chooses to call them are CROOKS! They are criminals. They have violated the laws of the United States of America by crossing over our border at any place other than one defined as a legal crossing place.

The reasons they cross over are entirely irrelevant to the law (with some few exceptions like political asylum).

The suckers are criminals. Why is that so hard for some people to understand.
 
I find it very curious that some will instantly jump to conclusions about an incident which may or may not have happened, before the facts are out.

Then, when no crime is discovered and no bad treatment is present, they want said person to take a brow beating for something he did not do.

Bottom line-if the ILLEGAL aliens were not crossing the border, especially in the numbers in which they have, this situation would not have been possible.

To those few-mind if I tresspass through your house whenever I feel like it? Understand there are those AMERICANS who live, work and raise families on the border too, and are entitled to what the rest of the country enjoys.

So, Mr Illegal alien got a nice clean t-shirt for his trouble, plus some fresh water. Gee, that sounds more like a humanitarian than someone with evil in his heart.

You wanna come into my home-fine. Knock on the front door and I will check you over and make a decision. Try sneaking thru the cellar, and you will be dealt with like the criminal you truly are.
 
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