Quiet
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H&k p-7m8
Most expensive CCW
- Thread starter monotonous_iterancy
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But somehow my basic question doesn’t get answered.
In terms of surviving a shooting confrontation, exactly what do $1,000 + custom handguns offer that isn’t found in ordinary handguns sold by makers such as Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Colt, Glock, H&K, Beretta, FN, Springfield Arsenal, and many others. I would certainly agree that if you have the bucks you have a right to spend them anyway you want, but for the supposedly intended purpose are they really all that advantageous?
In terms of surviving a shooting confrontation, exactly what do $1,000 + custom handguns offer that isn’t found in ordinary handguns sold by makers such as Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Colt, Glock, H&K, Beretta, FN, Springfield Arsenal, and many others. I would certainly agree that if you have the bucks you have a right to spend them anyway you want, but for the supposedly intended purpose are they really all that advantageous?
SharpsDressedMan
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The answer should be obvious. If you have the money, and like a higher end gun, and only live once, why NOT carry a beautiful or valuable gun? Many well known gun toters of yesterday AND today have carried ornate, highly customized, or high dollar guns. Even Jeff Cooper had a 1911 Colt with a gold plated frame that he carried on the job around Gunsite. Clint Smith has a beautiful engraved .44 Mag that he carried around his Thunder Ranch training center. Many Texas Rangers made it a point to carry a fancy gun, and some still do. I have several guns that are worth over one or two thousand dollars, and if I feel like packing them CCW, I do. I have an engraved 1911, a few tricked out Browning Hi Powers, and a SIG P210 that I have proper holsters for carrying concealed. Even my little German Walther PPK may be worth over a grand, but it begs to be carried concealed. Do they give me any advantage over less expensive guns? Hell yes! They make me feel like I want to feel when I pack them. PS: They all work, they are all accurate, and I can shoot them all well. No reason NOT to carry them. If they create a positive feeling when being carried and used, they may add to the owner's confidence when they are used in a BIG way.
Well sure, there is something to the "it makes me feel good" point. But that isn't what will likely put you in the winner's circle. What’s far more important is (yet again) mine set, training, and skill.
I mentioned Jeff Cooper's GSP (by the way the gold plated 1911A1 wasn't something he carried if going into harm's way). Now consider Bill Jordan, who's fast draw could stop a fight well before it got started. His most-often-carried sidearm was an ordinary S&W model 19, that had the following inexpensive modifications.
1. Sharp corners on the rear sight rounded.
2. Right/front of the trigger guard slimmed.
3. Custom stocks made to fit his very large hand.
4. Slight slicking up the action.
Never, ever did he buy a Super Tactical Mark IV Terminator Special to increase his confidence...
'Cuz he didn't need to.
I mentioned Jeff Cooper's GSP (by the way the gold plated 1911A1 wasn't something he carried if going into harm's way). Now consider Bill Jordan, who's fast draw could stop a fight well before it got started. His most-often-carried sidearm was an ordinary S&W model 19, that had the following inexpensive modifications.
1. Sharp corners on the rear sight rounded.
2. Right/front of the trigger guard slimmed.
3. Custom stocks made to fit his very large hand.
4. Slight slicking up the action.
Never, ever did he buy a Super Tactical Mark IV Terminator Special to increase his confidence...
'Cuz he didn't need to.
marv
Member
I pocket carry exclusively. I choose my guns for caliber, accuracy, dependability, how they fit my hand, and how they fit my pocket. Fortunately, I haven't found any guns that fit my needs/desires in the four figure price range.
Old Fuff, my Kimber is superior to an ordinary Glock because I shoot it better than a Glock. Glocks just don't fit me.I had the work done on my Kimber because I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law and Murphy's Principle.
1. Anything that can go wrong will.
2. It will go wrong at the worst possible time.
I don't understand why you are bothered by me having work done on my pistol. If I can give myself a little edge, so what?
In the 2 times I've had to pull my pistol to defend myself, I never saw Col. Cooper come running to give me backup.
If I happen to be carrying my CZ PCR, S&W Model-19,Model-686, Model-29, or any of my other guns, I don't feel under gunned. They are all reliable.
I don't feel a high dollar gun is better in a gunfight than say a bone stock Glock. The point I was trying to make was you, as an individual, have to decide what to carry.I carry my Kimber. You can carry whatever you like.
1. Anything that can go wrong will.
2. It will go wrong at the worst possible time.
I don't understand why you are bothered by me having work done on my pistol. If I can give myself a little edge, so what?
In the 2 times I've had to pull my pistol to defend myself, I never saw Col. Cooper come running to give me backup.
If I happen to be carrying my CZ PCR, S&W Model-19,Model-686, Model-29, or any of my other guns, I don't feel under gunned. They are all reliable.
I don't feel a high dollar gun is better in a gunfight than say a bone stock Glock. The point I was trying to make was you, as an individual, have to decide what to carry.I carry my Kimber. You can carry whatever you like.
SharpsDressedMan
member
This probably doesn't apply to the average person carrying a concealed weapon, but there is a stigma on the street associated with a custom gun, or maybe even just custom grips. Or a custom holster that might enhance performance. I have witnessed criminal "punks" take notice of a cop with a custom grips on a gun, or an obviously upgraded holster or sidearm. The street consensus is that that particular officer knows guns, and might not be the one to mess with. I even noticed an Oklahoma State Trooper many years ago, as I was passing through, with a speed rake holster; not the norm at that time. I think Texas Rangers often take advantage of that philosophy. Many of them ARE into guns, and make it a point to have the best, and maybe even the flashiest, and that does gain some standing on the street. If you ARE a shooter, and know your gun, and pack an impressive pistol, then you SHOULD enjoy that slight margin of confidence, and carry yourself confidently. It SHOULD all be as one complete thing; good gear, well practiced, and maybe a little style along with all the rest. What's wrong with being proud, or invested, in your image? Image and style are not substitutes for competence, though. You still have to be the real thing.
So you laud a person for carrying a customized gun.(regardless of what it cost 50yrs ago). Yet don't understand that others carry expensive customized guns?
Do you think a high cut trigger guard, 3.5# Trigger, Dehorned frame and slide, etc. offer an advantage or disadvantage?
hemiram
Member
Both of my most expensive guns were Colts, the Python was great (except for when the hand broke), and the Combat Commander was a total disaster, and pretty much turned me off to 1911s in general. My opinion of them hasn't changed much over the years. I let friends of mine buy them, and watch them struggle with "breaking in", "Limpwristing", and all the other nonsense that 1911 owners seem to enjoy paying a ton of extra money for, while my $400 Witness and $425 S&W 4506 just flat run along without drama and struggle. I really like that both of them cost less than most of my friends' 1911s.
Why buy new?
I'd start with a police department model 19 or 66 and almost cut your prospective price almost in half. For most folks, custom stocks may not be necessary, and given that the lockwork is burnished in an action job might not be required either. A through disassembly and cleaning/lubrication, yes.
I have no objection to folks spending big bucks on the custom gun of their dreams - provided of course that they have the income to support it. But those that think that a high priced tool, in and of itself will make them invulnerable in a shooting are focused on the wrong thing.
Throughout my long lifetime I have known a handful of gentlemen, some famous, some not, who were multi-shootout survivors, and without exception they didn’t use or carry expensive customized guns. The one exception I can think of was Charlie Askins, who at one time had a Colt New Service .38 Special that the old King Gunsights Co. had worked over, and he’d added ivory stocks at a time they weren’t priced out of sight.
I don't believe I posted any such thing.
What I did point out that his everyday carry revolver was mostly stock and had only a few, relatively inexpensive modifications.
What made him formidable was his almost unbelievable mindset and skill - both of which he taught to other law enforcement officers. He wasn't in any way dependent on a highly customized (and expensive) sidearm.
I believe I made it clear that I had no objection to anyone buying anything that they could afford. However I don't believe that in itself, buying something unusually expensive necessarily give them an edge.
Personally, I often pick a used platform as the basis for something I want to modify into something else. Others of course can do differently.
Which at that point in time was state of the art.
Given the option you don't think Bill would have opted for a scandium framed 8 shot revolver?
I think Jeff Cooper would have found my STI VIP to be an exellent defensive pistol well worth it's price tag over that of other Commander sized guns.
I don’t give a hoot about what anyone buys and carries. That is an entirely personal choice, and if they think it give them an edge it just might. But it also might be that someone is overemphasizing the “edge” to the point of neglecting what is really important – mindset, training, and practice.
What I’ve tried to point out is that individuals that are truly skilled and have survived shooting (sometimes several) were not dependent on a custom sidearm. Their confidence in themselves was based on what really mattered.
The OP asked what is the most expensive you have carried - nothing more. I have carried my Baer, but not often. I rarely carry any all-steel pistols anymore. I like the weight savings of a poly frame, and usually carry a G26, 36, or 30. Cost has nothing to do with my decision.
Actually your examples show quite the opposite, It seams all your hero's had custom sidearms.
Modified triggers/guards, sights sharp corners removed.
I do too but it would be dishonest to not put value on my own workmanship. I've got a Colt Officers model that actual out of pocket has been cheap but even if I figure minimum wage my work on it would nearly double what I have in it.
Having been fortunate enough to have known both Col. Cooper and Bill Jordan I suspect you’d be wrong.
Jeff believed that in a gunfight what was most important in a 1911 platform pistol was:
Reliability – That during his time most out-of-the-box Colt’s offered.
Better sights – the stock ones were way to small to see for fast work.
A trigger pull – crisp and adjusted to 4 ½ to 5 pounds.
He wasn’t particularly impressed with custom pistols, but his views might have been shaped toward the negative caused by experience. He often told students and others with highly customized pistols that they’d be better off if they’d spent the money on ammunition to practice with.
Bill Jordan was all for lightweight snubbies but not otherwise. His favorite platform was Smith & Wesson’s K-frame, in which 6, .357 Magnum cartridges was the limit. This I think, bothered him not at all, and if it did he would have more likely turned to a large-cap pistol. Never happened, and I don’t think it was ever considered.
Charles Askins on the other hand (who was left handed) turned to the Smith & Wesson model 59 in later years, but his favorite was bone stock, except he cut off the front of the trigger guard.
This^^^^^
Obviously, this discussion has gotten waaaaay off track. I don't understand why it can't just be accepted that some folks like to carry fancy or custom built guns and other folks don't. It doesn't mean that one thinks they're better than the others or that a custom piece is necessary to defend oneself and that a factory stock gun some how won't get the job done.
If you are skilled, or at least competent
, with a handgun then you will shoot well with anything - dull or shiny, plain or engraved, Rock Island or Wilson. I'd say that the only real difference being that a gun that has been accurized or customized for performance rather than just cosmetics, is going to shoot better in everyone's hands simply because the gun is inherently more accurate than the same model in stock form.This discussion is very much the same as talking about folks preference in automobiles. Certainly a base model Kia or Chevy or whatever car or truck will get you from point A to point B but a lot of us choose higher end vehicles or to customize vehicles to our own liking. Whether we do it for performance or just cosmetics is moot, because it's personal choice, we buy what we like. That being said, like a higher end performance handgun or one that has been built for accuracy, a higher end performance car or one that has been built for speed and handling will make a better driver of everyone simply because the car is an inherently better performing vehicle than a lower end model or stock version of the same car.
I own and carry custom guns because that is what I like. They are reliable and accurate and, yes, more expensive, but I'm willing to pay for what I prefer. My father has never owned a custom gun in his life and sees no reason to, he likes mine and can appreciate the work that has gone into them and their appearance, but he is perfectly content with what the factories have produced in their original form. By the same token, I have an Audi TT and a restored and modified '66 Thunderbird and he drives a '96 Pathfinder. He likes my cars but prefers his old Nissan because it suits him just fine and does what he needs it to, and that is just fine. To each his own.
Again a Colt base model 1911 with sights and a trigger job is $1000
or you could just go with an XSE model but they're still real close to 1k.
Sorry got busy arguing and forgot to answer the question
I think this is the most expensive one I actually carry on a regular basis it's a STI VIP
26oz 10+1 45 ACP incredably accurate and dead solid reliable
Bought it used for $1100 and added night sights.
I have a Les Baer that I carried once but I don't concider it a carry gun.
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Colt's are costly, but many of the clones aren't, and fortunately both the "Pony" and copies come with much better sights as stock. A basic trigger tune (as opposed to a match grade job) shouldn't break the bank.
Looking at your target, that's an outstanding group. Did you put all 10 or 11 shots in there?
Actually that's 2 magazines full at 700 yards in a hail storm. I was having an off day though.
Actually I had just installed the sights and was checking to see if I had centered them OK. My machinist eye is pretty good, just for the record I did run the targer back out to 25 yards and put 4 more in the 10 ring.
Actually I had just installed the sights and was checking to see if I had centered them OK. My machinist eye is pretty good, just for the record I did run the targer back out to 25 yards and put 4 more in the 10 ring.
JohnBT
Member
" But those that think that a high priced tool, in and of itself will make them invulnerable in a shooting are focused on the wrong thing."
What about those that think a low priced tool, in and of itself will make them invulnerable? And smarter, because they didn't waste their money on a better weapon. If they won't practice, a cheap gun won't make them a better shot no matter how smart they feel.
John
What about those that think a low priced tool, in and of itself will make them invulnerable? And smarter, because they didn't waste their money on a better weapon. If they won't practice, a cheap gun won't make them a better shot no matter how smart they feel.
John
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