Mountain Lion "to be destroyed"

Status
Not open for further replies.
All these posts and not one person has alluded to the fact that we cannot have any wilderness areas that are restored to their natural state without restoring the apex predators that were indigenous. Google "trophic cascade" if you want to learn something.
Click to expand...

I dont really think that this answer is the answer to the OPs question.
 
All these posts and not one person has alluded to the fact that we cannot have any wilderness areas that are restored to their natural state without restoring the apex predators that were indigenous. Google "trophic cascade" if you want to learn something.
Click to expand...

woof-

Here's the problem. The PREY hasn't been restored.

Fill the prairies with all the ungulates they can hold, including millions of North American Bison, and you can go ahead and dump wolves wherever you want, protect cougars, whatever you want.

However, apex predators need prey. There's no such thing as a healthy, "restored wilderness" that contains all the predators, but only a subset of the prey that it once did.
 
Did you read my post? I said "if I see one in my yard or ANYWHERE near my grand children". If ANY wild animal is in a position to do harm to my little ones it WILL be S,S & Su.no question. This is a FACT! No it is not hippocritical.
 
I read your post several times. It made me angry each time. Yes, the fact is that you will be breaking the law, if you have to S, S & SU. Absolute fact. You will be a criminal, and you will be covering up your crime. If you shoot the animal and then call the authorities, they may agree that you were defending your family and let it go at that. They may not, in which case you take your lumps. But S, S & SU is criminal behavior and utterly hypocritical of anyone claiming to be a law abiding American firearm owner.
 
Its actually called the 3 S's...SSS. I didn't read that much into it myself, just that if he or his family was threatened by a cougar he would shoot to kill.....this would not be illegal to do. Perhaps he wouldn't want to report it because he doesn't want the media attention an be called a hero, or the anti's calling him a murderer of kitty kats....just a nice little burial back to nature from which it had come. Hypocritical would be putting Meow Mix out in the backyard to lure the little burger in....."meow".
 
Last edited:
Sheesh! Getting all emotional, aren't we?

I hate to see critters like this shot as the result of an unfavorable interaction with humans, but as ArmedBear pointed out, the ecosystems into which some species are expanding are far different than the primordial habitats that existed before humans' arrival. Sometimes, unfortunately, the presence of mountain lions is just too dangerous to tolerate (unbelievably, there have been two mountain lions killed in the Chicago area in the past year or so, animals who simply traveled outside their normal range).

I do get a little peeved when people do stupid things that provoke aggression, resulting in bears, mountain lions . . . whatever . . . being killed as a result. We're supposedly the most intelligent species. Sometimes you have to wonder . . .
 
Well golly gee, I am a starving,hungry,thirsty bear,couger,gopher,and someones dog or sweaty jogger comes by i'm gonna eat even if i die, if you just wanna kill something go hand to hand combat with them just like the movies, and if you can't without a rifle that shoots 2 moa at 300 yards then put on some claws that are bear or cougar lenght and kick there ass.:mad:
 
Understand, I am not LOOKING for a cougar to shoot. If I see one in the woods while I am hunting ( or otherwise while armed),it is safe from me as long as it doesn't act aggressively. It is only in peril if it is NEAR my little ones at which time it is done. I won't wait until it is dragging off one of my grandchilren to take action. No, I would not report it as the resulting hassle wouldn't be worth it.
 
I would personally like to know how they plan to track down the one.. seems like looking for the shark that bit your kid... I understand the idea but see nearly no possible way of success.. sure they can kill one and feel better, but what are the chances that they will kill the right one.. it is the big brown cat with a long tail.... dont suppose he had glasses, a limp, a crooked tail, a scare below his left eye, did he meow in a southern accent?
 
...makes me want to dig out the old VHS Movie...'Cat People', with Natasia Kinski, and I forget who else ( she being in the movie I mean, not on the Couch palm-tapping the where I'm to sit right next to her, darn it )...had good Soundtrack by David Bowie also, if memory serves...


By golly, I will go dig it out, make some Pop Corn, grabba a Dr. Pepper, sit back, relax, and watch it, too...
 
Well there are a lot of lions out there now but it’s not like the “wilderness” is just teaming with them. (There can only be so many apex predators in any environment.)
They have very large territories they roam in so most likely there is only one cat in the immediate area, it’s not a guarantee but the odds are good. They, which is Fish and Game here in CA, will probably use dogs to track it down from where the “problem occurred”.

And, B yond, they do have M 14s. I recently spent some time with a DFG warden and heard the story behind the department getting those rifles. Its a good tool to put down injured game that they can get close to. Or BG’s shooting at them with a deer rifle, if it comes to that.

Lions main food source is deer, that’s what they evolved to prey on. When they can’t get that they will hunt other animals. There are tons and tons of wild turkey here in CA now that these cats are probably enjoying on a regular basis along with the deer. They are opportunistic so they will eat a house cat or dog if they happen on one also.

By no means do I believe that these cats are hunting people because they have become unafraid of humans. I believe the very rare attack is just a random occurrences that probably has to do with the cats ill health or age and a whole lot of desperation on the cats part.

A while back I was able to find stats on animal attacks put out by CA DFG. I was not so surprised to read that bear attacks far out numbered cat attacks here in CA. Of those attacks, people being stupid encouraged many of those encounters to go bad. :rolleyes:

Mt. Lions are something to be aware of but nothing to worry about in my opinion. These animals are an essential part of our wild heritage that should be respected and understood for what they are.

If we feel the need to control the population numbers of a species, how about we start with our own. :uhoh:
 
how they plan to track down the one
Click to expand...

I've always wondered about this as well. These hunters - or animal control officers or whatever - go out the next day and kill an animal that's the same species as the offending predator. And I've even heard stories that upon post-mortem, officials found traces of the victim in the animal's digestive system.

I've always wondered how they are so sure that particular critter is the right critter before they pull the trigger.
 
Hmmm,

Never realized THR had so many young city folks on board.

Should have kniown from the nature of some of the gun related threads, my bad.

Guess no one raises their kids on farms anymore.

Too much PETA and Walt Disney on this thread.

I'm too old to argue about it with people that just don't get it!

And who don't want to understand why you simply do not tolerate dangerous animals in close proximity to humans.

I'm going to bed!

Regards,
:) ...
 
For the record, mountain lion attacks on humans are not that rare anymore. As mountain lion populations have increased across the West, so have attacks. The antis love to assert it's all because of humans encroaching upon cat habitat, which conveniently ignores the fact that homo sapiens requires habitat to survive, as well, and always has. The antis assume an attitude that man doesn't even belong on the planet. Just where exactly are we supposed to "encroach" in a politically correct fashion -- the moon? But I digress... Attacks by cats in California have indeed increased in frequency since Prop. 117 passed years ago, stupidly granting blanket protection to a non-endangered, non-threatened apex predator. (Cali-whacky then went on to extend the same blanket protection to great white sharks since we were obviously not content to grant total protection to just one apex predator). California does not yet lead in numbers of cat attacks on humans, but it's setting a pretty good pace. The leading geography for mountain lion attacks on humans remains Vancouver Island, BC. I've researched this issue and written about it for decades. The reality is simply this: Mountain lion attacks on humans have been happening for a very long time (documented) and are increasing in frequency as lion populations increase across the West following the demise of federal predator control programs. If you run across the wrong cat, and he's hungry enough and bold enough, he may decide to take a run at you. It really is just that simple. And by the way, don't buy into California DFG official numbers of mountain lion attacks on humans. By the DFG's criteria, you pretty much have to be chewed into the early stages of a chili recipe for any incident to be considered an attack -- and they do not count the number of missing children where evidence at the scene suggested an attack may have occurred, but no victim was ever found. That's hardly surprising, considering the nature of man-eating and the efficiency of nature at cleaning up the remnants -- and the requirement for DFG employees to remain politically correct at all times if they wish to remain employed. (posted by a long-time California-based outdoor writer). One last observation: antis are quick to assert that mountain lions kill only the weak and injured prey animals, and that no animal kills for fun. Baloney. Mountain lions have decimated many herds of deer and bighorn sheep in California, and I have photos in my files of an large, high-fenced field littered with dozens of dead sheep from just one night's work by one mountain lion. None of them were fed upon. If that wasn't killing for fun, I don't know what is.
 
I've done a lot of research about mountain lions the last couple of years. Our house backs directly up to 10k+ acres of wilderness. Our property is in the home range of at least one very large cat. Last Summer there were tracks in our yard almost weekly. I have seen the animal three times and my wife has seen it twice. Each time we saw it slink off silently into the woods when it became aware of our presence. This is why it's still alive. I've talked to the local game warden many times about it and he's offered to issue me a "nuisance cougar removal permit"; set a trap in the yard that (he says) won't work; or come out with a team and hunt it down. At this point, I can shoot it at will without a permit as we have a well documented history of a problem with this animal. Washington State considers any big cat that frequents someone's yard a problem. If they get too familiar with humans it's just a matter of time before they start stalking them.

Female cougars here have home ranges of about five square miles that do not overlap with other females. Male ranges are larger and often overlap several females' ranges but do not overlap other males' ranges. All cougars will fight to the death to protect their home range against others of their same sex, including their own offspring. If a female kit doesn't leave it's mother's range at the "right" age she will kill it. So, when there's a population explosion where there is already "normal" population density the cats run out of range and start encroaching on human settlements.

As others have said, the cougar population has exploded in recent years. It's especially a problem here as hound hunting was outlawed so literally nobody "hunts" cougar. The warden said that about the same number of cougars are killed now as before the hound hunting ban, and by the same people as before. The hunters kept their hounds. :) Now, instead of getting a cougar license they wait for a game warden to call them for removal of a nuisance animal. Then they get to go cougar hunting with their dogs. The cougar population here needs to be thinned, and thinning it at the edge of "civilization" probably makes more sense for us humans then guys hunting them way out in the wilderness.

If you support PETA don't read the following paragraph!

The basic way they remove problem cougars is: Three or four hunters/wardens with high powered rifles (plus side arms), and two or three teams of dogs track a cougar, tree it, and shoot it in the chest with a .22LR. They hope to hit it's lung(s) as this causes the animal to get very weak rapidly and not come down out of the tree after them. I know this sounds like a WAY cold way to kill an animal but you need to realize how dangerous a treed, wounded mountain lion really is. These cats will fight with everything they've got and they are brutal killers that live for the fight. Ever watched your house cat go after a mouse? Think about multiplying that by 50 or more and then wounding it! They don't just fight to their last breath, but until they lose consciousness. :what: Usually the cat falls out of the tree and as soon as it hits the ground they finish it with a hunting rifle. I'm sure if they were tracking one and saw it in open country they'd just drill it with a .308. Problem is there's not much open country here as the forests are choked with brush and this is very rugged terrain.

As far as handguns go, my local warden carries a .45 and has killed two charging cougars with it. He says they go down pretty hard with a hollow point to the chest but keep shooting until the gun is empty! Cougars are thin skinned and are similar in size and weight to humans so he says whatever works good on humans will work on cougars. I bought my .45 after my first conversation with him.... and my .308 after the second. :D

Another thing about mountain lions: If you are attacked fight back and don't ever give up! Protect your neck above all else as they have evolved with large canine teeth specifically for paralyzing their prey through spinal cord puncture. If it's got you down and you can get your hand in it's mouth do it. Grab it's tongue and pull or try to block it's airway. Then beat it to death with your other hand. This is assuming you can't put lead or steel into it of course.


I'm sorry if this post is incoherent. It's late but I wanted to relay what I've learned before the thread degenerated further and/or got locked.
 
We have even had mountain lion showing up here in South Alabama. Part of the problem is deer populations have exploded throughout the country and when prey increases the birth rate amoung predators increases also. (ie rabbits vs coyotes).
I was born and raised in the mountains of Idaho and have had several encounters with mountain lions in the wild. They can be quite timid or VERY cantankerous depending on the situation and their mood. I would NOT want to encounter one in an urban environment. I have some pictures taken this fall here in Alabama of 4 cougars feed on a deer in front of one of our game cameras...........scary.
 
Who's encroaching on who's land?

I'm all for hunting for sport, & if ever there's a "pest" animal... move it to another area... or... if it's an old cripple what's had a taste of human flesh, then by all means... PUT IT DOWN!

But to hear about an animal that is just "a nuisance", being put down because someone doesn't have the time (or resources) to re-locate said animal really bugs the poo.p out of me.
Click to expand...


Their encroaching on our land.

Once an animal like a bear, cougar, or wolf find out that their is an easier way to find a meal, it won't just return itself to chasing down deer when it can dig through our trash, kill our livestock, or break into our houses. You can take the animal out into the backcountry, but it remembers what it just learned about where to find ready to eat food.

Once a predator learns how easy it is to kill stupid cattle, or peruse through my neighborhood for trash, pets, etc. it is doomed by the knowledge it just acquired. Too bad. We can't just live with a neighborhood cougar like that, and since there are plenty of them from Alaska to Argentina, destroying another one doesn't ruin an ecosystem.

The only reason they've encroached on our land is because their numbers are healthy enough to push the outer animals into our territory. If you load the bear or cat up in a trailer and dump them into the wilderness area, you just dropped them into the war torn habitat of his fellow species. He'll likely get killed by them for being there if he's not run out of the area into another human populated spot. If you realize how animals die in the wild, you'd know that a bullet is a million times more humane than choking to death in the jaws of one of your opponents.
 
My house and property run along side a National Park and I have mt. lion that I have spotted several times over the last 8 yrs. since we moved. In my state the Park Service and Game Warden will tell you they don't exist, although the game warden can't say it and be taken serious, his face betrays him.

The cat in my particular neck of the woods appears to be a full grown cat and has been so brazen as to actually walk around my wrap around porch at night. It had snowed and we followed his tracks from the back deck to where he stepped off the front porch on to the sidewalk. I have not set out to shoot this cat and though I do have children about. We stay outside with them when they play or the two dogs are with them. When out and about the property I always carry a .357 with deerstopper rounds from Georgia Arms and one snake load.

This particular cat will go for months and years and not be seen and is very elusive. So far he has not given me cause to hunt and kill him and unless his pattern changes and he starts hanging out near my house all the time I will not shoot him.
 
No, I would not report it as the resulting hassle wouldn't be worth it.
Click to expand...

Look, shooting a predator that directly threatens you or another individual is fine with me (and the Endangered Species Act, as well), but not reporting the killing of a protected species (and the cougar is protected in Alabama) to the authorities is not only illegal, but really counter productive, as it makes it impossible to scientifically determine the population of that species and assess whether protection is merited.

And, likewise, I'm sure that complying with laws prohibiting theft, rape and murder, etc… are a hassle that is not worth it to some people. You are morally equivalent to those people in your intent to S, S & SU, which would, in this case, be a felony. Anyone here support the rights of felons to possess firearms?
 
I stand by what I said. I have no intentions of being put through the "ringer" for protecting my family. In this day and time when so many people put a higher value on the life of a potentially dangerous animal to that of people it would be very probable that charges would be filed even if it was a "good shoot". The local LE and DA may be sympathetic but once the P.E.T.A. types got wind of it.....NO THANKS! Like it or don't.
 
Hey...it's a jungle out there. Deal with it as you need to in order to be safe. I'll take the middle road on this one. You got a troublesome mountain lion, deal with it as you and/or the law sees fit. Otherwise, leave them alone. Same with coyotes or wolves. They serve a purpose in the ecosystem until they start killing your stock...then you gotta deal with it. As long as they are eating mice and other rodents, who cares right.

You don't have to be from the city to want to have wild animals in the woods or the mountains. And being fromt he country (which I am) doesn't mean you're going to want to exterminate every animal that may, at some point, due to its nature, become a problem.

I grew up dealing with wild animals on a case by case basis. In my youth it was foxes. One got real comforable with killing our chickens and we shot it. We saw one way out in the woods, we left it alone.

Feral dogs were pretty much a shoot on sight proposition as when I was a kid they were the biggest threat we had...and we shot them. All the while we had a puppy that we loved.

So, I too have rambled but I'd say do what you have to do and be done with it.
 
I'm sure that I'd behave just like sarge posted, if I were living with a local predator. I'd enjoy the scenery, but once the closeness wore out the comfort, I'd have no issues with downing the trespasser.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

G
  • Locked
Mt Lion in Oakland Ca,kills deer in zoo/gunfree utopia
Replies
2
Views
940
Standing Wolf
S
G
  • Locked
mountain lion 90210
2
Replies
32
Views
2K
Creeping Incrementalism
C
P
  • Locked
Protection from Mountain Lions? Don't Even Mention "Gun"
2 3 4 5
Replies
117
Views
12K
Erik
E
G
  • Locked
Mountain lion shot in Palo Alto,CA
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
Sven
S
D
  • Locked
(CO) Hunter says he killed cougar in self-defense
2
Replies
40
Views
2K
Azrael256
A
Back
Top