Protection from Mountain Lions? Don't Even Mention "Gun"

Status
Not open for further replies.
CajunBass wrote

I suspect you have pretty close to the same chance of being abducted by aliens as being attacked by a mountain lion.

See below for record of attacks. Search for alien abductions resulted in zero reports. :D

List of Mountain Lion Attacks On People in California


1890

19 June. (Attack #1, death #1). A 7-year-old boy was killed by two lions while playing among oak trees some distance from his home in Quartz Valley, Siskiyou County. (OC)

1891-1908
18 years with no known attacks.

1909

5 July. (Attack #2, deaths #2 and 3). A rabid lion injured a woman and child in Morgan Hill, Santa Clara County. Both died of rabies. (OC)

1910-1985
76 years with no known attacks.

1986

March. (Attack #3) A lion attacked a 5-year-old girl, Laura Small, in Caspers Regional Park, Orange County, resulting in a $2 million court judgment against Orange County. Laura remains blind in one eye and partially paralyzed. (OCR 9/29/98, OC)

October. (Attack #4) A 6-year-old boy, Justin Mellon, received minor injuries resulting from a lion attack. (OCR 9/29/98, OC)
1987-1991

5 years with no known attacks.
1992

12 March. (Attack #5) A 9-year-old boy, Darron Arroyo, was attacked by a cougar as he was hiking on a trail with his two brothers in Gaviota State Park, Santa Barbara County. His father, Steven Arroyo, about a hundred yards behind the boys, heard the screams and saw the lion dragging Darron. Steven rushed toward the cougar, picked up a rock, threw it and struck the lion between the eyes. The lion dropped the boy and retreated. Darron sustained bites to the face and head and scratches to the chest. His parents sued the State of California. (MLCSP; OC; SDUT 4/15/95, A3; Santa Barbara News Press, Gaviota State Park; California Department of Fish and Game; Abundant Wildlife Society Of North America; Mountain Lion Fact Sheet by T. R. Mader, Research Director)

1993

August. (Attack #6) A 6-year-old boy, Devin Foote, was attacked in the Manzano River area of the Los Padres National Forest, Santa Barbara County. This attack is not recognized by the California Department of Fish and Game because injuries were not verified by a physician, nor was the attack site investigated by an agency (MLCSP, SDUT 4/15/95, A3; LAT 4/3/95; United Conservation Alliance News 3(4):4-5, Oct. 1993; E. Lee Fitzhugh, personal communication 1/15/04)

September. (Attack #7) A young cougar bit a 10-year-old girl camping with her family at Paso Picacho Campground in Cuyamaca Rancho State Park. The girl was slightly injured. The mountain lion believed to have attacked the girl was tracked down and killed. (SDUT 12/11/94 A1; MLCSP)

1994

23 April. (Attack #8, death #4) Barbara Schoener, 40, a friend of my sister and a long-distance runner in excellent physical shape, was killed by an 80-pound female mountain lion in Northern California on the American River Canyon trail in the Auburn State Recreation Area. No one observed the attack, and hence there are conflicting hypotheses about what occurred.

(SDUT 5/8/94, A3; 5/13/94, A3; Pete Schoener, via an email from my sister Connie Vavricek)

16 August. (Attack #9) 50-year-old Troy Winslow and his wife Robin, along with 48-year-old Kathleen Strehl, were camping in the yard of a rustic cabin near the isolated hamlet of Dos Rios in Mendocino County, when a fight broke out between their dog and a 2-year-old, 60-pound rabid female mountain lion at 4:30 a.m. The lion retreated under the cabin after they threw rocks at it. Near daybreak, the cougar attacked Kathleen, giving her four puncture wounds in the arm and knocking her to the ground. The others jumped on the cat and Robin stabbed it with a 12-inch kitchen bread knife. The cat bit off Winslow's thumb during the melee when the man grabbed the animal near its mouth. (SDUT 8/17/94, A3; OC)

10 December. (Attack #10, death #5) Iris M. Kenna, a 5-foot-4 and no more than 115 pounds, 56-year-old woman in excellent physical condition, was killed near Cuyamaca Peak at Cuyamaca Rancho State Park while hiking to Cuyamaca Peak alone in the early morning. She was attacked near the bench dedicated to her at the intersection of the Lookout Fire Road and Azalea Springs Fire Road / Fern Flat Fire Road. (SDUT 12/11/94 A1)

1995

20 March. (Attack #11) Scott Fike, a 27-year-old cyclist, was bitten and cut by a cougar near Mount Lowe in the Angeles National Forest, on 20 March 1995, and fought the cougar off with rocks. The cougar was then tracked down and killed. (SDUT 3/25/95, A3)

1996-2003
8 years with no known attacks.

2004

8 January. (Attacks #12 and 13; death #6) 35-year-old Mark Jeffrey Reynolds, an amateur mountain bike racer, was killed by a mountain lion sometime after 1:25 p.m. at Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in southern Orange County. His bicycle was later found with the chain unbroken, but off the sprockets. Jim Amormino, a spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff's Department, speculated that Mark was attacked as he was fixing his bike

Later the same day, Anne Hjelle, 30, of Santa Ana, a former Marine who works as a fitness instructor, was jumped by the same mountain lion. Anne was attacked a short distance down the trail from Mark's body, which was not visible to her, while she was riding her mountain bicycle. The lion jumped her from a slight rise (~4 feet) on the right hand side of the trail, from under some high brush. The lion quickly had Anne's face in its mouth, despite the presence of Anne's helmet. Her riding companion, Debi Nicholls, was about 30 feet behind Anne and witnessed the attack. Debi threw her bike at the mountain lion, to no avail, then grabbed Anne's legs and screamed as the lion dragged both of them 30 feet down the slope into the brush. The lion kept attacking Anne, alternating between her helmet, face and neck. The screams brought Nils Magnuson, 33, of Long Beach, and Mike Castellano to the scene, who called 911 and scared off the mountain lion by throwing rocks at it.

Anne was airlifted to Mission Hospital. Her condition was initially critical, was upgraded from serious as of early 9 January, and to fair as of 10 January.

Later that night, Sheriff's deputies shot and killed a healthy 3- to 4-year-old, 110-122 pound male lion, which was spotted 50 yards from the man's body. Initial tests found human skin tissue, and portions of a human lung and liver in the lion's stomach, which were confirmed later to match Mark's DNA. No fibers from Anne's clothing, nor any slivers from her helmet, were found in the initial examination, but later DNA tests matched Anne to the blood on one of the lion's claws. Curiously, no deer hairball was found in the lion.

Also that night, about four miles north of these attacks, a second mountain lion, a 70 pound female, was hit by a car and killed. This lion was not involved in either attack.

Sources: an anonymous mountain biker (email of 2/3/04); Nils Magnuson (personal emails of 1/17/04 and 1/23/04), Eric Sanderson (personal emails of 1/10/04, 1/11/04, 1/16/04 and 1/26/04); L.A. Times, 1/27/04; 1/11/04 (online story); 1/10/04, A1, A19; an anonymous mountain bike rider (see below); Signon San Diego 1/9/04, 10:30 pm; L.A. Times 1/9/04, A1; CBS News / AP; KNBC-TV News Report, 11 pm, 1/8/04; L.A. Times; NBC News.

26 June. 27-year-old Shannon Parker of Santa Monica, California, was attacked by a 2-year-old male cougar at about 6:15 p.m. near the Tulare County mountain community of Johnsondale, California, about 15 to 20 miles north of Kernville. Shannon lost her right eye and suffered injuries to her other eye and deep lacerations to her right thigh.

Shannon was hiking with her boyfriend, 28-year-old Mathias Maciejewski of Los Angeles, and two other friends, Jason Quirino, 30, and Ben Aaron Marsh, 15, both of Los Angeles, on a trail near the Johnsondale Bridge, which crosses the north fork of the Kern River. The trail follows a steep, rocky area up the west side of the river. Shannon left the group to walk back toward the parking area. She was attacked at a narrow area in the trail by a perilous 100 foot precipice.

When she began to scream, the others rushed to her assistance. "They heard her scream, 'Get it off me. Get it off me,'" said Brian Naslund, acting lieutenant for Kern County with the DFG. Maciejewski used a knife to stab the mountain lion twice in the shoulder, but it had little effect, Naslund said. Quirino or Marsh went to get help while Maciejewski and the remaining hiker threw rocks at the animal. "They hit it in the head a couple of times with the rocks, it let her go," Naslund said.

The hiker who went to get help found a person in the parking area who rushed toward Johnsondale, flagging down a Forest Service ranger, said Margie Clack, a spokeswoman for Sequoia National Forest. She said Parker was fortunate help came so fast: "There's no cell phone service in that area. Sometimes we can't even get through on the Forest Service radios." There are cabins in Johnsondale used as weekend homes, but there are almost no permanent residents, stores or businesses in the area. "It's surrounded by national forest land," Clack said.

Parker was taken by ambulance that Saturday night to an airport near Lake Isabella in northeastern Kern County, where a helicopter was waiting to fly her to Kern Medical Center in Bakersfield. Doctors there stabilized her condition before sending her on to UCLA Medical Center. By the following Tuesday her condition was stable after treatment and reconstructive surgery.

Sources: (The Fresno Bee; Tim Bragg; Hiker loses eye to big cat in Sierra Mountain lion is later killed in Tulare County; 06/28/2004) (SignOnSanDiego.com, the San Diego Union-Tribune; *Mountain lion that attacked hiker was undernourished; By Greg Risling, Associated Press; 06/28/2004)


2005-2006
No reported attacks.


2007
24 January. Hiking in Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park sometime before 3:00 p.m. in Humbolt County 50 miles north of Eureka in Orick, California, 70-year-old Jim Hamm was attacked by a cougar, apparently as it crept up from behind. The Fortuna, California, man was accompanied by his 65-year-old wife Nell. Both were reported as under 5'6".

According to supervising Ranger Maury Morningstar, "The wife said she didn't see the lion until she heard her husband, and when she turned around, the lion was attacking her husband."


Nell Hamm did all the right things. She approached and screamed at the lion. Then she grabbed a 4-inch-wide log and began beating it on its back. "It wouldn't let go, no matter how hard I hit it," she said.

While Jim was trying to tear at the face of the cat, Nell says, "Jim was talking to me all through this, and he said, 'I've got a pen in my pocket. Get the pen and jab him in the eye.'" "So I got the pen and tried to put it in his eye, but it didn't want to go in as easy as I thought it would." When the pen bent and became useless, Nell Hamm went back to using the log. "That lion never flinched," she said. "I just knew it was going to kill him."

Finally, Nell slammed the log butt-end into the cat's snout. The lion had ignored her until then. At last, she had its attention. With blood on it's snout from her blow, the lion let go, stepped back, an stood glaring at her with its ears pinned back. "I thought he was going to attack me," she said. She continued to scream, waving the log, and then, thankfully, the cat slipped into the ferns and disappeared.

Terrified that it might come back, Hamm told her husband that he had to get up and try to walk to the Newton B. Drury Parkway, parallel to U.S. Highway 101, to find help. He was losing blood quickly. "Somehow we made it out of there," she said.

About a quarter-mile away, they came upon an inmate work crew with the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection. The Eureka Reporter newspaper reported this crew found the man bleeding around 4 p.m. The four men went for help. As a result, the California Department of Forestry dispatched an ambulance from Arcata, which took the couple to the Mad River Community Hospital. State Park employees also responded. Jim Hamm underwent surgery for serious lacerations to his head, legs, arms, and hands.


The Hamms are healthy, athletic people. They play sports, scuba dive and run. Since they moved to Fortuna from Camarillo two years ago, they have hiked the trails in Humboldt County, clocking 6 to 12 miles, two to three times a week. Neither of them is large; both are under 5 feet 6 inches. But they had talked about what to do in case of a mountain lion attack: Scream, look big, fight back. "We fought harder than we ever have to save his life, and we fought together," she said. Both plan to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary next month (February, 2007).

Sources: (NBC11.com/San Jose, San Francisco, Oakland; Wife Saves Husband From Mountain Lion; 01/25/2007) (Yahoo! News; Mountain lion attacks hiker in Calif.; Lisa Leff, Associated Press Writer; Thu Jan 25, 11:03 PM ET) (CNN.com; Woman, 65, saves husband from mountain lion; AP; January 25, 2007) (The Eureka Reporter; Man Attacked By Mountain Lion; by Christine Bensen-Messinger; 1/25/2007) (The Times-Standard; 'I knew it was going to kill him'; John Driscoll/The Times-Standard; 01/26/2007)

I thank Linda Lewis for allowing me to reproduce her writeups of the 2004 and 2007 attacks.
 
While there are documented cases of being attacked by a mountain lion, you have more of a chance of being attacked by a shark while swimming in the ocean or being bitten by venomous snake. Either way there's not that much to worry about, however, it's always better to be prepared.
 
I saw an episode on Animal Planet or Discovery on Mountain Lions. They were saying that Mountain Lions had a 75% success rate with its attacks. The high success rates were attibuted to the opportunistic hunting style of the animals. For example, springing on its prey from elevated positions, and its preference to wait patiently for the perfect situation to attack or move on to a more sure thing.
They also showed how they always went for the neck. So if you think you are going to be attacked, your best bet is to always have on one of those big orange lifepreservers. That worked out for a 4 year old little girl who was attacked.
Seriously, the recommended actions were to make yourself look as large as posible by raising your arms like has already been said. Make yourself aware of your surrounding and be a "hard target", and if you are attacked cover your neck and run!
 
And P.S. I find it a ridiculous notion that a cat will scamper off and find easier prey, in the middle of an attack, because you inconvenienced it and the meal is going harder than normal

Actually, if you read up on cougars, you will find truth in that notion. Cats are amazingly fast and powerful predators, but they're also smart and would rather live to fight another day. That is why they prefer small and young or old and weak/crippled prey. Not too often you'll see footage of a cat going after the biggest baddest buck or bull in the herd. They do everything they can to minimize risk to their own well being, because the cat knows that if he chooses the 350 pound mulie buck with a massive 6x6 rack, he is much more likely to end up severely injured than if he goes for the 80 pound still-spotted fawn. Taking an antler to the chest could spell death for the cat; not necessarily from the wounds, but from starvation if the injury renders him unable to catch prey.

Unlike human hunters, they're not interested in proving that they can kill the bigger, stronger animal. They're interested in survival, which means catching and eating prey without getting hurt.

Anyone who truly knows about these animals has advised that if they attack, your best bet for survival is to fight like hell with everything you've got. People who have survived such attacks have done just that (or someone else came to their aid).
 
Seems the well armed supermen here don't understand that a Lion attack is the offense and you are on defense! You will not be attacked from the front by such an animal and when it happens, you will not know immediately what hit you. While I am armed everywhere but church and the Post Office, I don't believe that having a gun in a lion attack would do much more than make you shoot yourself somewhere while trying to fend off an attacker with ten razors that is glued to your back! Sure, fight for your life by whatever means are available but train for reality people. If you are creeping around in the woods ready to shoot anything that moves, you are a liability and that will statistically catch up with you before the Puddy Tat!
 
Speaking as a guy who recently had a lion in the yard (which ended up capped by a nieghbor), the 140lb juvenile tom didn't spend a lot of time looking for old, weak and lame. He just gnawed down when he was hungry...deer, dog, horses, whatever. One of the advantages, one supposes, of being on the top of the food chain.

I recommend the book THE BEAST IN THR GARDEN on Boulder's "urban lions." They are comfortable around people and crazy dangerous.

BTW, I was once interviewed by a reporter from Outside Online, who noted that I spent a lot of time on the edges of the known universe and that I seemed to be "bullet-proof." I replied that was because I was a skilled backswoodsperson, practiced a large and eclectic skill-set, knew my own limitations and was generally very heavily armed.

Guess which quote didn't make it?

Michael B
 
revjen45 is in error:

...but remember that tinfoil hats have to be grounded to work.

No, the induced currents just eddy around and are soon dissipated as heat. Just like in the spinning discs in old-time electric meters.

revjen45 is correct in that:

In the DPRK it's probably illegal to resist when attacked by a predator that's protected by law.

That's becasue they are endowed by their Creator with inalienable natural rights which are protected by law.

Unlike us --whose rights are alienable any time the Lawmakers want.

(I'm waiting for puns on "inalienable". [...Drums fingers on desk.])
 
We have a bear problem in Colorado. The rangers suggest hikers carry a whistle and pepper spray for defence.

You can tell if a bear is in your area by looking for scat. You can tell bear scat with a little examination...it will have whistles in it and smell like pepper.
 
MachIV if you re-read the post you'll see that those calculations go on BEFORE the attack. I wrote essentially the same thing as you, word for word...

And it's all IRRELEVANT because IT HAS ATTACKED YOU. So your advise might work if you're telling people to grow antlers, but otherwise it is irrelevant, because the cats HAVE chosen you as weak and HAVE attacked, that's what we're talking about.

Predator drive means they don't give up easy, period. It is ON, they've tasted your blood, and they won't simply leave you alone unless you do MASSIVE trauma. Period. If you've seen even TINY cats attack, you'd realize that predator drive is probably nearly overwhelming during the incident. Imagine being attacked by the angriest, drunkest, biggest thug, and then multiply it X10, these animals are MEAN, really really mean man. Plus if you do harm the cat there's no guarantee that cat will even notice until afterwards, it's got to be massive, like a point-blank gunshot wound with the muzzle gasses blowing it wider open. A comma-cut with your Benchmade might do it too, but honestly it's NOT going to be easy to do that, and the K.I.S.S. rule punishes those who fragrantly break it.
 
Do any of the footwear companies make hiking boots with stilletos in the toes? Like the ones they had in "From Russia with Love"? That and a set of Edward Scissorhands gloves should even the odds a bit.
 
second that

I recommend the book THE BEAST IN the GARDEN on Boulder's "urban lions." They are comfortable around people and crazy dangerous.

I called a radio show the author was on but when I mentioned guns for self defense I got taken off the air.....

As far as cats "controlling" arms I didn't mean like a wrestling hold.
I've seen kitty cats attack snakes and birds and they will use their paws to hold a wing or a tail as they are biting the neck.
I imagine a cougar could do the same.....

As far as dogs, I would imagine if they are big enough they would scare off the lion and if small enough the lion would go for the dog first, allowing you time to get the gun.
THE BEAST IN the GARDEN
reports that lions eat your face first....yuck....
 
This reminds me of a situation several years back.

While Hiking/Camping out in BLM land we ran across some other folks who seemed very upset that we where all armed, As one of the gentleman was berating us for using the area to "Play Soldier" (Apparently because I was wearing bdu pants and had a shotgun, and my associates had rifles thats what we where obviously doing:rolleyes: ) and questioning why we even need firearms out there. I was kinda looking around waiting for the fellow to finish I noticed mountain lion tracks all over the trail we where standing on.

When he finished berating us I pointed out the tracks and he seemed quite surprised and worried.

The strangest thing is that night the same folks who where so angry with us for being armed set up their camp awfully close to ours. :D
 
Ron when you're in the mountains, alone, 'statistics' don't have much comfort value compared to cold steel.

Lucky, I agree with you. That's why I said it's always batter to be prepared. If allowed, I've always carried when camping or hiking.
 
I moved from Pasadena, California to Texas a year and a half ago. Pasadena is 3 or 4 miles from La Crescenta, along the same stretch of foothills. I have seen a mountain lion in the hills before - not to mention several large bobcats. The foothills of the San Gabriel mountains also have resident bears. The threat to local hikers is a very real one when one considers that it is now almost routine to see stories on the news of bears and big cats invading back yards which back up onto the national forest areas. I was once watching a story on the TV news about a mountain lion that had been cornered in a backyard in Monrovia (near Pasadena). As I watched, I became aware that the backyard belonged to a friend of mine. Unfortunately, authorities were unable to dart and remove the animal, so they had to shoot it. Yes, unfortunate... but far far less unfortunate than it would have been if that cat had taken one of my friend's young children.

Whenever I went mountain biking or hiking in the San Gabriels, I carried a Colt .380 in a fanny pack. I don't know for certain if it would have been enough gun against a large predator, because thankfully I never had to use it. But, it seemed like the ideal compromise with weight and portability in mind. Also, I was as equally concerned about human predators, as local gangs often found foothill campgrounds, which are easily accessible, to be ideal places to go party without bringing the cops around.
 
Add to the list of cougar attacks:

Some years ago (8-10 ??) I read a Readers Digest article about an old cowboy who got attacked by a cougar. This was in Nevada I think. His horse dumped him and ran off, but his little cowdog stayed around and helped save the man's life. I don't remember if the dog survived or not. The story ended with fellow saying that now he carries a pistol, which he hadn't done the first 40 years or so of his range career.

I dunno if one could get a handgun into action during a cougar attack or not, but one thing is for sure - you ain't gonna be able to use a gun to defend yourself if you don't have it with you :rolleyes:

At least the cougar is not likely to take it away and use it against you :D
 
My advice would be not to go hiking with this guy. What a maroon.

I don't agree. I think backpacking with him is a great Idea. All you would have to carry is a .22lr pistol.

Shoot him in the leg and serve him up to the kitty. Once he hits the ground wigglin’ and wailin’ from the shot in the knee cap, Morris on steroids is gonna think "CHEWTOY" and go for him.
 
But: It seems to me that if actually attacked, a knife would be better than a gun.
Getting in a knife fight with a human-sized creature that can simultaneously wield 18 knives and four daggers is not really a fair fight, though...
 
I'm surprised that nobody in California has yet mentioned the central moral issues.

If you have presented yourself as a tasty meal to a hungry mountain lion and then attempt to prevent him from consuming you, are you not at least morally guilty of teasing that poor animal?

Then too, if you were successful at escaping, imagine what a crushing blow it would suffer to its self esteem.

I'm sure that California's governor and legislators have also run the numbers. There must be many, many more human beings in California than there are mountain lions. Mountain lions are therefore much more valuable than people in California. A few people more or less can't matter as much as one mountain lion.

Anyone attacked by a mountain lion in California has the duty to be eaten.
 
There must be many, many more human beings in California than there are mountain lions. Mountain lions are therefore much more valuable than people in California. A few people more or less can't matter as much as one mountain lion.

You know ... that really almost makes sense :D

At least the mountain lions don't vote :p
 
down south here there is plenty of stuff that will eat you.including now, pythons. i don't pack because of them,mainly because of that movie,deliverence. ;)
 
We sometimes want to lesson the animal and build ourselves up. While I believe you should always be prepared in wilderness trips, I don't "sport" hunt anymore. If I'm not going to eat the game I don't hunt it. Don't get me wrong, controlled hunts help keep game populations healthy and many, especially deer, would be desicrated without them. Does this mean I go on my Alaska camping/ fishing trips without my S&W .50cal, no way. I do sleep better at night knowing that it's there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top