Moving to N. VA: Seeking Advice

[countertop]

Picture this: From Goose Creek to Leesburg on Rt 7, nothing but a few farmhouses and a lot of open grazing land. Sterling did not exist. Oh, the good old days.

Aaah, the good old days. It was still sort of like that when I first started dating my wife 10 years ago.

Now, of course, its mostly ugly, sterile office buildings, strip malls (and big box retailers), new pre fab homes, and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of cars (did I mention the traffic is pretty bad?)

 

[JJNA]

Thank You All Again for the Ideas

Some more questions:

1. So, in VA, even if I have a CPL, I cannot carry concealed at a restaurant if the it serves alcohol (something which I am able to do in Seattle)? Good grief, that's going to ruin my lifestyle. I am going to have to a) leave my carry pistol in the car, 2) open-carry and scare people or III) not go to restaurants that serve alcohol. None of these is an attractive option.

Is there any chance this goofy regulation would change anytime soon?

2. How about Chantilly, Ashburn and Sterling? Are they safe areas? My wife and I are looking more and more at Loudoun county areas, particularly immediately NW of Great Falls.

I also noticed that Herndon has good sized homes at lower prices than in some of the surrounding areas. What's wrong with Herndon?

3. How is the quality of home/townhome construction in NoVA? In Seattle, during the Internet boom years many shabby buildings of all kinds (particularly condos and townhomes) went up, leading to many lawsuits later. In general, has the real estate boom in NoVA resulted in lower quality construction there?

Thank you again for all the ideas.

James
http://gunsandbutter.blogspot.com

 

[Namvet]

JJNA,

Virtually all areas of Northern Virginia are safe. You have to remember that this area has one of the highest median incomes in the nation. There is gang activity, but it rarely impacts anyone other than other/rival gang-members. Housing prices are insane here. Even in Loudon and Fauqiuer counties. It is a fairly gun-friendly area, though. Virginia Arms, Gilberts Small Arms Range, Potomac Arms, Clark Brothers are all great gunshops. All American Gun has lost their lease, but I liked them too. Blue Ridge Arsenal and Loudon Guns are not on my favorites list.
I do have a VA. CHL and would never open-carry, anywhere. Open-carry serves no real purpose other saying that you can. Has and does cause problems.
Note to Ol' Badger: The FAT know-it-all has worked in the firearms industry and is a custom gunsmith whose work has been featured in national publications. He may come off wrong to overly sensitive people, but he does indeed know what he is talking about.
DRC

 

[Bubbles]

IMO the biggest factor in deciding where to live is to look at where you'll be working, and live in a place that gives you a relatively easy commute.

For instance, I live in Sterling and work in Chantilly. Door to door commute is 11 miles and 20 minutes each way. I used to work in Rosslyn - 26 miles and 75 minutes away at best, plus tolls and dealing with HOV (high-occupancy vehicle or "car-pool") lanes at certain times of the day.

Chantilly, Ashburn, Sterling, and Herndon are as "safe" as any area in the region. I chose Sterling over Herndon when I bought my townhouse twelve years ago b/c the Town of Herndon charges its own property tax on top of the Fairfax County real-estate tax, and that made a difference in how much house I could afford at the time.

Be prepared for real-estate sticker shock. Property assessments are rising 20-40% annually.

Politically, Loudoun County is red, Fairfax is blue.

On the CCW in restaurants issue - just open carry and dress decently. People have gotten used to it, and the ones who actually notice will think you're an off-duty LEO.

 

[KONY]

I am going to have to a) leave my carry pistol in the car, 2) open-carry and scare people or III) not go to restaurants that serve alcohol. None of these is an attractive option.

Well, these three don't really describe the open carry scene in NoVA. Want some real first hand accounts that I can vouch for (as in I was actually there)? Go here:

www.bighammer.net

This log of open carry nights out in NoVA are priceless accounts supporting the idea that things usually go very smoothe. Hope this helps!

 

[mtnbkr]

Even though NoVa is the more liberal part of Va, it's still pretty conservative and gun friendly compared to other states.

When you start looking for a home (apt or house), pay attention not only to your neighborhood, but any that might be around it. Nova has a lot of areas where you'll have a decent neighborhood right next to a slum. It's more of a problem with apartments and townhomes than single family homes though.

Chris

 

[Smurfslayer]

Lots to do in the Commonwealth

You've gotten some good advice in previous responses.

I see my good friend Kony has beaten me to it WRT open carry here.

One with which I disagree:

"I do have a VA. CHL and would never open-carry, anywhere. Open-carry serves no real purpose other saying that you can. Has and does cause problems."

This is subjective and opinion, not fact. As Kony pointed out, I document incidents of open carry for exactly this reason. It looks from the numbers like guys and gals from NH have more trouble with Open Carry than anyone else.

In my opinion, it is exactly this attitude and statement which fascilitates the contemplation, discussion and eventual legislation to restrict our rights in the first place. Concealed carry is a privilege except in Vermont. Alaska passed a law to make it legal, and therefore it is a privilege there too. Permits and licenses represent a state granted privilege. As above stated, restaurants leave Virginians exercising their state granted privilege to carry concealed a choice - expose, or disarm (or break the law). I think the only problem that open carry causes is that I need 2 holsters for guns that I carry instead of one

That said, there's a time and place for everything and I prefer concealed. I don't want you to read the OC log and decide you'll open carry, nor am I bent on converting you. I just want it to show that the people who do it are regular folks, who aren't causing any trouble, are obeying the law and exercising their rights. In other words - Good Citizens.


MTNBKR Chris counseled to watch your neighborhoods, and I concur.

http://www.vaamberalert.com/
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/missing.htm
http://sex-offender.vsp.state.va.us/cool-ICE/

Fairfax has a pretty neat emergency alert that will email & text msg. your cell. Not sure of the other counties / cities.

Warnings of real estate prices were probably not taken seriously enough. This place is hopping. There's very little negotiating on prices, generally it's how much OVER the asking price the seller will get. Of the areas close to DC, Lorton, Woodbridge & Manassas are probably the cheapest. Springfield gets an honorable mention. Unfortunately if you look at the crime reports, these places are mentioned more often. There are pockets of calm in the sea though. Also, before settling on a place, DRIVE to it in rush hours and make sure you can live with it.

 

[KONY]

Great info offered-up by Smurfslayer!

 

[Namvet]

Smurfslayer,

Not opinion on the open carry and not subjective. Re: the Starbucks, Champ's, Reston Town Center incidents. (you may have been involved in these or remember them) I am a firm believer and solid supporter of firearms rights in Virginia and elsewhere. Open carry being one of those rights. I know dozens of people in the firearms business, collectors, competetive shooters, etc. in Virginia. Not a single one, for one reason or another, uses the open carry option. In fact, I have yet to see anyone, anywhere in Northern Virginia
utilize the open carry option.
Again, not damning it, just not for me and obviously not for lots of others as well.
PS The open carry hysteria has calmed down it seems. But, I feel that this is because so few people actually do it
DRC

 

[KONY]

PS The open carry hysteria has calmed down it seems. But, I feel that this is because so few people actually do it

Well, I have no source of statistics describing the number of people that open carry (besides Smurfslayer's accounts, which I can verify a number of because I was there) so I can't comment on this with a great amount of certainty (would welcome any other sources). However, I disagree with your opinion that there is no "hysteria" because so few people actually do it. In my opinion, seeing something that occurs rarely (again, assuming that open carry in restaurants is indeed a rare occurrence) would lead to MORE panic (people fear the unfamiliar) ... so this shouldn't be the reason. Plus, Smurfslayer's data shows there is no "hysteria" when one open carries and this proposition gains more weight as his accounts get larger (both in frequency and diversity of establishments).

 

[JJNA]

I fully understand the constitutional argument behind open carry. I personally do not have a problem with it (why would I?). If pushed enough, I might even admit that I do not care much about scaring others (remember I am an epicurean misanthrope, but a misanthrope nonetheless ).

In all seriousness, however, what I personally do not like about open carry is that it forces me to relinquish an element of surprise when forced into a confrontation. That is the real reason why I don't want to open carry.

I am still shaking my head at this strange requirement in VA. Even in hyper-liberal Seattle, there is no such restriction at restaurants, alcohol or no.

WA has its own share of quirks of course, eg. no open carry and prohibition at bars and "outdoor music festivals" (with a couple of thousand attendants, I think).

By the way, does anyone have a comment on build quality of homes in NoVA?

Lastly, how long is the commute from, say, Leesburg (or Ashburn) to Fairfax? Or from the same starting point to DC (K Street)?

James
http://gunsandbutter.blogspot.com

 

[chris in va]

I have a little input for you.

Bought a simple townhouse built in '74 for $89k 5 years ago, and just got a contract for it at $305k . Mainly latino families are buying up the more 'affordable' housing in NVA, and when you get here you'll find out just how many spanish there really are. WTOP reported upwards of 500,000+ in the DC area alone. I have a contract for a house out in Winchester (check on Mapquest) if that gives you any idea how far out I had to go for decent housing and still have a city around me. A realtor put it this way...anything within 60 miles of DC will have a severely overinflated housing market.

As for open carry in ABC restaraunts, I wouldn't worry too much about that. When I have to, I find a booth and sit with it facing the wall. So far after a couple times (I'm new to CCW) no one has made an issue. It's a silly law, I agree.

BTW here's a picture of my house I just sold. Like I said, nothing fancy and certainly not worth $305k IMO.

You'll like the NRA range, Shooters Paradise and Bull Run Shooting Center. I *love* shooting trap.

EDIT: Just saw your question about build quality. I am a professional window cleaner so I see a LOT of houses. The new ones they have been building for the past 10 years are S**T. Very cheaply done, shaky and get put up in a matter of days. The bigger, more expensive houses are just that...bigger and expensive, not better quality. The windows are cheap, walls shake, siding flies off in wind, etc. Try and find a house built in the 70's if you can. Very well made. Heck, mine has two steel I-beams in the basement.

 

[KONY]

Just saw your question about build quality. I am a professional window cleaner so I see a LOT of houses. The new ones they have been building for the past 10 years are S**T. Very cheaply done, shaky and get put up in a matter of days. The bigger, more expensive houses are just that...bigger and expensive, not better quality. The windows are cheap, walls shake, siding flies off in wind, etc. Try and find a house built in the 70's if you can. Very well made. Heck, mine has two steel I-beams in the basement.

Chris,

Thanks for this bit of info. As you know, I was thinking about buying this year but can't do it due to finances. However, next year, I will try again so I will take your advice about build quality. Honestly though, if the housing market doesn't get better for buyers by that time (doubtful), I will seriously think about moving elsewhere if I can find a decent place to work. With Florida's newly passed self-defense laws, I just may give living there another shot (spent 1.5 in Orlando for school).

 

[mtnbkr]

Unfortunately, I don't see it getting any better. The last "correction" was in the early 90s. It's done nothing but go up since then. There have been periods of slower growth, but even so, it's been fast and furious since about 1998 or so. Your best bet is to move to the outer fringes of NoVa, such as Stafford (maybe Fredericksburg) or west down 66 past Gainsville.

You might look into a 103% loan (or similar). Those will let you buy a house with no money down, not even closing costs. Your interest rate will be higher and you'll pay mortgage insurance, but after you get some equity in, you can refi for a lower rate and drop the PMI. I bought my house in 2001 this way (7.5%) and refi'ed in 2003 for 5.8%.

The nice thing about this housing market is that once you get a house, you'll be almost certain of making real money when you sell. That means a house in the country with land for a range.

Chris

 

[GuidoTorpedo]

I can't comment much on CCW in VA (as I haven't gotten mine yet), but I can comment on some good Thai restaurants.

Dungrats (in Falls Church)
Pelin (in Falls Church)
Sakoontra (in Fairfax)
www.sakoontra.com

I don't know what size place you are looking for, but I can comment on my recient condo buying experience (1 month ago). I just bought a condo right down the street from the NRA range (Fairfax, VA). It's a 2 br, 2 bath, with a loft and an attached garage (1505 sq ft.). Final price came out to $382,000. I can suggest a good realtor if you want.

As for ranges, I've only shot at a few places. Shooters Paradise (Woodbridge), the NRA range (Fairfax), and Clarks Bros (Warrenton???). The first two are indoor and allow both rifles and pistols (although the NRA is limited to 50 yards and Shooters is limited to 25). Clarks Bros is outdoors but the caveat is that you must buy their ammo to shoot there (no range fee though).

Shooters is OK. The employees are generally nice and the facilities are OK. They seem to have decient prices but their selection is mainly Glocks, Sigs, and 1911s (I'm a CZ guy). Their customers are usually questonable (being in Hood-bridge) and a lot of times you see a lot of unsafe and questionable activity.

The NRA is really nice. Their staff is VERY friendly and very helpful. Only issue is that they are strict with their time (since they are always busy) and sorta pricey. Make sure you bring your own ammo since they have a very limited selection.

Clarks Brothers was my least favorite. I didnt like that I had to purchase their ammo to use their range (I'd much rather pay a range fee). Their ammo prices were jacked up as a result and if you bring a wide variety of rifles with you (like my friends and I do), you end up paying out the nose. Their employees were a bunch if dicks (which is why I won't go back), especially the range safety officer. I had brought my GF (at the time) with me to teach her how to shoot, and while I was policing up some brass, he approached her and basically told her, "If you can't hit the target well, then you shouldn't be shooting a gun and you certainly shouldn't be on my range." It was her first time shooting and she wasn't the best shot. I'll never go back there because of that.

Potomac Arms (Old Town Alexandria) is a decient store. Their prices are similar to what Shooters has, but I believe since they are in the city of Alexandria, you have to wait 7 days before you're allowed to pick up your purchase (at least I did). The staff is knowledgable and moderately friendly and they have a good selection of firearms and ammo (especially difficult to find calibers like new manufacturer 8mm mauser). I was going to stop by this past weekend, but because of the rain, downtown Old Town was flooded.

Thats about all the comments I have. If you have any specifics, feel free to PM or ask here on the boards.

 

[JJNA]

Unfortunately, I don't see it getting any better. The last "correction" was in the early 90s. It's done nothing but go up since then. There have been periods of slower growth, but even so, it's been fast and furious since about 1998 or so. Your best bet is to move to the outer fringes of NoVa, such as Stafford (maybe Fredericksburg) or west down 66 past Gainsville.

For a new buyer, that is something of a reassurance. I don't want to buy at the peak and experience a sudden downturn in prices. While a substantial price increase after I buy would be nice, a steady, long-term growth would be just fine, and perhaps much better for the community at large in the end.

While not nearly as frenetic in the last few years -- thanks to the crashing tech/Internet boom -- housing prices in Seattle and the metro Seattle area, including the redder Eastside (Bellevue, Redmond and etc.) have been rising rapidly as well. Georgraphy also plays a role -- the region is surrounded on three sides by water and on one side by mountains. So I don't think I will be in that much of a sticker shock.

A couple more questions. Is South Riding a part of Chantilly? How would one characterize Chantilly, or South Riding, compared to, say, McLean or Falls Church?

Is Sterling between Ashburn and Great Falls? Both Sterling and Ashburn seem like newer developments? Is this the case? How do they fare in comparison to Great Falls?

Lastly, I see that detached homes are quite a bit less expensive in Herndon than in some of the tonier surrounding areas. The numbers (crime, income, education and etc.) seem to be somewhat worse in Herndon. Is this an accurate observation?

Oh, yes, one more thing. If one were to join one gun club/range in the area, which would you pick?

Thank you all for helpful comments. They have been useful in deciding where to buy!

James
http://gunsandbutter.blogspot.com

 

[Harry Tuttle]

Lovettsville is about to become Leesburg

the developers are massing
the commuters are plotting
the horse stables are exiting

last Friday at 4PM, there was a 3 MPH back up from Leesburgh to Lucketts

How many insta build townhouses can you shoehorn into a cornfield?

Making Route 15 into something bigger than 2 lanes might be a good thing.
Better raise the taxes and assesments to drive all the legacy folke away.

I spent last week in Johnstown PA
wanna see a 250K dollar house in a great school district?

Oh well, i better head to DC now
The traffic on 270 at the Beltway should have subsided by now.

 

[JJNA]

Johnstown, PA?

Home of the NDIC?

 

[JJNA]

I'm in NoVA

I made it to NoVA finally. And my goods arrived safely via United Van Lines too.

I like it here. It's definitely a different way of life than the one that exists in Seattle (if anyone wants to know why I left Seattle, read my column in the Seattle Times here).

On my personal blog, Guns and Butter, there are also some entries about what I don't like about the region so far (I detest the local telephone monopoly here).

I quite like all the "Bush 2004" stickers here too (my old neighborhood in Seattle, Queen Anne, had a bewildering array of "Impeach Bush" stickers everywhere).

My thanks to all of you who made very helpful comments.

 

[countertop]

Welcome to NoVA

Where did you end up?

Let me know if you want to hit the range any time soon.

 

[chris in va]

Hey, you made it. Fantastic.

So after reading all our descriptions and seeing it first hand, how close were we? Open carried yet in a restaraunt?

 

[XLMiguel]

Welcoome, Y'all

Glad to hear you made it OK. After the dust settles (like, hung some TP, made a bed, put a 6-pack in the cooler, etc ) check in at the Rallying Point and come on out to the NRA Range some Friday PM and get acquainted in person.

 

[countertop]

You going to the range this Friday?

 

[garyk/nm]

James,
I just have to say your column in the Times is one of the most eloquent and non-threatening put-downs I have ever seen. I wonder if they'll get it. Nicely done, Sir!

 

[brickeyee]

"...since they are in the city of Alexandria, you have to wait 7 days before you're allowed to pick up your purchase..."

Recently pre-empted by the State.

If you do decide to look in Falls Church, be aware that the city is not the same as the mailing address. Ads will clearly state "Falls Church City", as opposed to just "Falls Church". It is a rather $$ area, like McLean and Great Falls.

Crime is actually pretty low throughout Northern Virginia, but the crime that occurs tends to be localized to neighborhoods (and among the gangs). Culmore in Baileys Crossroads is not a great area, the low rise housing near 7-corners is not very good, and there are a few old garden apartment spots in Falls Church (city and mailing address) that eave something to be desired.

Housing prices remain crazy, with close in prices being very high.

For a shorter waiting list than Fairfax Rod & Gun (many years last time I checked) you can try the Arlington-Fairfax Izaac Walton League. Decent shotgun, a 100 yard rifle range (no targets closer than 25 yards though, even for handgun), archery, air rifle, a fishing pond, and a generally nice place.