Actually, since they include everything from suicides to intentional familial homocide in that statistic the number is not wholly inaccurate, just wildly inflated to support the aganda. If you look at just about any statistical study you'll find similar inclusions and ommissions that severely skew the results.
MSNBC Special on Kids & Guns
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Actually, since they include everything from suicides to intentional familial homocide in that statistic the number is not wholly inaccurate, just wildly inflated to support the aganda. If you look at just about any statistical study you'll find similar inclusions and ommissions that severely skew the results.
Titan6
member
I did not see it. I know plenty of British people though. They are all military. They think British guns are horrible and need to be repealed.
Tropical Buzz
Member
The anti gun crowd definitely has a higher media profile than the rest of us. Quite likely because they have an agenda burning a hole in their shorts while our "cause" is mainly just being free to go quietly about our business.
In the interest of counteracting the incessantly regurgitated myths and stereotypes that could negatively impact our cause, maybe we need a media counter-campaign. One showing the positive (read - "ordinary") side of gun ownership and - in a reasonable manner* - highlighting the gross disparity in the amount of carnage resulting from parents handing kids the car keys vs. that resulting from learning to use guns.
*Reasonable in the sense that it is presented for relevant comparison only, and not to portray the automobile as a malevolent killer.
In the interest of counteracting the incessantly regurgitated myths and stereotypes that could negatively impact our cause, maybe we need a media counter-campaign. One showing the positive (read - "ordinary") side of gun ownership and - in a reasonable manner* - highlighting the gross disparity in the amount of carnage resulting from parents handing kids the car keys vs. that resulting from learning to use guns.
*Reasonable in the sense that it is presented for relevant comparison only, and not to portray the automobile as a malevolent killer.
I saw approx the first minute. It was pretty clear it was going to be pure anti-gun. On the other hand, in that first minute there was a shot of a kid about 8 years old shooting something full-auto. Granted it was under close supervision and the gun wasn't out of control, that's still a bad idea in my book. You gotta remember that kids don't understand things like adults do even when they seem to. Nor do they have the self-control.
There was a statistic like "a child gets killed by a gun every 4 hours". It's similar to a the Brady claim of "a classroom of children every 3 days". (Don't remember the exact claim in either case.) I would like to see the detail. You can take for granted that they try to make the number sound as horrific as possible, which isn't hard since even one accidental death is pretty horrible. But the detail is important if you are going to do something about it.
Young kids will be kept safe by locks and other easy to understand practices. I'm pretty sure Brady inflates the numbers by including everyone up to 17. Any kid above about about 12 can get into anything you can which makes it more difficult.
There is a large component of the gun deaths which are teen-age suicides. These are mostly on impulse, and quite likely won't happen if the gun is not available. Teens, even model citizens, have poor impulse control by adult standards. If you have a teen and a gun, you have a risk, however small it seems to you.
There was a statistic like "a child gets killed by a gun every 4 hours". It's similar to a the Brady claim of "a classroom of children every 3 days". (Don't remember the exact claim in either case.) I would like to see the detail. You can take for granted that they try to make the number sound as horrific as possible, which isn't hard since even one accidental death is pretty horrible. But the detail is important if you are going to do something about it.
Young kids will be kept safe by locks and other easy to understand practices. I'm pretty sure Brady inflates the numbers by including everyone up to 17. Any kid above about about 12 can get into anything you can which makes it more difficult.
There is a large component of the gun deaths which are teen-age suicides. These are mostly on impulse, and quite likely won't happen if the gun is not available. Teens, even model citizens, have poor impulse control by adult standards. If you have a teen and a gun, you have a risk, however small it seems to you.
Carlos Cabeza
Member
Teenage Suicides ! ??????
All the teenagers I know are well adjusted, educated, active young adults. The ones who's PARENTS helped to guide them through the emotional, hormonally charged times.
I guess things were different when I was a "tweener"......................................I NEVER considered putting the damn thing in my MOUTH!
Teenagers kill themselves everyday ! with CARS ! OMG ! The parents provided the deadly vehicle ! Handed them the keys !
All the teenagers I know are well adjusted, educated, active young adults. The ones who's PARENTS helped to guide them through the emotional, hormonally charged times.
I guess things were different when I was a "tweener"......................................I NEVER considered putting the damn thing in my MOUTH!
Teenagers kill themselves everyday ! with CARS ! OMG ! The parents provided the deadly vehicle ! Handed them the keys !
I did some digging on the CDC web site. Latest data is 2005. About 28% of the gun deaths in the 10-19 year old range are due to suicide.
The more interesting fact is that 87% of gun deaths 19 and younger are in the 15-19 age range. It's a far cry from the "classrooms of children" in the Brady literature. In fact, 58% of all "child" gun deaths area related to crime and/or law enforcement.
The more interesting fact is that 87% of gun deaths 19 and younger are in the 15-19 age range. It's a far cry from the "classrooms of children" in the Brady literature. In fact, 58% of all "child" gun deaths area related to crime and/or law enforcement.
KBintheSLC
Member
Thanks for the warning... my blood pressure is rising just thinking about it.
Carl
Member
Brits are just jealous. 
shotgunjoel
Member
I watched it, it made full auto look like the common place firearm in America, and that things "blow up" when you shoot them. Well that might all be true if you are at the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot, where they put propane tanks and tannerite in the cars they shoot at. Also I wonder how many families they had to interview before they found the ones they wanted to. Like they picked on the Christian family with 9 kids that are home schooled. They are going after "religious wackos" just as much as they are after gun owners in this show. I hated it, but I watched to see what BS they had going through their heads.
CapnMac
Member
Careful, NBC owns SciFi Channel <g>
G-4, & Bravo, too for that matter.
Gunnerpalace
Member
It seems more and more evident ever day (especially with the economy here) that the British want their successful little colony back.
I watched the whole thing. The inference was that half of the 60 million US gun owners take their single digit-aged children to kiddie gun school, then turn them loose with full auto weapons. Just the sort of well researched, accurate journalism we've all come to expect from the BBC.
riiiiiight.....
riiiiiight.....
HOME DEPOT GEORGE
Member
I like the part where they were filming a full auto shoot and said there were on average 5000 of these shoots annually in the US.
Hani Pasha
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"I like the part where they were filming a full auto shoot and said there were on average 5000 of these shoots annually in the US."
But wouldn't that be very, very nice?
But wouldn't that be very, very nice?
I think its pretty obvious the media in anti gun. I wouldn't trust their statistics; since I know how easily they can be manipulated for their intended affect. And in the case of media -- it's pretty clear they don't want private gun ownership.
I didn't see the special but if they're showing a kid going full auto -- the idea is private citizens with guns are nuts and not responsible people; therefore their guns should be confiscated.
I didn't see the special but if they're showing a kid going full auto -- the idea is private citizens with guns are nuts and not responsible people; therefore their guns should be confiscated.
For all these anti-gun sentiments, you have to admit we've made some pretty decent progress lately. AWB expired and all attempts to reauthorize it have been shutdown so far. Heller affirming the individual right. Now all but two states have at least some form of CCW. Laws are starting to get passed in states to prohibit employers from preventing employees to keep guns in their cars. And soon enough we should have incorporation. MSNBC can show whatever bull**** they want, but I do think we are moving in the right direction.
I didn't watch it. For those that did, would it be possible to draft a letter people could send to the network pointing out thier numerous errors and clear bias? I know the news media presents whatever they think will draw attention, but they generally like to present the idea that they're unbiased. So if a bunch of people point out clear errors and notable bias, someone might at least think twice before delivering more of the same crap. Or maybe not. Who knows.
I'd bet a bagillion dollars that letter would see a trash can before a set of eyeballs at MSNBC. They aren't interested in BEING unbiased. They are interesting in saying and seeming unbiased. If they actually were unbiased, theyd have to be a 1 hour news station and not 24.
Kellerman tabulated gunshot deaths occurring in King County, Washington, from 1978 to 1983, how meaningful is his ratio?
Suicides 333
Criminal homicide 41
Accidental 12
Unknown 3,
= 389
vs 9 self-protection homicides
43:1 Ratio
Do that with non-gun police investigated deaths:
Suicide 347,
Criminal homicide 50,
Accidental 0, (not counting motorvehicle)
Unknown 0
= 397
vs 4 self-protection homicides (unlikely number, it assumse 4 unexokaubed are all self-defense, even though this would make King County numbers of unarmed self protection homocides 1000% higher than the national average)
90:1
Put another way:
More martial artists are killed by attackers using unarmed attacks than successfully kill an attacker when defending themselves using unarmed attacks.
Does this mean it is unsafe to learn martial arts?
mgregg85
Member
Awful, simply awful. I hated that ominous narrator.
Gun Slinger
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My biggest laugh came when they had the guy who was a holding a piece of 50 caliber ammunition in his hand so the cameraman could view it:
Narrator: What's that?
Guy: Its a fifty caliber round. It fires a seven hundred grain bullet at twenty-two hundred feet per second.
Narrator: What does it do when it hits a deer?
Guy: Blows up.
Beautiful.
Yeah, we Yanks are a right strange and quite an unsportsmanslike group, y'know? Blowing those beautiful animals to smithereens with explosively tipped "anti-tank" rounds.
So, now the Brits think that we traipse about the countryside blasting whitetail deer out of existance in the name of "sport" with "anti-tank" rifles.
Just dandy.
Narrator: What's that?
Guy: Its a fifty caliber round. It fires a seven hundred grain bullet at twenty-two hundred feet per second.
Narrator: What does it do when it hits a deer?
Guy: Blows up.
Beautiful.
Yeah, we Yanks are a right strange and quite an unsportsmanslike group, y'know? Blowing those beautiful animals to smithereens with explosively tipped "anti-tank" rounds.
So, now the Brits think that we traipse about the countryside blasting whitetail deer out of existance in the name of "sport" with "anti-tank" rifles.
Just dandy.
Just finished watching it with my wife (we DVR'd it Sunday night). I knew going in that it was going to be rough, so I decided to just let it play and try my best to maintain my blood pressure to a respectable level.
A few things I learned:
The vast majority of gun owners own full-auto, belt-fed, crew served weapons.
Guns sound more menacing if you add extra adjectives. Instead of just saying it's an AR-15 rifle, it's better to decribe it as air-cooled and shoulder fired. Of course that description applies to almost every rifle on the planet.
AR-15s are the same rifles used by special forces.
AR-15 and AK-47 are interchangeable terms (girl clearly handling an AR while annoying Brit narrator describes it as an AK-47).
If you defend your home with an AK, it's overkill. My question to Brit twit narrator would be "If the individual(s) breaking in to harm my family also has an AK, is it still overkill?"
You can purchase a rocket launcher at your local gun store.
A few things I learned:
The vast majority of gun owners own full-auto, belt-fed, crew served weapons.
Guns sound more menacing if you add extra adjectives. Instead of just saying it's an AR-15 rifle, it's better to decribe it as air-cooled and shoulder fired. Of course that description applies to almost every rifle on the planet.
AR-15s are the same rifles used by special forces.
AR-15 and AK-47 are interchangeable terms (girl clearly handling an AR while annoying Brit narrator describes it as an AK-47).
If you defend your home with an AK, it's overkill. My question to Brit twit narrator would be "If the individual(s) breaking in to harm my family also has an AK, is it still overkill?"
You can purchase a rocket launcher at your local gun store.
Duke of Doubt
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- 2,863
Gun Slinger: "So, now the Brits think that we traipse about the countryside blasting whitetail deer out of existance in the name of "sport" with "anti-tank" rifles."
There are advantages to this. Some of my clients imagine I'm far more off-the-wall dangerous than the low-key, easygoing sweetheart I really am.
There are advantages to this. Some of my clients imagine I'm far more off-the-wall dangerous than the low-key, easygoing sweetheart I really am.
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