My defensive handgun experience last night (5/20/09)

[BhmBill]

When are you supposed to draw your weapon?

When the imminent threat perceived to you, others, and/or your property (where legal) is great enough.

A person, drunk or not, whom you do not personally know or trust is trying to gain entry to your locked vehicle without your consent.... You gotta be dumber than a sack of hammers to not perceive that as a threat.

Just because it he said he wanted a ride doesn't mean thats all he wanted. Rarely do people who are out to commit a crime let their true intent become known.

I honestly can't say I wouldn't have reacted the same way. Certainly don't 2nd guess yourself. 2nd guessing and underestimating a threat can easily get you killed.

The gun did its job. It prevented a situation from becoming more serious for the OP.

 

[ezypikns]

I'll be the second.

Well, I guess I'll be the first to say this is absolutely ridiculous.
You'd be toast in court if you'd shot him.

Jiggling passenger car door < threatening you verbally < banging on passenger window < jiggling driver door < breaking a window < threatening you with a weapon.


You seriously jumped the gun (pun intended

Just a guess, but if he'd been a little less drunk and called the police on a cell phone, you'd probably have gone to jail.

You're in an automobile. If you don't want him to get in, maybe you could just drive away?

 

[GlockFan1954]

I wouldn't have taken it out and pointed it unless be started smashing a window. Even if he kept juggling the door, he's just a drunk "friend" trying to get a ride.

Even if he started smashing windows I'd have hit the accelerator. Yes I know you were "boxed in.". But were you really? Unless you were literally bumper to bumper front and back you can generate a lot of force with a car by gassing slamming reversing gassing braking etc. Hell to me smashing another car around me on accident to escape somE dude breaking a window is better than even pointing let alone shooting at a person. In all liklihood he would have left if you started bucking the car at that point.

My theory is: respond to weapons not people or situations. Is an ex con juggling your handle in a "boxed in" place scary? Yes. That's why you shouldn't react to that alone - fear clouds judgment. Keep an eye on hands always. If he has knife but is outside especially on passengers side, then locked doors are enough and having the gun ready suffices. If he starts breaking in with a knife in hand then aim but don't fire. Only if he does not stop at that point do you fire.

If he has a gun of course fire immediately if he's coming for you.

The only time fists alone would justify pointing a gun would be if he was in a position to severely beat you or you're vastly outnumbered. Running - even by smashing neighboring cars - is better.

 

[hankdatank1362]

Well, I guess I'll be the first to say this is absolutely ridiculous.
You'd be toast in court if you'd shot him.

I don't know about TOAST, but I'm not willing to bet my life and freedom on it. I wouldn't have shot him, but I did want him to stop doing what he was doing RIGHT THEN AND THERE, and the display of force, even though it may have technically been uncalled for and possibly illegal, was merely a means to an end. Breaking some silly brandishing law... I can live with.

Now, if he became enraged and advanced after he saw the presentation of my weapon, I can only assume that he knows somehting I don't (like he's armed too) and proceed accordingly.

 

[liveone]

Your gun is to protect yourself from someone trying to take your life. Not to protect yourself from annoyance or make people stop touching your property or make you miss your movie.

That guy seemed happy to have discovered a co-worker who would surely help him out. That's why he tried to enter your car and not the others. If he wanted to overpower someone and take their car, do you think you'd be his first choice over all the other cars he approached?

If that gun went off you'd be in prison.

 

[ezypikns]

Carrying is a terrible responsibility.

and the display of force, even though it may have technically been uncalled for and possibly illegal, was merely a means to an end. Breaking some silly brandishing law... I can live with.

Then perhaps you don't mind spending some time in a "silly" jail?


Second guessing by anyone (even yours truly) is not too productive, and frankly, none of us can definitely say what we would or wouldn't have done in similar circumstances. I'm just urging you to MAYBE use a little more discretion next time.

 

[David904]

Some folks will damn you for using a person's tattoos as a metric by which you can evaluate a man's character. I stand in the opposite camp.

Generally speaking, people tend to get tattoos to commemorate something significant in their life - good and bad. I see nothing wrong with getting a tattoo that commemorates a stretch in prison. However, if you choose to get this tattoo in a regularly visible part of your body, I am going to operate under the assumption that you are proud of having done time.

That said, I would deem you to be an unsavory character who would have precisely zero qualms about doing something that would get you tossed bag into the system.

Combine that with not knowing you for more than a few hours a day for fewer than 2 weeks; seeing you try to get into my car despite my verbal opposition... I would believe you to be a very real threat to my safety and life.

Would I have drawn in this particular instance? I don't know. But if I hadn't and it turned out that I didn't manage to lock it, I'd suspect that I'd be wishing I had pulled.

In the future, it might be advisable to mount a holster in your car that affords you easy access from your position in the driver's seat. That might afford you a little extra time to evaluate the situation should the need ever arise once again.

 

[Rockwell1]

I'm amazed no one's thought to ask the important question

I was on my way to meet some buddies from school and go catch the midnight opening of Terminator: Salvation.

Was it worth the price of admission?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

so tim scares you?

 

[phantomak47]

Was Tim going to inflict serious bodily injury and or Death upon you.....................? Were you in fear of your life?

 

[Grey_Mana]

Even if he started smashing windows I'd have hit the accelerator. Yes I know you were "boxed in.". But were you really? Unless you were literally bumper to bumper front and back you can generate a lot of force with a car by gassing slamming reversing gassing braking etc. Hell to me smashing another car around me on accident to escape somE dude breaking a window is better than even pointing let alone shooting at a person. In all liklihood he would have left if you started bucking the car at that point.

I'm all for damaging my car to save my life, but slamming your car around puts you and the other innocent people in their cars at risk. If the guy you hit perceives you as threatening his life with your car ramming antics, and he happens to be cc...

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Timmy the Taxcheat diddling with the FED worries me more than a timmy the coworker who cannot handle his drink.

David904's words on Tattoos is dead on +1.

Pondering this further. I would not have allowed myself to be boxed in by traffic like that. I dont now. Other cars think Im nuts for leaving that open space and dive into it.

If I fired on timmy the drunk trying to get into my vehicle I would have been jailed. But would it be legal? Erm... probably. Then again, probably not.

You see, when a complete stranger is about to open your vehicle like a fish tin wanting in and scaring the life out of you, open fire. But when co workers, family, friends and those you know in passing.... you draw on them.... YOU are the one most likely to eat the book.

 

[bigione]

Plus I hate to clean up the puke after giving the drunk a ride!!!!

 

[Pyzon]

Like others, I would never second guess the emotions roaring through your head as Timmy was tapping on your window, let alone jiggling the door handle hoping to get in the car with you whether he recognized you or not.

But, if Tim could later that same evening come up with the cash to square a skipped tab, he for sure had the cash to call a cab.

And if he is between 25 and 30 and behaves like that, it's only a matter of time until plenty more bad stuff is coming his way if he drinks that hard in public (or at work !!) and tries to get strangers on the street to let him in their car for a ride home or anyplace else.

I'd hope he is no longer employed with you, and also hope you never encounter him again.

The replies that you would likely take it on the chin (or worse) if you had decided you had to plug him are unfortunatly probably correct too, based on the fact the car door was locked, no attempt to break the window was made, and lastly, he was known to you.

 

[mordechaianiliewicz]

Well, I can't be mad here @ you.

One place I worked at once upon a time, I wouldn't have let any of those guys ride with me. While most of my acquaintances could bum a ride out of me (especially if they were that trashed), co-workers are a different story.

And from hank's description of this guy, he had every reason to do what he did. We can debate about whether it was a good idea or not to draw, monday morning quarterbacking this out forever.

But what we know is this. Both hank and this guy are still alive, neither of them saw jail time, and this guy doesn't even remember it happening.

There might have been a better way to do this.... but this (what happened) worked. That's good enough for me.

 

[yongxingfreesty]

i try to get along with everyone I work with. talk to a few of them even if I don't like them.

 

[Fred Fuller]

If we've gone far enough to begin covering movie reviews and the ethical considerations of judging people by their tats, I think we're pretty well done here.

lpl