My First and Probably Last Post: An Open Letter

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Riy

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I don't like guns.

I don't have anything against you owning them if you want to, but I don't like them. In fact, I prefer that the people around me don't have guns. To me, guns are a lot like mass media journalists; they are protected, they cannot be effectively regulated despite anyone's best efforts, they are ostensibly necessary to a free state and their supporters enjoy reminding us of the fact, they are everywhere you look, they are loud and obnoxious, they have potential to be part of a greater good but are just as easily a tool to be used for tremendous wrongdoing, and, like a nasty car wreck, people just seem to fixate on them regardless of their views.

When I see a gun, I see Nancy Grace; lots of hype, lots of noise, lots of misinformation, hard to look at. That's just me.

I say this with both conviction and humility... I am a journalist.

I come to your site as a member today after having spent the better part of the last year lurking as a guest only. I've read a tremendous number of posts in that time. And, in that time, I've also developed a tremendous fascination with gun culture. I'm not an "anti" but I will readily admit that I am bordering on it. And before anyone should suggest that I find someone to take me out to the range to "convert" me, let me explain that I grew up in a very pro-gun family and was schooled in the ways of the gun from a very young age. In fact, my heritage is in large part the reason that I find myself here at all (at least until the inevitable point that I am branded a troll and rendered persona non grata) .

My father you see is deceased. He was a decorated veteran, an avid shooter and accomplished marksman, a local NRA leader, a respected community leader, and an apparently well-liked member of this board until his passing. The latter fact determined by my sister and I only upon delving into his personal affairs after his death. Now, as much as some of you might be tempted to offer some form of condolence or other well-meaning expression, please withhold doing so. I have no regret in the fact that my father has passed. Nor does my sister.

The man, despite being revered by virtually all who met him, despite being nearly locally iconic in his role as a neo-classic Texas gentleman rancher, and despite his lifelong devotion to all that is considered sacred by the multitudes of pro-gunners here and elsewhere, was possessed of certain peculiarities of personality that rendered him considerably less beloved in the eyes of those who knew him inside his residence. While I will spare all the burden of a detailed disclosure, let it be known simply that he was not the kind of man that most parents would prefer their children to visit. He was also not the kind of man most parents would wish their daughters to marry. And, despite his public remonstrations regarding gun-control and its' infringement upon responsible, God-fearing American heroes such as himself, he was, as several members of our family might argue, perhaps the last person on the planet that should be afforded the right to own a firearm. I argue that now, as a 38 year-old woman, just as readily as I wish I could have when I was an 11 year-old girl all too familiar with the business ends of my father's various and creatively-employed implements of assault.

Yet, despite this, I am able to separate the tools from the man wielding them. Despite the horrors inflicted by my father, I managed to find and marry a good man, have a fulfilling relationship, raise two daughters of my own to near-adulthood, and cultivate a successful career as a nationally syndicated writer. Indeed, my sister was not so lucky. Nor was our mother.

Still, and again, I don't like guns. I don't like them around me. But as a borderline "anti" I would like to give gun owners everywhere the benefit of the doubt. I try very, very hard in fact to do so. Sometimes it is profoundly difficult for me. You see, I would wager that among the ranks of this board there are no small number of self-appointed defenders of individual right who, like my father, wear but a very thin gloss of veneer over the churning internal stink of hatred and depravity that is their true being. But understand that I am a reasonable and rational woman who knows that at least some of you are truly as good a group of people as you proclaim to be, and, as such I do not wish to color all of you with the same crude and ugly stroke of brush with which I am about to obliterate the last remnants of my father's ill and lurid history. Those, you, deserve at least that much from a borderline "anti" like me.

But tell me...

Why then, given the fact that "I" am capable of giving "you" that benefit; given the fact that I am able to objectively reason through the illogisms that struggle so hard to compel me to not only write you off, but also commit my considerable energy and resources to supporting, with pen and with pocketbook, the cause of those that would see your rights decimated and ground to shards... WHY THEN do you choose to disparage me and others of those like me?

Why do you call us sheep?

Why do you assail the fact that some of us, like me, choose to live in San Francisco?

Why does our concern with the environment and healthcare result in invective?

You see, there are many, many of us out here who all of you consider "antis' who are not at all. There are some of us who, were we to give in to the temptation to slip logic in kind at the butt of your own tendencies to do so, would have damn fine reason to be "antis", would be very good at it, and would represent a considerable benefit to the cause of your nemeses.

We are legion. And our words are mightier than bullets. And we don't run out of ammo.

So, the next time you feel like hurling wisdom at us, the next time your own brush feels heavy and wanting for a target, consider that there are a few of us who haven't yet decided which ring to throw our dogs in. And our dogs are big. And our dogs are hungry.

With regards,

A loud, powerful, logical, well-connected, female and liberal California journalist who really doesn't want to take away your guns, but leans further in that direction every time she sees your lack of personal self-control.
 
Why do you call us sheep?

Because some in the pro-gun community like to feel like they're somehow better than everyone else.

Why do you assail the fact that some of us, like me, choose to live in San Francisco?


Because they've never been to the Bay Area, and think that smalltown USA is the best place to live in the whole world.

Why does our concern with the environment and healthcare result in invective?

I can only speak for myself, but I think it's very important that we protect our enviroment. As for the issue of healthcare, while Universial coverage sounds like a good idea I am not sure how we can afford it without raising taxes.
 
It's a philosophical difference between a belief in individualism and personal accountability as the highest ideal, and those who have an urge to meddle for whatever reason, and the conflict that naturally occurs between the two.

Cesar Beccaria said it thus:

A principal source of errors and injustice are false ideas of utility. For

example: that legislator has false ideas of utility who considers particular

more than general conveniencies, who had rather command the sentiments of

mankind than excite them, and dares say to reason, `Be thou a slave'; who

would sacrifice a thousand real advantages to the fear of an imaginary or

trifling inconvenience; who would deprive men of the use of fire for fear of

their being burnt, and of water for fear of their being drowned; and who

knows of no means of preventing evil but by destroying it.



The laws of this nature are those which forbid to wear arms, disarming those

only who are not disposed to commit the crime which the laws mean to

prevent. Can it be supposed, that those who have the courage to violate the

most sacred laws of humanity, and the most important of the code, will

respect the less considerable and arbitrary injunctions, the violation of

which is so easy, and of so little comparative importance? Does not the

execution of this law deprive the subject of that personal liberty, so dear

to mankind and to the wise legislator? and does it not subject the innocent

to all the disagreeable circumstances that should only fall on the guilty?

It certainly makes the situation of the assaulted worse, and of the

assailants better, and rather encourages than prevents murder, as it

requires less courage to attack unarmed than armed persons.



It is a false idea of utility that would give to a multitude of sensible

beings that symmetry and order which inanimate matter is alone capable of

receiving; to neglect the present, which are the only motives that act with

force and constancy on the multitude for the more distant, whose impressions

are weak and transitory, unless increased by that strength of imagination so

very uncommon among mankind. Finally, that is a false idea of utility which,

sacrificing things to names, separates the public good from that of

individuals.



There is this difference between a state of society and a state of nature,

that a savage does no more mischief to another than is necessary to procure

some benefit to himself: but a man in society is sometimes tempted, from a

fault in the laws, to injure another without any prospect of advantage. The

tyrant inspires his vassals with fear and servility, which rebound upon him

with double force, and are the cause of his torment. Fear, the more private

and domestic it is, the less dangerous is it to him who makes it the

instrument of his happiness; but the more it is public, and the greater

number of people it affects, the greater is the probability that some mad,

desperate, or designing person will seduce others to his party by flattering

expectations; and this will be the more easily accomplished as the danger of

the enterprise will be divided amongst a greater number, because the value

the unhappy set upon their existence is less, as their misery is greater.

Regardless of my feelings, I welcome yours. Thank you for your post and sharing your opinions in a civil manner.
 
We are legion. And our words are mightier than bullets. And we don't run out of ammo.

I don't really think words would be able to defend you against a totalitarian regime gone out of control, or a street punk who is bent on assailing you, or someone you care about.

I have no regret in the fact that my father has passed. Nor does my sister.

I am a Confucian, and I absolutely revere and respect my parents. A good child must never say anything bad towards the ones who gave them life.

So, the next time you feel like hurling wisdom at us, the next time your own brush feels heavy and wanting for a target, consider that there are a few of us who haven't yet decided which ring to throw our dogs in. And our dogs are big. And our dogs are hungry.

We are entitled to our own freedom of speech too. I am not referring to you in particular, but as a journalist, do you know how much of these journalist agencies use cowardly tactics in their reporting, such as the CNN reporter who called the Chinese nation a "nation of swine", shortly after the Sichuan Earthquake? And your mention of "dogs" sound very much like a sinister threat.

Why does our concern with the environment and healthcare result in invective?
We are just as concerned with our environment as much as anybody would. Do you realize how much money our NRA has spent on ecological projects and conservation over the last 50 years? Speaking of healthcare, I am very much for your healthcare policies too. However, it bothers me that many totalitarian and murderous regimes throughout the twentieth century have used "universal healthcare" to lure people?

A loud, powerful, logical, well-connected, female and liberal California journalist who really doesn't want to take away your guns, but leans further in that direction every time she sees your lack of personal self-control.
First of all, you won't be able to take away our guns without committing the act of constitutional treason, and treason is a serious crime. Second of all, we, law abiding gun owners never posed a threat to you, ever. Over here on THR, we have the best self control and respect of any Internet forum, so I don't understand why you harbor so much hatred towards us, and why, instead of embracing true Confucian ideals of a good and caring child, speak against your own father with such animosity?

Why do you call us sheep?

Why do you assail the fact that some of us, like me, choose to live in San Francisco?

We refer to some hardcore antis as "sheep", because they refuse to protect themselves against danger, and that they would prefer having mercy on the criminals who brutalized them instead of seeking justice. Worst of all, they refuse to learn how to defend themselves against the dangers they will face in daily life.

As for San Francisco, we have nothing against the people or the city. However, we do believe that the governments of both San Francisco and California have violated many constitutional laws by depriving their citizens from being able to own a gun, and/or depriving their citizens of the right to defend themselves, their loved ones, or their property in any circumstance.

raise two daughters of my own to near-adulthood
In Confucian ideology, there is also the notion of karma. The fact that you insulted your father with such viciousness will have negative impacts against your overall future. Therefore, in the future, if your children turn against you, treat you brutally in your old age, or refuse to care for you when you are suffering from illness, please be aware that the powers of the spirits and gods in the higher realms are paying you back for the cruelty that you have exhibited against your own parent. Every Lunar New Year, me and my family pray to our ancestors, burn incense, visit the local temple, and offer them gifts of food and wine to display our enduring kindness and respect to the spirits of our deceased loved ones, since they will always live in our hearts. Please be kind to your family, especially your parents, if you want their everlasting protection and blessing.
 
I am sorry for what happened with your father - no one deserves that, ever.

I, too, am a liberal. An anti-war, Democrat, pro-gay marriage, pro-universal-healthcare, pro-environment, Buddhist flaming liberal that knows that with people like our current administration in power, liberals like me cannot afford to be unarmed. I love the Dead. I used to have dreads, and own several tie-dye t-shirts.

I used to be an anti, then I realized that gun control was against everything that I held myself to be as a liberal. I hold a concealed carry permit. I participate in combat shooting matches. I don't own many guns, but I do shoot several thousand rounds a year target shooting, training, and for fun. I would like to buy a PKM general purpose machinegun, for no other reason than that it would be fun.

Just like in other communities, there are those of our membership that do and say unbecoming things. I do not hold their views. One might as well say that "a person did or said something that I find objectionable, therefore all people are bad." Gun owners are so diverse that it's pointless to stereotype us. I shoot with several women, a few Wiccans, gay men, lesbians, one transgendered person, three Buddhists, several atheists, a couple Democrats, and one Christian Republican.

I do give you the benefit of the doubt, every time. Tolerance of all peoples' way of life, no matter how distasteful I find it, is the code of this gun owner.

You won't be banned, of course. Your introduction was quite civil, and if you ever return to the discussion, you will be welcomed. THR is quite progressive and tolerant, you'll find.

Namaste.
 
Quote:
I have no regret in the fact that my father has passed. Nor does my sister.

I am a Confucian, and I absolutely revere and respect my parents. A good child must never say anything bad towards the ones who gave them life.

TOTALLY TOTALLY TOTALLY OUT OF LINE this is not the place to argue about religion obviously something deeper is going on her as far as the jurnalist's dislike towards her parent
 
"Why does our concern with the environment and healthcare result in invective?"

Apparently I can't own a gun and have concern for healthcare and the environment.
Why are you making broad sweeping generalizations about gun-owners?
 
About the environment and health care, and probably most other 'liberal' hot issues, it's not that I am against those things. Certainly I would like to protect the environment and pollute less and I appreciate for everyone to have the health care they need. However I object to the Federal Government assuming control of these issues and I am in favor of freedom.

I am certain I don't speak even for the majority on this board since I know I don't fit in and likely never will. But I support the Constitution and liberty. Horrible, evil people with bad judgment can vote, write, speak out, defend themselves from prosecution, own property and do all sorts of things in a free country just the same as good people. The same goes for keeping and bearing arms.

It is commonly said that you cannot legislate morality. The idea of charitably providing for someone else's health care or denying one's self the full use of his own property in favor of saving the environment are excellent moral ideals. But they are not subject to legislation or government interference. The same is true for any other moral issue.
 
Why do you call us sheep?

Because some in the pro-gun community like to feel like they're somehow better than everyone else.

This isn't true and isn't limited to the gun community, the term is used to describe people who prefer to live in fantasy or denial rather than reality. They are the people who accept information without questioning it because it is more comfortable.

There is nothing morally wrong with being a sheep, lots of people are, some are too busy to educate themselves about the topics, some have no interest in doing so, a few are biased and only want information that supports their view.
 
Why then, given the fact that "I" am capable of giving "you" that benefit; given the fact that I am able to objectively reason through the illogisms that struggle so hard to compel me to not only write you off, but also commit my considerable energy and resources to supporting, with pen and with pocketbook, the cause of those that would see your rights decimated and ground to shards... WHY THEN do you choose to disparage me and others of those like me?

If you'd disarm me, please tell me what "benefit" it is you're giving me?


Why do you call us sheep?

Sheep depend upon sheepdogs and shepherds to protect them.


Why do you assail the fact that some of us, like me, choose to live in San Francisco?

Live where you please. You're truly stretching, now.


Why does our concern with the environment and healthcare result in invective?

Liberal causes sometimes have that effect. Surely you're intelligent enough to realize that?
 
Um, your father's guns didn't make him molest/assault/murder or whatever else he did to you and your sisters/mother.

Bad men can kill/hurt others with any multitude of weapons or just their bare hands.

I have to echo Jakemccoy: Get over it.

Also, we disparage you because you are willing to use "pen and pocketbook" to deprive us of freedoms even you recognize as rights. How progressive of you and your friends.

/We are legion too, NRA 4 million dues paying members. Plus, we have enough bullets not to worry too much about running out of ammo. Civil liberties are worth fighting for.
 
With regards,

A loud, powerful, logical, well-connected, female and liberal California journalist who really doesn't want to take away your guns, but leans further in that direction every time she sees your lack of personal self-control.


What does your view of my personal self-control have to do with my right to defend myself and my family?
 
...You see, I would wager that among the ranks of this board there are no small number of self-appointed defenders of individual right who, like my father, wear but a very thin gloss of veneer over the churning internal stink of hatred and depravity that is their true being. But understand that I am a reasonable and rational woman who knows that at least some of you are truly as good a group of people as you proclaim to be...

So a majority of us are depraved hatemongers, and a few of us are actually good people? This is reasonable and rational?

I believe the psychological term is 'transference'. You are transferring the experience from your father:

Despite the horrors inflicted by my father...
just as readily as I wish I could have when I was an 11 year-old girl all too familiar with the business ends of my father's various and creatively-employed implements of assault.

irrationally onto a majority of others whose only association with him is that they both owned firearms.
 
My First and Probably Last Post: An Open Letter
If you feel as though you should address us and ask us questions, shouldn't you have the coutesy to stick around and talk about your beliefs? I have no problem having an intelligent discussion with people with different view points but it seems you're interested in lecturing to us more than talking with us. It is both rude and shows your disinterest in a real discussion.

I would wager that among the ranks of this board there are no small number of self-appointed defenders of individual right who, like my father, wear but a very thin gloss of veneer over the churning internal stink of hatred and depravity that is their true being.
You're probably quite right. There's 70,000 members here. Do you really think you can get any group of 70,000 people together and have them all be good wonderful people?

We're not all your father. If you'd like to have a real discussion many of us here would be more than happy to engage you. I've spent hours trading civil emails with gun control proponents, both individuals and members of gun control groups. At least be civil and willing to talk with us and not just threaten people with how powerful and well connected you are. If you've found yourself to be the recipient of disparaging remarks, perhaps your attitude toward others is to blame.

If you are interested in displaying what a logical person you are, could you show me some statistics that illustrate gun control laws being effective? For a person of logic you seem to be willing to make a decision on a bad experience in life and your imagination. That just isn't logical behavior I'm afraid.
 
Thanks you for your candor and I appreciate your willingness to come here and explain what some of us are trying to do. Not all of us are SOBs behind closed doors and I wish that we could somehow correct what has been done in the name of rights.

I hope that you will find that many of us are concerned about our environment and not necessarily healthcare but true health provisions(good ole doctoring).


We tend to call those who will not defend themselves a sheep because we many times do not understand why someone will not stand up against wrongdoers and expose them for what they are. We prefer to be forthright and outspoken towards what is right and stand for those who need help. Many times those who do not need help but require that it be given to them is where I will find that they need to be derided and shown the door.
Sorry to see you go, you could have been a voice among us that would give us a sounding board and helped us to grow in understanding and we could have helped work out such problem like you father.

Good bye and God bless
b
 
WHY THEN do you choose to disparage me and others of those like me?

Why do you call us sheep?

Why do you assail the fact that some of us, like me, choose to live in San Francisco?

Why does our concern with the environment and healthcare result in invective?

With all respect, you paint us with too wide a brush. None of the above statements apply to me. It is wrong to assume that all people who have guns are of the same mind. Do all people who drive Fords get "painted" the same? Do all people who's favorite color is red get "painted" with the same brush? Do you know how many people who are gay have guns? Gunowners are far from being alike in thoughts and actions. I am truly sorry for the way your father treated you, but because he owned guns is no more reason to be anti gun and anti gun owner than to be anti to whatever brand of shoes he wore.
 
Madam,

I believe you have made some errors.

understand that I am a reasonable and rational woman who knows that at least some of you are truly as good a group of people as you proclaim to be

I don't proclaim to be a good person. I wish to victimize no-one, but I would be reluctant to claim any place on the moral continuum.

May I distill the essence of your epistle? You're a person, and don't rouse you needlessly. Great. So, you're a person like everyone else. Regards.

John Shirley
 
We are legion. And our words are mightier than bullets. And we don't run out of ammo.

So, the next time you feel like hurling wisdom at us, the next time your own brush feels heavy and wanting for a target, consider that there are a few of us who haven't yet decided which ring to throw our dogs in. And our dogs are big. And our dogs are hungry.

Hmm.... Sounds an awful lot like a threat, to me. And making threats is something that most journalists would use to beat gun owners over the head with.


So what exactly is you purpose in coming here, anyway? Do you really believe you speak for all journalists... or anyone else except for yourself?



J.C.
 
It honestly sounds like you are an anti already and are trying to show everyone that you "took the high ground" while writing this piece...it's like most of the politicians that say, "I support the 2nd ammendment BUT..." and after the but always follows something that totally goes against the second ammendment.

Here you're saying, I'm not an anti...BUT....

Why sheep? Because sheep follow the crowd and are defenseless...

Why SF? Because CA is very anti as a whole...

Why does your concern with environmental....? This was a POOR example. Hunters and hunting programs give MUCH more to the environment than the standard person. Think about it...what would a hunter hunt if all the game was gone?
 
People here are the same as people everywhere. We're all different, and our opinions are all across the spectrum. Sounds like prejudice is alive and well in 'Frisco.
 
Why do you call us sheep?

Because calling someone a name is easier than thinking.

Unfortunately that behavior is endemic on THR.

See, when when someone calls you a sheep on THR, that person is secretly calling himself a wolf, and that's really a thrilling image.

Pretty much of a herd mentality on THR, but there are occasional flashes of intelligence which make the board worth reading.

For gun rights (but not an idiot),

Mike
 
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