My First and Probably Last Post: An Open Letter

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"Concern with the environment" or anti-human zealotry? I'm concerned with the environment, but, like Patrick Moore, one of the founders of Greenpeace, I have serious concerns about modern environmentalism. I have a bachelor's degree from a good school, in evolutionary biology, FWIW.

If you have a problem with people who don't much care for San Franciscans, well, perhaps you can remind San Franciscans that people who live outside the Bay Area are not merely troglodytes or their servants when they go on vacation. And you know as well as I do that, in "The City", you'll have plenty of opportunities to do this. Daily. You have a problem with people who are the subjects of the bigotry of your own subculture, not much liking you and your compatriots? Think about this for a minute...

People from the "flyover states" not liking San Franciscans much is akin to African-Americans having little good to say about Klansmen. I'm sure that there are some people in the Klan who are nice enough when you get to know them, but why would someone want to?

See "Smug Alert", Episode 1002 of South Park, for a funny, yet all-too-accurate satire of San Francisco culture. Do you think that your conversations over Cabernet are such a big secret to people in, say, New Mexico?
 
Please don't lock this thread. We will use this as an example of how we present our own beliefs and attitudes to those who disagree with us, and how we also sympathize with their beliefs as well.

People, this is a time when we must exhibit our civility and education to the maximum. We must use this as a method of proving our benevolent presence and intentions.

Please be considerate, and take the High Road.
 
Why then, given the fact that "I" am capable of giving "you" that benefit...WHY THEN do you choose to disparage me and others of those like me?
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If you give me the benefit of the doubt I'm more than happy to do the same for you. I'm a real "live and let live, now leave me the heck alone" kind of guy. Most of us are. As for the rest, don't take it personaly; you'll sleep better. It sounds like you've got enough on your mind already.
I wish you peace.
 
Sorry about your father and the things that happened in your life but perhaps you should seek your solice, your answers, and your therapy elsewhere.
What you are really looking for is probably not here.
 
lol, I would say most people who own guns show far more self control then idiots who have knee jerk reactions when ever something "bad" happens.

I honestly couldn't care less what you do, as long as it doesn't impact me. The thing is people like Nancy Pelosi feel a need to push their views on everyone else.

I don't hunt, I don't enjoy killing but I wouldn't hesitate to if my existence or way of life was threatened.

Do what ever you want, but don't stop me from doing something thats has NO effect on you.
 
See, when when someone calls you a sheep on THR, that person is secretly calling himself a wolf, and that's really a thrilling image.
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Well said. I may use that as a sig line for a while.
 
Riy said:
Still, and again, I don't like guns. I don't like them around me. But as a borderline "anti" I would like to give gun owners everywhere the benefit of the doubt. I try very, very hard in fact to do so. Sometimes it is profoundly difficult for me. You see, I would wager that among the ranks of this board there are no small number of self-appointed defenders of individual right who, like my father, wear but a very thin gloss of veneer over the churning internal stink of hatred and depravity that is their true being. But understand that I am a reasonable and rational woman who knows that at least some of you are truly as good a group of people as you proclaim to be, and, as such I do not wish to color all of you with the same crude and ugly stroke of brush with which I am about to obliterate the last remnants of my father's ill and lurid history. Those, you, deserve at least that much from a borderline "anti" like me.
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I'm sorry for whatever abuse you incurred at the hands of your father, but for you to extrapolate from your personal and individual experience that significant numbers of us who understand and respect the 2nd Amendment are as "depraved" as you say your father was is a highly subjective and irrational statement, totally at odds with your description of yourself as "a reasonable and rational woman."

Riy said:
A loud, powerful, logical, well-connected, female and liberal California journalist who really doesn't want to take away your guns, but leans further in that direction every time she sees your lack of personal self-control.
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Please expound on specifics of when and where you have seen any lack of personal self-control on the part of me or any other member of this site. You are again extrapolating. I do not believe you have "seen" any evidence of lack of self-control by anyone on this forum. However, you HAVE made up your mind that those who are "pro-gun" are lacking in self-control, and thus you resort to mindlessly tarring us all with the broad brush of your own personal baggage.
 
I would also submit that you not suffer hubris, ma'am. Circulation of all major newspapers are down across the board. Seems like people like going to primary sources rather than mainstream sources nowadays.

Secondly, we judge people by their words here, not by their self-described credentials. I'm sure you understand.

Some people are tolerant, others are not, like JoseM. Doesn't mean that I judge others based on his actions.
 
Yes, it was a joke, but I think it's humorous just because it's the truth and ironic because the OP originally painted the gun community with a broad brush so I did it back.
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I understand, Jose, but this is a very critical time. Non-invasive humor is welcome sometimes, but this is a very important thread. This is our PRESENTATION STAGE. We must stand together, and present ourselves to the world with utmost dedication and civility.
 
Riy- For a journalist your grammar leaves something to be desired.

You don't like guns? Fine, I don't like leaf blowers. So what?

Your recitation comes across as elitist and self-serving. Hmmm... maybe you are a journalist, after all.
 
Guns area reality. No matter how hard you try, Pandora's box has been opened. I would think that the world would perhaps be a better place without guns, but only if the government would turn theirs in first. Otherwise, it would be un-American to let the ruling authority have the upper hand.

The principles of this country are that the citizens are the ones that do the ruling, through voting and running for office. Therefore, as I'm sure you have thought through before, if things go out of hand, their is a backup plan. Guns are a safeguard.

If you, personally don't want to own one, then you have that right. However, I would choose to venture a guess that you don't want those around you to have them because you don't trust them. I wonder how you must feel driving down the street, putting trust that your fellow drivers to not kill you.

Society requires it's citizens to put their trust in each other. It is what holds us together. Without it, which is what I fear you lack, a society will fall apart.
 
I understand, Jose, but this is a very critical time. Non-invasive humor is welcome sometimes, but this is a very important thread. This is our PRESENTATION STAGE. We must stand together, and present ourselves to the world with utmost dedication and civility.
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Rachen, relax. This is a public forum. Anyone could have signed up and posted this thread we don't know if it's serious or not and this thread won't end up in the news.
JoseM didn't state anything other than facts. So what if the facts are humorous?
 
Why do you call us sheep?
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For one simple reason. Most antis..or simply the people who "don't like guns" and don't want to be around them, are generally unwilling and/or unable...either by reason of personal fortitude or simply lack of the tools, to meet a deadly force directed at them or members of their families, but...are perfectly willing to expect someone else to come to their rescue, and risk their own lives in so doing.

This is what sheep do. They graze...blissfully ignorant of the wolf in the treeline...until he singles one of them out for the kill. Then, they bleat helplessly, hoping that the sheepdog will come and save the rest of them from the wolf...even though it's too late for the sheepdog to save the sacrificial lamb.

Never mind that the poor sheepdog may be grievously injured or killed while doing his job. Never mind that, in most instances...all the dog can do is give fruitless chase...and then return to the terrified, bleating flock so that the wolf can't grab another one...for a while.

So...Why do we call you sheep? Mainly because we can't fathom the notion that it's better to hope that the dog is close by when the wolf strikes than to take the necesary steps to keep the wolf at bay...just in case he's not.

Because we simply can't understand the mindset of the sheep...who often don't believe that the wolf is a real threat...that he stalks relentlessly...watching and waiting...until he can cut the weakest from the herd and have his way.

We can't cozy up with the idea that our safety and well-being is someone else's responsibility. We like being self-sufficient, I suppose.
We're funny that way.

Did you know that the police are under no legal obligation to protect anybody as an individual? It's true. The SCOTUS ruled on that issue a long time ago.

The job of the policeman is to enforce the law and maintain public order. Period. Your safety and security is your responsibility, and yours alone...no matter what your community leaders have led you to believe. The police are not bound to come to your rescue...and they most often arrive too late to effect a rescue anyway...unless you're very lucky.

But, don't worry. The chances that it will be you the next time are actually pretty slim. But...What will you do if Canis Lupus draws your number tomorrow, or next week...or next month? Call 911 and hope for the best...or beg for mercy? Remember that when seconds count...the police are only minutes away.

We're very sorry for your bad experiences with your father. It's apparently had a deep and lasting effect on you. I'd be willing to bet that if you could hear all the horror stories here on the subject of toxic parents...you wouldn't feel so alone. I could tell you a few myself...but that's another matter.
 
Too Bad.

Hey There:
While it sounds as if you had an abusive father and that is a bad thing no matter when it took place. The fact is he likely used other things to show off his power and authority. You alone would know that list. The gun may be just one of these items. But yet the one being blamed. And yes we have both sides in this world. Good and bad. If all the good guys had no guns, well then only the bad guys would have them. Try to imagine that kind of abuse.

Their is only one reason any anti would want gun owners disarmed. To complete their power structure. Once in place the abuse would run rampid.
Your freedom to post your veiws would not have been legal. But because we still have these wicked guns that has not happened .
One defining character of the word force is "to hold at bay", this what our right to keep and bare arms has helped us do. Keep at bay all the anti's that would strip us of "ALL" our freedoms, not just the right to keep and bare arms.
 
Brady still have that intern thing open could be a troll looking for a big break,


I figure the anti's go to this place and Arfcom looking for statements to use against us.
 
I are not a journalist. I are a country bumpkin.
A loud, powerful, logical, well-connected, female and liberal California journalist who really doesn't want to take away your guns, but leans further in that direction every time she sees your lack of personal self-control.
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I am neither loud, nor necessarily well-connected. But I am logical, which leads me to these questions...
Do you go to, say Quilting forums & tell them how much you don't like quilts? Or visit a Harley-Davidson website and spout about biker's lack of personal self control? (By the way, what's the difference between personal self-control & just plain, old, regular self-control?).

Tell ya' what...I'll give you EVERY right to like or dislike anything you please. You can lean to any degree, in any direction, on any issue. In fact, I encourage you to do just that. But, in my opinion, your position on wanting (or NOT wanting) to "take away your guns" hints that you've taken the "powerful" part of your self-description just a little too seriously. The issues that you have with guns are internal to you & have nothing to do with my gun ownership, my actions or my opinions! Show me just one culture, at any time in recorded history, in any spot on the globe where the individuals making-up the population were made more safe & secure by the removal of their ability to defend themselves...and I'll weld all my firearms into an art object & join you for their burial at sea.
 
Riy said:
We are legion. And our words are mightier than bullets. And we don't run out of ammo.
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Words instead of bullets? Hmmm. I wonder how effective this tactic would be against terrorists bent on destroying Americans and the great country we live in?

-or against someone bent on harming you or your family?
 
Ma'am, your logic states that because your father was a gun owner and was also abusive, others who own guns must also be abusive.


Jack Unterweger was a journalist, sexual sadist, serial killer, and a pedophile.

You are a journalist. Apply your own logic.


You won't reconsider anything you've said, and you've clearly already made up your mind about gun owners. My guess is you made this post in order to reinforce your preconceived notions about gun enthusiasts.

However, I'd encourage you to embrace your liberal values, and not discriminate against a group as a whole, because of a few bad apples.
 
Just my honest opinion, but...

while I can understand what you may have gone through at the hands of your father, aren't you still tending to paint the gun owning society with that same brush you used for him? While he may not have been the father or husband that he should have been, the fact that he was a gun owner isn't what made him a bad person.
There are many of us who own guns, and enjoy them as a sport, as well as using them for hunting. We are made up of all types of people, good, bad, indifferent. Just the mere fact that we all might enjoy shooting doesn't make us bad.
Now, as for your question on the sheep comment, well, the sheep referred to, in my book, are the people who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions, who want the government to hand them everything, with no work on their part. These are the people who expect me to stand back while they rob me of what I have worked hard to earn and keep. I'm sorry, I just would rather be a supporter of the 2nd amendment, which guarantees my rights in this country. You are not the only one who has suffered at the hands of, shall we say, bad example? You have to realize that people are what make up this world, and there will be bad apples in every bushel, basket, whatever. You just have to keep an open mind and not label everyone. I try to keep my mouth shut most of the time, and take people for what they truly are, not what they believe in, or practice, etc. I won't put you down because you don't believe in owning a gun, and I hope that you return the favor by not scoffing at me for believing in my right to do so.
And, yes, I'm a woman too, and I practice shooting, enjoy it tremendously and hope I never have to use one. But I intend to be at least well educated in their use.
 
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