my problem with pumps. any semi auto shotgun hd suggestions?

[MCgunner]

You may benifit by a Coach gun for HD.

I love my coach gun, but it has to be gotten used to, also. It has extractors. The other day, I shot a duck off the tank out back. I broke open the gun, yanked out the shell, and reloaded, never taking my eyes off the duck that had fallen. I feel I'm in a zen with it, now.

Pumps, just like any firearm, require lots of practice. I've hunted with pumps my entire life, mostly waterfowl and some doves. Pumping the gun is just an autonomic reflex for me. I do it without realizing I did it. When I go out with my auto, I often find myself yanking the fore stock on the first or second round until I realize what I'm doing.

 

[AI&P Tactical]

My Comment on the Remington Gas Shotguns was Nonsense? This shows you may not have a complete understanding of the Remington gas shotgun. I do, I am Factory certified on the 11-87 Police. Are you? What is your qualification to state that what I say about this weapon is nonsense? Do you own and 11-87P? I

Your comment about firing a shotgun only from the shoulder shows some lacking about how a combat shotgun is deployed in a fight. When you start taking fire you move to cover and you should be putting lead on the threat as you are moving. The 11-87 is not reliable enough to do that while you are in movement. They are not reliable enough to fire over or around cover either. This was proved time and again when trying to provide support fire around or over barricades. We went back to the 870 and never looked back. As for my qualifications to speak on this issue, I was an HRT member, latter a team Leader and latter I formed and Trained a Regional team. I was loaned to the Florida Hwy Patrol to Train their SRT. I am by no means the most qualified on this forum to address this but know enough to speak on the topic.

A few years ago my Daughter was home and took my 11-87P out to shoot while I was working in the shop. I heard a bang, then nothing. Another bang, then nothing. She came in the shop to tell me something was wrong with the weapon. I went out back and fired 6 round with no issue. I then had her fire and it would not cycle. The reason was simple. She is 5'2" and 122 lbs and it was rocking her back and would cycle. I showed her how to move here left leg out more and to learn in to the weapon bracing on her right rear leg. It was better but still an occassional failure to lock up. She was just to light to handle this weapon. It was not a shooter issue as she (at that time) was Sargeant in the USMC and wearing an Experts Badge.

At the begining of every Factory Class on the 11-87P the Instuctors ask if anyone uses the 11-87P in their Department. I have yet to see a hand go up. There is a reason departments don't use them and I have stated why.

I do have a trick for making mine more reliable. I only use 2 3/4" magnum loads in it. That helps but not enough for me to trust it in a fight. Why should I when they make the 870 which cycles every time.

I am not trying to attack you in anyway. I am simply addressing your post as having mis-information and this is a very popular forum and reads should not be subject to untrue information. The want the truth about weapons and topics concerning weapons.

However, hope looms ahead as the R12 should be available in the LE line up soon and it is one serious fighting shotgun.

 

[200Apples]

.

Your comment about firing a shotgun only from the shoulder shows some lacking about how a combat shotgun is deployed in a fight. When you start taking fire you move to cover and you should be putting lead on the threat as you are moving. The 11-87 is not reliable enough to do that while you are in movement. They are not reliable enough to fire over or around cover either. This was proved time and again when trying to provide support fire around or over barricades.

JD, thanks for your post. I had (here in CA) an 11-87 in the 10-day jail... it's just a wicked shotgun for it's potential firepower, it's roundcount... but I instead put that year-end money on a nice, old Winchester '94. I'm glad I didn't get the 11-87 Police... and I can now look forward to the introduction of the R12.

Here is one of my 12 ga. 870s that J.D. helped me out with. It's my HD gun, pictured below the wife's HD weapon of choice, an 1100 LT-20 [gauge] Special, fitted w/ a 20" slug barrel:



Do not discount a round or four of 20-gauge, 20-pellets-O-.25" dia lead balls for home defense!

 

[ugaarguy]

Folks, please listen to / carefully read what AI&P is posting. He may come off a bit gruff at times, and his tone was even a bit abrasive to me at first when I started this moderator gig. However, I've learned from reading his posts that he truly does care. His tone reflects the gravity of much of what we discuss here, and that is the use of the fighting shotgun to defend one's life. On that topic, he is a wealth of knowledge. He's trying to keep you alive, Lord forbid you're ever find yourself in such circumstance.

As for my qualifications to speak on this issue, I was an HRT member, latter a team Leader and latter I formed and Trained a Regional team. I was loaned to the Florida Hwy Patrol to Train their SRT. I am by no means the most qualified on this forum to address this but know enough to speak on the topic.

I appreciate your modesty AI&P, but you're actually one of the most qualified folks here.

A few years ago my Daughter was home and took my 11-87P out to shoot while I was working in the shop. ...
... It was not a shooter issue as she (at that time) was Sargeant in the USMC and wearing an Experts Badge.

You must be incredibly proud of her.

 

[mljdeckard]

I have certainly HEARD of short-stroking. I just have never once, in the many thousands of rounds I have cranked through mine, done it. And I'm not a ninja by anyone's definition.

 

[Virginian]

I still say an 1100 does not have to be backed up to cycle. I would be very curious as to why you think it does need to be, because in addition to much experience, I can present a very good technical case why it should not need it.

 

[conrad427]

I guess i would lean towards a recoil operated shotgun if i wanted an auto. I am not sure if any would be in your price range. I have an M2 that i consider to be almost as reliable as my 870's, just a squirt of wd-40 and i wont have to clean it for another 1000 rounds. Ease of operation is nowhere near as good as my 870, i dont care for the levers and buttons to make it work. The only auto 5 i was around was actually quite finicky about what it liked to cycle.
I would tend to agree that training and practice is essential regardless of what action type you choose.

 

[cdb1]

Weatherby has a nice HD semi-auto that I like which won't break the bank.

 

[Armored farmer]

I would prescribe 250pr of doubles, or 5 rounds of sporting clays before you give up on that pump-gun. That will do more good than all the good advice given on THR. There is a good amount of bs to wade through in this thread. Becoming intimately familiar and confident with your gun will cure the short-stroking, and other issues. I almost guarantee that time and money spent at the trap/sporting clays range will be rewarding and time and money well spent.
I don't care what gun you want but an 870 is one of the most loved and trusted guns of all time.

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

I have no idea on how the Remington gas operated guns work as I don't own one, but not all gas operated semi-auto shotguns are created equal. I can attest that an FN SLP will cycle off the shoulder held along side your waist and in any orientation including upside down.

I've tested it with a variety of loads, and it will cycle 1-oz and heavier loads in any position you want to shoot it. It absolutely does not need to be held on your shoulder to work. To the OP - if you can find a used SLP, you won't be disappointed.

 

[Clippers]

There it is again: The idea that a pump is better than an auto because a pump makes "The racking sound" and an auto doesn't.

That's ridiculous.

Click on the pic and watch the video- the pump and the auto sound the same.

In my defense, I have shot pump shotguns for 30 years, its what I prefer and recommend. The reference to the racking sound was meant in a joking, not too serious way. The shotgun I keep in my bedroom is loaded and ready, no racking necessary.

 

[Pyzon]

In my experience, gas operated shotguns require more care and cleaning to keep them running trouble free. Pumps pretty much work if you stroke them correctly.

I prefer pumps, and the only time I have had stroking problems is when I am hunting in extremely cold weather that causes me to wear far heavier clothing than typical, like a big polar insulated Carhartt coat or coveralls, as it makes the shoulder and arms shorter. (Maybe I should adjust the length of pull/stock to fit that scenario ?)

Either way you go, practice will insure good and quick results in the worst of situations, like when an extra second to figure out why things are way too quiet is a horrible thing.

 

[frank c]

You may benifit by a Coach gun for HD. The Remington 1100 or 11-87 is unfit for fighting as they have to be fired from a solid shoulder to cycle. The Versa Max does not have these issues but the shortest barrel for that at this time is 22".

H.mm the Remington 1100 & 1187 are gas operated correct?

 

[HexHead]

A year or so ago, American Rifleman ran an article praising the Mossberg SA-20 Tactical as a great HD weapon. It's in your $500-600 budget. They're a very nice weapon.

 

[Skribs]

While my pump gun was temporarily out of commission I bought a Mossberg 930 SPX. The thing is great! If you are getting a shotgun with a conventional stock, I would strongly recommend it. If you want a pistol grip+stock, the safety gets hard to reach.

As for short shucking it - practice with snap caps. I have short shucked my SuperNova a few times, but lately I've had no issues with it.

 

[strambo]

I know this is the Shotgun sub-forum and I have an 870 set up for HD.

But since HD is the OPs only concern...for the price if a bet-your-life on it reliable semi-auto shotgun, you could also be considering a good quality AR15. It has many advantages over a SG in a HD environment (as have been discussed ad nauseum before).