xbox360
member
I am looking to buy a ak 47, Please give your advice of your ak any problems pros/cons of it/make/model Thanks.
need ADVICE from AK 47 OWNERS
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my favorite ak is an arsenal classic 7.62x39.
cons are the sights blow, it is nowhere near as accurate as my ar, no lightweight scope options exist, and the pros are it is light weight, has never ever missed a beat, it feels good with the warsaw stock and all.
not much to say about ak's
cons are the sights blow, it is nowhere near as accurate as my ar, no lightweight scope options exist, and the pros are it is light weight, has never ever missed a beat, it feels good with the warsaw stock and all.
not much to say about ak's
harmon rabb
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the iron sights suck and it has far more kick than an AR.
look into a sig 556. it's kind of an ar/ak hybrid that shoots 5.56, which is far easier to find nowadays than 7.62x39.
look into a sig 556. it's kind of an ar/ak hybrid that shoots 5.56, which is far easier to find nowadays than 7.62x39.
Dr. Unclear
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AK47 - Romanian SAR1
Most of the AKs we get in the states are Romanian imports. They are all decent rifles, but the SAR-1 model made before 2002 apparently has slightly better construction. I read this on the net, so take it fwiw. I have a SAR-1 and it has never jammed on me once.
AK actions are legendary for their reliability in good or bad conditions. That's why you see them in every war everywhere in the world. I'd take a simple AK over most any modern AR varient (including the Sig 556). I also like the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm over the .223. Up until recently the cost of 7.62x39 was well below that of 223, but that's getting to be less of a reason to buy an AK these days.
Just my $0.02!
Most of the AKs we get in the states are Romanian imports. They are all decent rifles, but the SAR-1 model made before 2002 apparently has slightly better construction. I read this on the net, so take it fwiw. I have a SAR-1 and it has never jammed on me once.
AK actions are legendary for their reliability in good or bad conditions. That's why you see them in every war everywhere in the world. I'd take a simple AK over most any modern AR varient (including the Sig 556). I also like the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm over the .223. Up until recently the cost of 7.62x39 was well below that of 223, but that's getting to be less of a reason to buy an AK these days.
Just my $0.02!
I know there are good Romanian ak's out there. I bought 2 new Romamians and had problems with both. My vote goes to the Norinco Mak90. I've owned several over the years and had zero problems out of all of them. If you buy a Romanian try to find one you can shoot before you buy. Like I said there are good ones out there but there are a lot of bad mixed in with them from what I've heard and seen.
ByAnyMeans
Member
Most any AK is a good AK. Romanian Wasr is your cheapest option but the finish is usually the worst. The more you pay for a nicer brand the better the finish will be. Some say the accuracy also increase but I have not found this to be the case. I would check for cant of front sight and gas block especially if a Wasr. This sight will give you advice on identifying and fixing the issues as well as other advice which is usable to any AK.
http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/whyromanian.htm
Personally, I have a converted Saiga and love it. As with most AK's (although not all agree it should be counted as an AK variant) I have shot it gives 3 in groups when shot stabilized most others are 4 inches. It has a side mount for optics which makes it even better with a red-dot. The Wasr also has the side mount and would benefit from an optic of some sort. I feel all AK's do but with the side mount and a quick release base it allows you to transition back to iron sights in a second.
Here is a Saiga which needs a fire control group and feed ramp which you can do yourself if your handy and a Wasr (fixed, thank you Malix)
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127527859
or
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127540324
you can easily redo the rifles wood and use gunkote on the metal if it matters to you. I have seen some that turned out beautifully. Others treat it as the biker chick it is intended to be.
http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/whyromanian.htm
Personally, I have a converted Saiga and love it. As with most AK's (although not all agree it should be counted as an AK variant) I have shot it gives 3 in groups when shot stabilized most others are 4 inches. It has a side mount for optics which makes it even better with a red-dot. The Wasr also has the side mount and would benefit from an optic of some sort. I feel all AK's do but with the side mount and a quick release base it allows you to transition back to iron sights in a second.
Here is a Saiga which needs a fire control group and feed ramp which you can do yourself if your handy and a Wasr (fixed, thank you Malix)
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127527859
or
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127540324
you can easily redo the rifles wood and use gunkote on the metal if it matters to you. I have seen some that turned out beautifully. Others treat it as the biker chick it is intended to be.
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malix
Member
Not to be a nit-picker, but that Saiga has not been converted.
They have added a pistol grip to it, but in order to do a conversion you need to move the FCG forward and modify it to use standard AK mags.
cibach
Member
I love my two yugo's
I don't own an AK variant so feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt but:
If I were to go after one, I'd go for a saiga or an Arsenal Arms converted saiga.
The only negative I can think of is that they're not gonna shoot sub MoA groups at range. But it's a proven design. I plan to own one eventually.
If I were to go after one, I'd go for a saiga or an Arsenal Arms converted saiga.
The only negative I can think of is that they're not gonna shoot sub MoA groups at range. But it's a proven design. I plan to own one eventually.
Acera
Member
I have a yugo. I don't care to shoot it that much because I am not a big fan of that style of rifle.
However, new shooters love it. If you are introducing people to the shooting sports, you should let them take a turn with it. It is more popular that the M1, M1A, lever guns, and just about everything that is not an AR with the crowd I run with.
It is a very good conversation piece, and should be a part of any military rifle collection.
However, new shooters love it. If you are introducing people to the shooting sports, you should let them take a turn with it. It is more popular that the M1, M1A, lever guns, and just about everything that is not an AR with the crowd I run with.
It is a very good conversation piece, and should be a part of any military rifle collection.
AKElroy
Member
I have an Armory USA (they are out of business now); These were American made & a terrific value. If you can fnd one used at a reasonable price, I would jump. Mine was NIB for around $400.00, 3 years ago. Things have definitely changed--
LoganDub8388
Member
go to tacticalgunarmory.com and go to CIA rifles...these are romanian ak's for right at 400 bones, which in my opinion is a freaking deal, its actually cheaper than what i bought mine for BEFORE obama was even thought of....and by the way my GP WASR has NEVER jammed EVER and it is accurate in the way an AK should be...
Gunnerpalace
Member
I have a WASR and A TGI 75,
All I can say is with WASR watch out for canted sights I have some pretty bad ones on the WASR, I would say though if you want something cheap to shoot for fun you cant beat them.
All I can say is with WASR watch out for canted sights I have some pretty bad ones on the WASR, I would say though if you want something cheap to shoot for fun you cant beat them.
My friend and I both got Arsenal, Inc. (Las Vegas) SA-M7s nearly 10 years ago (they are the "ban" versions - no bayo lug, fixed muzzle brake). They are more accurate than the AK has a reputation for (consistently 2 MOA), and neither of us have never had a problem.
They were the first AK variants for either of us. He has more guns than me, and so he decided to "experiment" by essentially never cleaning his. It's not an astronomical number, but at last count the man had put some 4000 rounds through it without a hitch. I can't report on its present accuracy in that condition, however.
LOVE the Arsenal, Inc. guns. Many people will say the milled receiver is superfluous, if not outdated or inferior. I don't know about the latter remarks, but in any event I really like them. Just before the election, I also got one of the few "RPK" style guns they made, with the blonde wood furniture. What a great gun.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127180834
I got mine for significantly less than what is being asked for them now.
They were the first AK variants for either of us. He has more guns than me, and so he decided to "experiment" by essentially never cleaning his. It's not an astronomical number, but at last count the man had put some 4000 rounds through it without a hitch. I can't report on its present accuracy in that condition, however.
LOVE the Arsenal, Inc. guns. Many people will say the milled receiver is superfluous, if not outdated or inferior. I don't know about the latter remarks, but in any event I really like them. Just before the election, I also got one of the few "RPK" style guns they made, with the blonde wood furniture. What a great gun.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127180834
I got mine for significantly less than what is being asked for them now.
Mr. Bojangles
Member
I know I will get some flak for saying this, but go with a Romanian WASR-10/63. An AK-type rifle is not a beautiful rifle and if you are buying something for it's fit and finish, buy something else.
I have a WASR 10/63 that has had ZERO problems or jams despite literally two thousand rounds through it. It is reasonably accurate (for optimal accuracy buy an AR type rifle), and is easy to disassemble and maintain. And they are still relatively affordable. I was offered one brand-new in box a month ago from our local gun shop for $450. I didn't buy it but my friend did.
I have a WASR 10/63 that has had ZERO problems or jams despite literally two thousand rounds through it. It is reasonably accurate (for optimal accuracy buy an AR type rifle), and is easy to disassemble and maintain. And they are still relatively affordable. I was offered one brand-new in box a month ago from our local gun shop for $450. I didn't buy it but my friend did.
Bill2e
Member
WOW those prices are insane.
Are those rifles actually in stock????
The man who tells you to get a Chinese AK be it a Mak 90 or preban gives you the best advice. If you are on a budget get a Mak 90 for $500-$700 and put an American stock set on it, $135 wood- $70 plastic, and a US trigger group, $28, and you will have a great AK, IMO.
:banghead:
:banghead:Duke of Doubt
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I bought an SAR-1 in 2000. I've shot thousands and thousands of rounds through it, and it still looks and works great. I put a folding stock on her when the ban expired, and so now I can carry her concealed, one point over the shoulder with a 20 rounder under a coat. It's great.
Don't waste your time with Saigas. They aren't AK-pattern, they don't accept AK magazines, and they cannot take AK accessories without major modifications. For years they were a $169 way to get a sort-of-AK Mizhmazh. Their prices have increased during the Banic. Their merits have not.
Don't waste your time with Saigas. They aren't AK-pattern, they don't accept AK magazines, and they cannot take AK accessories without major modifications. For years they were a $169 way to get a sort-of-AK Mizhmazh. Their prices have increased during the Banic. Their merits have not.
I think I am somewhat qualified to chime in here as I own a few different ones....
There really are two types of AK's, the common rack grade mass produced guns and the custom built guns by smaller independent shops. The quality varries significantly while the price may not...
For quality on the rack guns, Arsenal, Saiga and the Yugo builds are going to be the better of the lot. The Polish guns being next, then the Norinco/Polytech and finally the Romanians. The key issues to look for are fit and finish. How well to they fit together and did the manufacturer take his time finishing the gun (is it pretty)? If they took their time their they probably did everywhere else. While the Yugo's may not be as pretty as the Arsenals or even the Polish guns they are built like tanks and will run forever. The Romanian guns suffer not only from poor fit and finish but often from canted front sights as well. Check that! But if the Romy works out of the box it should run fine for a long time.
The "custom" guns are going to use parts kits but these guys take their time and put a lot of love into making their guns. The fit and finish is usually much better and you have someone to call if there is an issue, unlike fighting the Century Arms nightmare that is their customer service. Price wise I have seen works of art go for the same price as the Arsenals and upper end guns.
As for what to expect preformance wise out of your AK, you wont get sub MOA. EVER. And that should not come as a shock since it is built as a battle rifle. The military grade M4's wont do sub-MOA either due to ammo constraints mostly but also because they are not required to built to preform like that. You want sub to one MOA, get a sniper/precission rifle. You want 2-4 MOA, get an M4 or a good AK. Rommy and ChiCom guns will do 3-5 MOA in most cases. But even with my cheapest Rommy and ChiCom guns I can engage man sized targets out to 400m, and thats what it is really all about with battle rifles anyway.
I hope that helps. If you want or need more info let me know.
There really are two types of AK's, the common rack grade mass produced guns and the custom built guns by smaller independent shops. The quality varries significantly while the price may not...
For quality on the rack guns, Arsenal, Saiga and the Yugo builds are going to be the better of the lot. The Polish guns being next, then the Norinco/Polytech and finally the Romanians. The key issues to look for are fit and finish. How well to they fit together and did the manufacturer take his time finishing the gun (is it pretty)? If they took their time their they probably did everywhere else. While the Yugo's may not be as pretty as the Arsenals or even the Polish guns they are built like tanks and will run forever. The Romanian guns suffer not only from poor fit and finish but often from canted front sights as well. Check that! But if the Romy works out of the box it should run fine for a long time.
The "custom" guns are going to use parts kits but these guys take their time and put a lot of love into making their guns. The fit and finish is usually much better and you have someone to call if there is an issue, unlike fighting the Century Arms nightmare that is their customer service. Price wise I have seen works of art go for the same price as the Arsenals and upper end guns.
As for what to expect preformance wise out of your AK, you wont get sub MOA. EVER. And that should not come as a shock since it is built as a battle rifle. The military grade M4's wont do sub-MOA either due to ammo constraints mostly but also because they are not required to built to preform like that. You want sub to one MOA, get a sniper/precission rifle. You want 2-4 MOA, get an M4 or a good AK. Rommy and ChiCom guns will do 3-5 MOA in most cases. But even with my cheapest Rommy and ChiCom guns I can engage man sized targets out to 400m, and thats what it is really all about with battle rifles anyway.
I hope that helps. If you want or need more info let me know.
Moose458
Member
+1 PvtPyle
Like he said. Classic Arms had Yugo M70ab2 underfolders for $699. In this day and age IMO that is still one of the best buys out there. Wrap the left side of the stock with para cord and you are good to go.
Like he said. Classic Arms had Yugo M70ab2 underfolders for $699. In this day and age IMO that is still one of the best buys out there. Wrap the left side of the stock with para cord and you are good to go.
general AK pros/cons:
pros:
+invincible platform
+unmatched reliability
+simplicity and ease of maintenance
+power
+cheap, steel, life-lasting mags
+is usually inexpensive
cons:
-ergonomics of a tree branch
-very crude sights
-accuracy ranges from about 2.5-5 inch MoA
-more recoil
your Bulgarian Arsenals are your best, but they run for the price of a top-shelf AR (~$1200-1500). IMO, not worth it. The AR is a better platform, and for the same price that is what I would choose.
Your next bet is the Saiga. they are Russian hunting carbines that get 're-converted' back to their original evil forms. Buying a Saiga and converting it yourself will set you back about 600-650 bucks for the gun and conversion parts, assuming you have the necessary common tools. You can also opt to buy them already converted from Arsenal or some other places for about $650-800.
After that comes your polytech/norinco models and your Yugoslavian models. Good accuracy and quality - especially in the Yugos. The yugos don't have chrome-lined bores, which gives them better accuracy; make sure you clean the barrel well, though. Both are also no longer being found state-side because of the Norinco ban and the drying up of Yugo kits, so for collectors' sake those two are good grabs (about $700 a piece). Then there are the SSR-85 Bulgarians. These are not real arsenal AKs, and there have been reports of problems with them. Same goes for other AKs in the same ballpark, like Lancaster and Vectors; basically WASR-quality AKs with a nice outer finish and internal parts of unknown provenance.
Then you have your WASRs. These run from $500-600 now. They used to be dirt cheap, but because of the panic...yea. You may be able to score them for around $400 if you look for it. These are your bottom-of-the-barrel in terms of quality, but they work just as well, and the accuracy is not much worse than even your better makes.
Personally, the Saiga conversion is the best for the buck. Better-than-average accuracy and great quality for about half the price of an Arsenal Bulgarian. Just remember that the accuracy difference between your Arsenal and your WASR is not much to gawk at or justify an extra 800 bucks; usually the difference is mostly brand-name and cosmetic finish and add-ons that just make the gun look cooler for the most part (the only exception is the presence of a muzzle break, since these DO help out noticeably)
(PS - I have a converted Saiga.)
pros:
+invincible platform
+unmatched reliability
+simplicity and ease of maintenance
+power
+cheap, steel, life-lasting mags
+is usually inexpensive
cons:
-ergonomics of a tree branch
-very crude sights
-accuracy ranges from about 2.5-5 inch MoA
-more recoil
your Bulgarian Arsenals are your best, but they run for the price of a top-shelf AR (~$1200-1500). IMO, not worth it. The AR is a better platform, and for the same price that is what I would choose.
Your next bet is the Saiga. they are Russian hunting carbines that get 're-converted' back to their original evil forms. Buying a Saiga and converting it yourself will set you back about 600-650 bucks for the gun and conversion parts, assuming you have the necessary common tools. You can also opt to buy them already converted from Arsenal or some other places for about $650-800.
After that comes your polytech/norinco models and your Yugoslavian models. Good accuracy and quality - especially in the Yugos. The yugos don't have chrome-lined bores, which gives them better accuracy; make sure you clean the barrel well, though. Both are also no longer being found state-side because of the Norinco ban and the drying up of Yugo kits, so for collectors' sake those two are good grabs (about $700 a piece). Then there are the SSR-85 Bulgarians. These are not real arsenal AKs, and there have been reports of problems with them. Same goes for other AKs in the same ballpark, like Lancaster and Vectors; basically WASR-quality AKs with a nice outer finish and internal parts of unknown provenance.
Then you have your WASRs. These run from $500-600 now. They used to be dirt cheap, but because of the panic...yea. You may be able to score them for around $400 if you look for it. These are your bottom-of-the-barrel in terms of quality, but they work just as well, and the accuracy is not much worse than even your better makes.
Personally, the Saiga conversion is the best for the buck. Better-than-average accuracy and great quality for about half the price of an Arsenal Bulgarian. Just remember that the accuracy difference between your Arsenal and your WASR is not much to gawk at or justify an extra 800 bucks; usually the difference is mostly brand-name and cosmetic finish and add-ons that just make the gun look cooler for the most part (the only exception is the presence of a muzzle break, since these DO help out noticeably)
(PS - I have a converted Saiga.)
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