Need legal advice. Huge problem. Worst of my life.

[Stealth101]

12 Volt
I feel your pain dude.....just remember you did no wrong!
Alot a of good advice has been given on how to protect yourself and your hunting dog! (firearms related!) Anyway once my wife and I moved into a new house....we hadnt even been there a day and some busybody gossiped to a neighbor on how we didnt have a dog house and they would call animal control if I didnt ! needless to say I was outraged ....they didnt come over to say welcome, but they sure were full of judgement! My wife had actually gone to buy a new house for our golden that same day, as his old one had broken....if the busybody had taken the time to get to know us they would have known the real skinny......in your case it could have been any liberal , bambyist who caused your trouble .............at any rate you need to move swiftly to protect yourself and not let their headtrips bog you down!
Good Luck and let us all know how it goes........

 

[Jim Diver]

I would also sue the cops as individuals.. Let them get a taste of the trouble they so willingly gave to you. When you win your dog back and sue the city/county, don't forget the icing and go after the cops badge.

Please keep us updated on this abuse of police power.

 

[gabeodog]

The same sortta thing happend to me exept it was hot not cold.
I have a bluetick that I brought with me to my mothers in NY and my neighbor called the cops cause she said the dog was to hot with no water.
This was my hunting dog and he was fine (w/water) the cop asked to see my dog. I showed him. He chuckled said thats a fine dog and left.
The moral of my story is I know my dog and what is good or bad for him
and knowone else has the right to invade privacy.
Get a lawer and sue for invasion of privacy and defomation of carictor.
And trama inflicted on the dog.
There have been worse suits

 

[DorGunR]

There have been worse suits

Yeah........hot coffee and McDonalds comes to mind.

 

[12 Volt Man]

Just so you know I thought about the whole "firearms related" thing and still decided to post this. He is a hunting dog, and I am afraid if they try to prosecute me and convict me of some sort of BS, I will lose my CCW license.

Issue is still ongoing, it is early Monday morning. I decided to come to work and not miss any pay over this. I will be making some calls on my breaks. I think I am going to ask for my Vet to be able to examine the dog and go from there.

 

[joelr]

You've been given, it seems to me, some really good advice about getting a lawyer, and not trying to handle this yourself.

Hope you do.

Regardless of what the facts are -- and I'm perfectly willing to take your word that they're as you say they are -- you've gotten on the wrong side of the local nanny state authorities, and, regardless of what the underlying facts are, they're clearly out to get you, even if only, at this point, to show that they weren't in the wrong before.

It's a safe bet that they won't be reasonable, and that you won't be able to reason your way out of it.

My own take -- and IANAL, but I know a few -- is that at the very least, any time that an official reads you your rights, the answer is, "I need to speak to my attorney, and I do not consent to any search." (There's plenty of other times when that's the right thing to say, too.)

 

[Graystar]

I feel your pain dude.....just remember you did no wrong!

And how exactly do you know that? The fact that a puppy was kept out in below 40 weather is itself questionable.

 

[Partisan Ranger]

I'd agree that 12 Volt was probably borderline negligent. Keeping a puppy in the cold probably isn't right.


But come now. Ruin a man's life for a shivering dog? It isn't as if he did anything malicious. There is a slight difference between negligence and purposely hurting an animal. I think we have some overly-zealous dog lovers taking out their life frustrations on a poor guy who made an honest mistake.

Worst case, they should make him take dog care classes at his expense or something.

If I were you and they took me to the wall on this, I'd fight them to the death with the best attorney I could afford. Good luck and please tell us how it's going.


By the way, you are doing a public service by sharing this terrible situation with us. I'll make G.D. sure whenever we get a dog that the dog-Nazis can't ever nail me like they're doing to you. Thanks.

 

[joelr]

You don't have to know whether not he's guilty of anything to know that he definitely needs a lawyer at this point.

I'd argue that it shouldn't be that way -- but it definitely is that way.

 

[fix]

I'd be looking to make the electrician's life hard.

That could be done by spreading the word that he is a busybody who has trouble focusing on his work.

 

[TheeBadOne]

Origionally posted by Jim Diver:

I would also sue the cops as individuals.. Let them get a taste of the trouble they so willingly gave to you. When you win your dog back and sue the city/county, don't forget the icing and go after the cops badge.

Please keep us updated on this abuse of police power.

In your rush to judgement you overlooked 12 volt man's post stated:

"When my wife got home from work, there was a note from animal control on the front door saying they were investigating me for animal cruelty."

Guess that blows your "abuse of police power" comment (along with suing "the cops").

2 cents

 

[Andrew Rothman]

The dog was not simply "outside." According to 12 Volt Man's first post, the dog was in a run under a porch, and further had access to an "igloo type" dog house.

Like joelr, I live in Minnesota, which gets, I believe, considerably colder than Utah. The standard here, according to Minneapolis police, it that a dog in a shelter is NOT presumed to be mistreated, regardless of cold temperature (hot weather is another matter).

 

[joelr]

Well, sure, Matt; that's the standard. There are portions of Utah that get a lot colder.

That said, I'm not at all sure that the original poster was or wasn't doing anything wrong. I don't have enough information, and I haven't heard the other side.

But, regardless of whether or not what we've heard here is accurate or complete, it's very clear that, once the authorities got themselves involved, he needs an attorney, for a lot of reasons. As he speculated, it's not impossible that even a misdemeanor conviction for animal cruelty -- even if, say, it were part of a zero-time, zero-fine plea bargain -- could be used against him at some future time, when applying for a carry permit, or in any other context.

I know a guy -- not me, honest -- who pled out, many years ago, to a misdemeanor of domestic violence, during a nasty divorce. (He said that he'd never so much as raised his hand in anger to his wife, and that it was just her and her lawyer playing hardball. I believe him, but I could be wrong.)

Years later, he's not only ineligible to get a carry permit, but to so much as touch a rifle.

Could this turn out the same way? I wouldn't want to bet that it couldn't.

 

[BHPshooter]

I'd agree that 12 Volt was probably borderline negligent.

How do you figure? It may do some good to go back and read the initial post, as 12 Volt stated that his dog run is under is porch, is completely covered, and he has a dogloo (very warm). On top of that, it hasn't been that cold in central Utah. 12 Volt's estimation of 40 degrees is about right... just a reminder: that's ABOVE freezing. It may be different if he was leaving the dog in a snowdrift in Logan Canyon (lowest recorded temp in the western US).

He also said that the dog is inside when he is around, and is let inside to eat and sleep.

If the dog was the subject of negligence, it would act like a neglected dog.

It was also said that there was dog crap in the run... as previously mentioned, if the dog hadn't had any imports, there'd be no exports either.

Wes

 

[BHPshooter]

Well, sure, Matt; that's the standard. There are portions of Utah that get a lot colder.

And those portions are not in Davis County. You're thinking of a couple hundred miles farther north -- like in Cache County.

Wes

 

[Russ]

Sorry to hear that happened to you. I have a Boxer. She is small and has always been skinny. We tried to fatten her up to no avail. I finally met a breeder of Boxers who told me what a beautiful dog she was and that she was supposed to be skinny. He said she was perfect as is. He told me because she was a large chested dog, she did not need to be fat. Large chested dogs that are fat die early and painfully. There I had it from an expert. For years I was trying to make her something she wasn't.

My Boxer is 13 years old. This is 3-5 years older than the average. What a wonderful and awesomely beautiful dog she has been. I have never seen a dog that can move so fast or gracefully. Truly impressive. We have always treated her as if she were one of our children.

I'm sure you treated your dog like that too. Too bad the people who try to enforce animal cruelty laws don't have a clue about most breeds they deal with. Certainly they deal with some low life persons that don't take care of their animal but that has to be the rare exception.

Like many previous posts, get a breeder or specialist to help you. Chances are they won't even charge you once you give them some evidence.

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

12v man, sorry to hear of your misfortune. The lesson it seems here is:
Put dog inside whenever your expecting outsiders in, around, or near your home. The word "dog" could be substituted for many other things like guns, jewelry, dirtbike, ATV, snowmobile etc. It's too bad that we can't have possessions that aren't coveted or looked upon with prying eyes. There are people who have nothing better to do than to scrutinize the way in which you/ I / we live. BTW, if your dog looks like the one in the picture, English Pointers are some very majestic and beautiful dogs.

My Vet always says "A hungry dog is a healthy dog" I hope you're able to sort things out in a way that doesn't hurt you too seriously. Good Luck.

 

[moa]

Is it possible the dog has parasites such as worms? That might affect its condition.

 

[telomerase]

I'd agree that 12 Volt was probably borderline negligent. Keeping a puppy in the cold probably isn't right.

Oh, come on. When I was a kid, my bedroom in the farmhouse was a lot colder than 40 degrees, and I didn't have a Dogloo. Dogs don't have sweat glands (except on their feet, if they're not Malamutes), and do have fur. As long as they are well-fed, they'll be fine.

 

[LifeNRA]

Have to agree with telomerase. When I was a kid all we had to heat with was a fireplace. We would pile as many blankets on as we had and shiver anyway. We always built doghouses for our dogs and put hay in them for warmth. No matter how cold it would get at night our dogs would be up and about the next day. I really wish people would mind thier own business. Too many busy bodies these days. If that do gooder had seen as many stray dogs shot and killed as I have seen he would have a heart attack. Sorry I have no advice for you but you seem to have gotten the best advice already.

 

[Stealth101]

Graystar....
IMO The man did no wrong ....the dog is 6mo. old and is fully capable of 40 degree weather, with an insulated dog house ta boot!
My Dad raised English pointers and hunted for quite afew years I know he didnt pamper the dogs but he surely didnt abuse them either ! He loved em ! Some how just listening to 12 Volts angst I can see he loves his dog.......and did no wrong.....
My Golden retreiver by the way is outside in a hell of lot more colder weather.....he loves every minute of it too....and will rarely use his house...he would rather lay in the snow.....we live at 10,000 feet as well....

 

[12 Volt Man]

OK here is an update. Things are looking up a little. I started the day making many calls that were unreturned. I called the head of animal control, the county commissioner and the county prosecutors office. I finally got a call from the supervisor of the "officer" working on this. I explained my side a little more and asked that they come inspect my property inside where the dog was fed and slept. We agreed to meet at my house. I also requested that my vet be able to examine the dog. They said aggreed to that as well. It did not seem to go anywhere when they came to the house. They were very aggressive and not very nice.
Then off to the vet. They said they would meet us there with the dog. when we got there the dog looked fine and was excited to see us. He was hyper as usual. My vet inspected the dog and found many things to verify my story. One thing of note was that he said the dog had a nice layer of fat on his belly that would not be there if the dog was not being fed. He also had great muscles in his front and back legs. There is more but I will save that info for when it is needed. He also has another vet that rents space in his building. He asked her to come give an assessment of the dog. He did not tell her anything of the story. They both came up with the same results. Exept the second vet decided to check the stool for worms. Turns out the dog had a type of worm (round worms I think) and they are passed on from the mother. This could contribute to the skinnyness of the dog too.
Animal control said that they were still going to keep the dog in their custody. I asked if my vet could board the dog if he agreed not to release it until they said. They agreed. My vet now has the dog and I feel better. I also feel like if they try to prosecute they don't have much.
Here is a pic I took at the vet. See for yourself. Thanks again for the support. Please keep any ideas coming.

Just for comparison. A pic of the sire of the dog.

A pic of the sire when he was young.

 

[RightIsRight]

There are some valid points on both sides of the issue.

However, English Pointers are NOT cold weather dogs. They have thin one layer coats that are not conducive to long periods in the cold. That said, I do not know the exact conditions this dog was kept in (yeah, I got the general idea), so I will reserve judgement.

Stealth101 and others, different breeds have very different tolerances for heat and cold. Just because your Golden loves the cold, does not mean a greyhound will.

My full grown pointer gets cold and starts to shiver after being out on a 30 degree day for half an hour. My black lab can stay out all day in a full snowstorm and never come to the door to be let in. Conversely, the lab can't tolerate a 45 minute walk w/o water in 95 degree heat whereas the pointer can run all day on a few sips of H20.

 

[P95Carry]

Pelvic region looks a tad ''lean'' 12 Volt but ... the worms will have had some effect - and they are well common.

Apart from that ... fine lookin pup .... and I hope now more that this can become a ''storm in a teacup''.

 

[Jim Diver]

I think it is now clear that the officers have NO CLUE what they are talking about and should have released the dog to you after your vet saw the animal.

I would bill them for boarding fees at the vet.. After all, they are so incompetent they don't know a healthy animal when they see one, how can they be trusted to keep said animal healthy?

I would definitely hire a lawyer and sue the hell out of them. I wonder what would happen if you filed a stolen property report with LEO? There is clearly no claim for them to keep your dog. If I was in your position, I would sever all contact with the county officials and refer them to my lawyer. No point letting them work you over when you can have a pit bull work them over.