Need Suggestions for Quality 7.62 Rifle

[kdunn]

So I'm wanting to buy a quality 7.62x51 Semi-Auto Rifle. I want it to be around 8 pounds (this throws out the M1A), reliable, and capable of 1 MOA. Primary purpose will be hunting and range time.

*EDIT: Would also like for this gun to be piston operated*

I love the AR platform. I have a few AR-15's/M4's but I'm new to the AR-10. The problem I'm having is that from what I've seen so far there is no "standard" when it comes to AR-10's.

Realistically, I'd like to keep the price around $1500. But so far the only 308 semi auto's that I like are $1800 or more. So I can spend more if I need to.

Anyone have suggestions?

-kdunn

 

[dh1633pm]

I purchased a DPMS AR10. First purchased the lower, then the upper and then the stock. I would say it was under the $1500 mark. I had the heavy fluted barrel. Although I sold it before the unsafe act was passed.

 

[Olympus]

PTR 91 or a more inexpensive Century C308 would be options.

 

[Ironicaintit]

The first thing that popped to mind was an FAL. Or an L1A1.
Some may dispute it's 1 MOA capability....but it's probably my favorite, so I couldn't not suggest it.

 

[Ks5shooter]

Any DPMS G2. I own the G2 hunter 7.75 lbs and a tackdriver.

 

[Panzerschwein]

+1

My PTR-91 GI has been an amazing rifle.

 

[Quentin]

...
*EDIT: Would also like for this gun to be piston operated* ...

-kdunn

You might want to bump up your budget to get lots of viable piston .308 AR candidates. Remember that piston ARs weigh more than DI so you also may have to bump up that 8 lb. weight requirement.

 

[kdunn]

You might want to bump up your budget to get lots of viable piston .308 AR candidates. Remember that piston ARs weigh more than DI so you also may have to bump up that 8 lb. weight requirement.

Quentin,

I'm seeing more and more that $1500 probably isn't going to cut it with my requirements. I could spend anywhere up to around $2,500 but then I would have to be running irons for a while since that other $1,000 I was planning on using for an optic.

However I would still like to stick with the 8 lb requirement (before optics are added) if possible. I've lugged around 11 lb rifles before and it gets old after a while

 

[kdunn]

+1

My PTR-91 GI has been an amazing rifle.

Can you provide me with more info on your rifle as far as they relate to my stated requirements? I don't know much about this platform

 

[kdunn]

Any DPMS G2. I own the G2 hunter 7.75 lbs and a tackdriver.

I've looked at the G2's. The idea seems awesome. A smaller frame AR-10 seems great but I've seen mixed reviews on it. Also, isn't it a direct impingement system?

 

[Olympus]

Can you provide me with more info on your rifle as far as they relate to my stated requirements? I don't know much about this platform

That's a copy of the Heckler & Koch G3 platform made by a company called PTR 91. As it relates to your requirements? It's a quality semi-auto 308 weighing around 8lbs with a long documented history of reliability and can probably achieve 1 MOA with good quality ammo.

 

[M1key]

PTR is not piston operated, however.

The FAL is and a good one will shoot MOA with match ammo.

M

 

[kdunn]

PTR is not piston operated, however.



The FAL is and a good one will shoot MOA with match ammo.



M

I'm not too familiar with the FAL other than knowing what they look like and they're .308. What exactly constitutes a "good one?"

 

[MistWolf]

On the average, the PTR91 is a 2 MOA rifle with good ammo.

If you can get an FAL to consistently shoot under 3 MOA with ANY kind of ammo, you've got a miracle rifle and good better keep it.

Take a close look at the M&P-10. Unloaded without sling or optics, it weighs a little less than 8 pounds and changing out the boat anchors S&W uses for the muzzle device and gas block will shave a few more ounces. Mine will shoot MOA or a bit less with good ammo. It will not feed low pressure milsurp reliably and have me 5-8 MOA at 100 yards

 

[M1key]

Define "consistently"...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=715137&highlight=fal+accuracy

post 7 and 8

I have more pictures but cannot access them. The top group with match handloads was admittedly the better of two five-shot groups with 10 consecutive shots fired without allowing barrel to cool, fired prone off bags. The other five shot group printed about 1.5". Met W.E.G.'s challenge criteria of 2 inches or less.

The G1 with Wetzlar-Hensoldt army issue scope could put five Nato loads into roughly MOA. Sadly that one is long gone (when market price hit 4000+).

FrankenFAL CAI was a good shooter too. Sold recently to a friend.

Granted all of these rifles would open up when the barrel got hotter. Anything will, but if a guy is a little patient, he should be able to find/build one that will shoot better than 3 MOA.

To Kdunn: Israeli pattern heavy barrel FALOs are MOA capable, too. A friend said his "grouped like a bolt gun." If you can find one at a reasonable(?) price or have someone build you a FAL with a match grade bull barrel (it's only money LOL). I think DSA used to build one, a copy of the FALO, I believe.

Edit to add: None of the aforementioned FALs (except the G1) had factory original muzzle brakes. I experimented with a few different ones: Ron Smith International, Entreprise Arms Zero Climb, etc., even a butchered DSA post ban brake which was eventually replaced by the DSA STG replica flash hider (not as good IMO), and they all shot better than factory. Barrel harmonics, diverts gases better? Don't know for sure...

I did have a Garand that would shoot eight-shot groups with match and M2 ball nearly twice as good with the Ron Smith brake (2.5MOA=>1.5, 4MOA=>2.5 respectively). A gun magazine had a write-up many years ago (American Rifleman?) and the author concluded that the Smith brake was the single most effective thing you could do to your Garand to improve accuracy. So there is apparently something to one's choice of muzzle devices.

My experience with the FAL goes back 35 years. I have owned/still own others: DSA SA58, FN-FAL 50.0

Good Luck

M

 

[MikeInOr]

I have a HK-91, a FAL and a Garand (similar enough to M1A). If I were to buy a new semi-auto .308 it would be a FN-AR. Built on the very well proven BAR action and much more accurate by all accounts than battle rifles but it still has the important battle rifle features like a detachable mag and rails (None of my battle rifles have rails).



I love my battle rifles but IMHO the inherent accuracy of the FN-AR wins out!

 

[Coal Dragger]

I've read some good reviews of the FN SCAR 17 turning in around 1 MOA accuracy, and it makes weight. Plus they're supposed to be very very rugged and reliable.

Downsides are cost, sadly blasts past your budget by a lot of money, and the heavy bolt carrier/piston give the rifle some forward recoil on closing that evidently murders cheap scopes. So if you go that route plan to buy good glass, and a good mount; no cheap stuff.

 

[G.barnes]

Why do you want a piston setup. I've had 4 308 ar's, one of them being the ruger 762. It was the only piston I owned. It was the most front heavy and had the most recoil. Your best bet is to build your own with hand picked parts. With 308 it's hard to get light, cheap, and accurate. You get to pick two. Most semi auto 308's like cetme, ptr91, fal are going to be 2 moa battlerifles. Unless 100 yd accuracy is all you looking for your going to want something that can do better than that.

 

[Bart B.]

What do you mean by " capable of 1 MOA?"

All rifles will shoot 1 MOA once in a (great) while. Few, if any, commercial ones will shoot all shots inside 1 MOA at 100 yards. At what range is your accuracy standard based on and for how many consecutive shots?

Checked the 'net for accuracy reports on all sorts of detachable magazine commercial semiauto .308's and none claim all shots under 1 MOA that I've observed.

The US Army Marksmanship Team now uses rebuilt AR10's with top level match barrels for long range competition in service rifle matches. They use handloads because no commercial ammo does as well.

 

[kdunn]

On the average, the PTR91 is a 2 MOA rifle with good ammo.

If you can get an FAL to consistently shoot under 3 MOA with ANY kind of ammo, you've got a miracle rifle and good better keep it.

Take a close look at the M&P-10. Unloaded without sling or optics, it weighs a little less than 8 pounds and changing out the boat anchors S&W uses for the muzzle device and gas block will shave a few more ounces. Mine will shoot MOA or a bit less with good ammo. It will not feed low pressure milsurp reliably and have me 5-8 MOA at 100 yards

The M&P-10 fits most of my requirements, but doesn't it has a direct impingement system? Also do you know if it can it be had with a 16" barrel? I'll be using a suppressor so I like to shave length whenever I can

 

[kdunn]

I have a HK-91, a FAL and a Garand (similar enough to M1A). If I were to buy a new semi-auto .308 it would be a FN-AR. Built on the very well proven BAR action and much more accurate by all accounts than battle rifles but it still has the important battle rifle features like a detachable mag and rails (None of my battle rifles have rails).



I love my battle rifles but IMHO the inherent accuracy of the FN-AR wins out!

I will definitely check out the FN-AR. Only problem I'm worried about here is magazine compatibility. What kind of mags does it take? Can it use SCAR mags? Not that I have a SCAR, but that just gives me another option

 

[kdunn]

I've read some good reviews of the FN SCAR 17 turning in around 1 MOA accuracy, and it makes weight. Plus they're supposed to be very very rugged and reliable.

Downsides are cost, sadly blasts past your budget by a lot of money, and the heavy bolt carrier/piston give the rifle some forward recoil on closing that evidently murders cheap scopes. So if you go that route plan to buy good glass, and a good mount; no cheap stuff.

The SCAR 17 seems like it fits all of my criteria the best... except cost. While the SCAR 17 definitely intrigues me, and I could spend a little more to get a SCAR and just hold off on glass for a while, I want to see what my other options are before I drop about $2800 on a rifle.

Having not ventured far outside the realm of AR-15's, I'm still pretty new to semi-auto rifles chambered in anything other than 5.56 and 300 BLK.

Do you have any experience with the SCAR 17 that might convince me it is worth the extra cost?

 

[kdunn]

What do you mean by " capable of 1 MOA?"

All rifles will shoot 1 MOA once in a (great) while. Few, if any, commercial ones will shoot all shots inside 1 MOA at 100 yards. At what range is your accuracy standard based on and for how many consecutive shots?

By 1 MOA I mean the I want the rifle to shoot 1 MOA within its effective range consistently.

But personally, I won't be taking shots past 300 yards with it, so for me I don't need 1 MOA past 300 yards.

 

[kdunn]

Why do you want a piston setup. I've had 4 308 ar's, one of them being the ruger 762. It was the only piston I owned. It was the most front heavy and had the most recoil. Your best bet is to build your own with hand picked parts. With 308 it's hard to get light, cheap, and accurate. You get to pick two. Most semi auto 308's like cetme, ptr91, fal are going to be 2 moa battlerifles. Unless 100 yd accuracy is all you looking for your going to want something that can do better than that.

I want the piston set up for a few reasons:

1. I've never had a piston operated rifle and I like the idea behind it

2. Less carbon build up. One of the selling points of the piston system is that it runs cleaner and will require less maintenance. If this is true I like this a lot.

3. The idea of a lighter recoil 7.62 caliber semi-auto interests me. I'm a big guy, so I personally have never had a problem with recoil from a 7.62, but If I reduce the recoil and possibly increase performance (faster follow up shots, etc.) I'd like to have that option on my rifle.

I understand you stated that lighter recoil was not the case with your Ruger, but almost every other piston operated semi-auto I have come across has had reduced felt recoil

 

[MechAg94]

IMO, one of the AR10 builds would be easy to scope and more likely to shoot accurately on a consistent basis. They are also easy to upgrade later such as a better trigger.

In your price range, you could look at a free float PSA AR10 build then upgrade the trigger and barrel. I guess that wouldn't be a piston rifle though. I think I would put my accuracy requirement above the need for a pistol rifle myself.