New extreme performance self defense 12 gauge slugs. Revised Part 2

[ar15shooter]

I was wanting to get peoples opinions on a new 12 gauge shotgun self defense round that is due out this fall. Here is a link about the ammo https://www.ammoland.com/2017/08/g2-research-releases-worlds-deadliest-12-gauge-round/#axzz4wTrONKXC , it is made by G2 Research and the company has spent three years on making this round. They are selling for around 50 bucks for a box of 5. So it is expensive but what do you all think of the round for it primary purpose, self defense.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Solution looking for a problem. Willa $10 slug kill at shotgun range? Yes. Will a 50 cent shell kill at shotgun range, Yes.

Effective performance design range 0-10 yards

This round is designed for self-defense only and has a true effective performance expansion range of 10 yards. Several reasons for this: Much beyond that range the slug will begin to yaw which can affect correct strike angle for it to open as designed.

it is not designed to be used for hunting, sporting or barrier penetration–it is designed for self-defense.

This round must NOT be fired in guns with rifling, compensators, chokes or modified barrel cylinders, etc. The only type of barrel safely used is a modern smooth bore riot type shotgun barrel.

This slug literally does NOTHING a standard 12 ga slug will do well PAST 10 yards. It is admittedly inaccurate, does not penetrate barriers without breaking up, and costs over ten times what a regular Foster slug from Walmart costs, OH and you can't shoot it through anything but a smooth bore, further reducing accuracy. Sounds like a great combo for a pistol grip only Mossberg 500. Four boxes of shells costs as much as the gun.



Think I'll pass.

 

[mjsdwash]

improving the penetration of a bullet that can go through the broadside of a bison? Seems silly. Improving the number of of projectiles in a shotgun? Seems silly. This looks like an expensive, less effective buck-and-ball setup, but I don't know if any commercial loader offers buck/ball. The only advantage would be range, but a slug works fine at range. Im sure it will work though, but I would stick with the 000 buck for 20 yards, and 440gr 1700fps slugs if I ever need to shotgun hunt - just saw the article continues below the pics.... they say its no good for hunting, and its effective range is less than 00 buck.

 

[Nathanael_Greene]

Think of what it would cost to practice with the rounds to get an idea of where the shots land.

 

[Sistema1927]

I doubt that they will recover their R&D costs.

 

[beeenbag]

I don't think anyone has ever argued the lethality of a shotgun at shotgun ranges. This round is an expensive way to get the same results.

This new fad will not "kill em any deader" than a 2 3/4 00 buck that I can afford to practice with.

Answer to a question that was never asked.

I can not even think of a specific application where this would be worth the cost.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Kinda cool and intriguing, but too rich for my blood.

 

[Panzerschwein]

A standard Federal 1 oz 12 gauge hollow point deer slug will expand/fragment to nearly the size of a silver dollar and penetrate about 14" dumping 2500 ft lbs of energy into an attacker.

That's extreme enough performance for me.

$0.60 per slug at Wal Mart.

 

[Sam1911]

So it is expensive but what do you all think of the round for it primary purpose, self defense.

If you hit what you are aiming at, within that 0-10 yard advertised effective range (I mean, really? Ten yards?) any common shell payload will be completely devastating. Certainly any of the buckshot sizes, and probably several of the waterfowl heavy sizes as well. ANY kind of slug will do the job.

If they wanted to hype this up as a limited penetration item, like the old Glazer safety slug idea, maybe there'd be a sales point they could use.

But it will be effective at the one thing it was really designed to do: move money from buyers' pockets into G2 Research's bank accounts. And there's nothing wrong with that, if that's what you're looking for in a defensive weapon.

 

[lemaymiami]

As folks have said already... doesn't appear to be much of an advantage for a big increase in what you'd have to pay for them....

To put it mildly, basic 2 3/4" 12 gauge rounds with either 00buck or standard rifled slugs make terrible wounds in human flesh - you have to see it to believe it... Lots of myth about shotgun ammo and it's effects on the human torso (mostly movies and TV that grossly exaggerate the impact of a shotgun blast in action sequences...) but the reality is that a solid center of mass hit on a person within 15 meters is going to be a fight ender most of the time - with just one shot.... No special ammo needed at all.

 

[444]

It would be hard to exaggerate the impact of a shotgun at close range on a human; with buckshot.

I have never seen anyone shot with a slug, but I would imagine it would be a horrific wound. I have shot deer with shotgun slugs and at least with the ones I shot, they dropped pretty much in their tracks.

I really can't see the point in trying to "enhance" the effects of a shotgun slug for use against humans. Because shotguns are so common in the US, I think a lot of people fail to appreciate what a cannon, a shotgun slug is. A shotgun slug is a HUGE projectile moving at moderate velocity. It is probably one of the most effective short range weapons on the planet. At least practical/realistic short range weapons.

 

[PabloJ]

I was wanting to get peoples opinions on a new 12 gauge shotgun self defense round that is due out this fall. Here is a link about the ammo https://www.ammoland.com/2017/08/g2-research-releases-worlds-deadliest-12-gauge-round/#axzz4wTrONKXC , it is made by G2 Research and the company has spent three years on making this round. They are selling for around 50 bucks for a box of 5. So it is expensive but what do you all think of the round for it primary purpose, self defense.

No, it would be great shame to ruin such a beautiful "Christmas tree ornament" by shooting it out of shotgun barrel.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I expect just about any generic 12ga slug or #00 buckshot hunting load (5 rounds per box for $5 or less) to be adequate for bear or deer hunting.
I just cannot see paying extra for special "self defense" rounds.
Honestly I see no diff in spex between Win military buckshot and Win hunting buckshot.
If what I already have at hand will stop a black bear or bring down a deer, it is adequate for self defense against an attacker.
Judging from local news reports, just having any gun is adequate to chase off an attacker, or detain him for arrest by responding officers.

 

[C0untZer0]

Taofledermaus reviews a lot of different shotgun ammo, there have been some very good designs, but I'm certainly interested in the G2:

 

[C0untZer0]

The Gualbo steel slugs are $22.00 for 10 shells and they're much more stable than the G2 slugs, and they have a stable trajectory whether fired from a smooth bore or rifled barrel. I thought the G2 bullet design would translate well into a shotgun slug but somehow these guys messed it up - they couldn't come up with a design that was stable in flight. And its kind of baffling since there are already designs out there that fragment on impact, yet they're stable in flight...

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/DGS-Gualbo-Steel-Slug-12ga-10_pak/productinfo/0721614/

 

[jeepnik]

I have got to invent some new gee wiz ammo that fools will pay ridiculous prices for. I could enjoy being rich.

A good ole foster slug will work as well as any of the new stuff at the distances shotguns are used for self defense. We are talking, generally, unarmored human beings, not WWII Panzers.

And if you do run into someone wearing body armor capable of absorbing a foster and still standing you have two choices. Either shoot them again in somewhere that's unarmored, or run away crying for your mama.

 

[Dr.Rob]

If your target is in soft armor you will still likely break their ribs, bruise their lungs/heart and generally make them have a bad day. Slugs have a LOT of power.

 

[JohnKSa]

I'd say it's gilding the lily. I'm not aware of anyone raising issues with the lethality/performance of standard 12ga slugs.

But let's say that someone wants short range performance that includes multiple, deep-penetrating projectiles from a shotgun--there already are options out there that provide that. One option is plain buckshot which would give you more projectiles than the G2 round, or if you wanted to essentially duplicate the performance of the G2 round (one large caliber projectile and several smaller ones) you could go with a buck & ball loading like this one:

http://www.jgsales.com/12ga-nobel-s...-defense-buck-and-ball,-10rd-box.-p-1638.html

At less than $1 a shot...

 

[444]

If your target is in soft armor you will still likely break their ribs, bruise their lungs/heat and generally make them have a bad day. Slugs have a LOT of power.

Talk about a pre-cordial thump !!!

 

[lemaymiami]

For those not aware, one of factors that makes 00buck so effective (other than hitting with nine .33cal pellets at the same moment...) is the serious penetration they achieve. I expect and obtain a full 15 to 18" of penetration on a human torso and ranges under 15 meters. That sort of penetration is also what makes that old .45cal hardball (standard G.I. round) so terribly effective....

 

[C0untZer0]

I'm not sure about the connection between 00 Buck and .45 ACP FMJ. Full metal jacket .45 ACP penetrates between 20" and 26" in gel tests. I don't think a through-and-through shot is more effective than projectiles that damage vital organs but ultimately stay in the body.

In the IWBA denim protocol, The majority of the #4 Buckshot pellets seem to penetrate 13" to 14" with some of the pellets traveling as far as 15" and only a few stopping at 11"




The #1 Buck seems to penetrate to 18" in the IWBA protocol.



I personally don't think that penetration past 18" is going to do much more to the assailant than projectiles that stay under 18"

If you look at the Winchester 12ga Super-X slug, it only penetrates to around 14.50" and expands to 1.24" in ballistic gel, when a .45 ACP round penetrates to 15" and expands to around .78", people generally say that's a great performing projectile, so a shotgun slug that penetrates about the same distance but has over 1½ times the expansion should also be a great performing projectile.

 

[jeepnik]

I get a kick out of seeing Foster slugs listed as "rifled". The projections on the circumference do not impart spin to the slug. What they do is center the slug in the shotgun barrel yet allow it to compress and squeeze through the choke at the end of the barrel.

For the young, shotguns of old didn't have interchangeable choke tubes. You want to change choke, you changed barrel.

 

[paulsj]

I use 16ga Brenneke 1oz slug in 65mm shell case. If you had 16ga you could enjoy simple life with fewer choices to make w/o this new product foolishness.

 

[Virginian]

Man, the zombie crowd will love these.

 

[ar15shooter]

I was wanting to get peoples opinions on a new 12 gauge shotgun self defense round that is due out this fall. Here is a link about the ammo https://www.ammoland.com/2017/08/g2-research-releases-worlds-deadliest-12-gauge-round/#axzz4wTrONKXC , it is made by G2 Research and the company has spent three years on making this round. They are selling for around 50 bucks for a box of 5. So it is expensive but what do you all think of the round for it primary purpose, self defense.

I wanted to ask you all the above question before telling you how I came across this and wanted to hear your reaction after you read and answered the first part. The way I came across this was in my magazine LEPN(Law Enforcement Product News) and learned they are trying to advertise this to the law enforcement community. With reading your answers I learned a lot of new information and thank everyone for their posts. But my question now is what would you think if you local police department invested in these shells based on the ballistic properties, as most of you have talked about, and the fact that they price around $50 dollars for 5. I would like to hear your answers and I am also going to try to post a poll on what you think of law enforcement investing in these shells.