New extreme performance self defense 12 gauge slugs. Revised Part 2

Do you agree with law enforcement investing in these shells?


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As a full time LE firearms instructor (shoot me a PM with an email address and I'll be happy to respond from my work email), I can say this is about as close to ballistic snake oil as you're going to get. Winchester already produces a segmented slug that does basically the same thing for WAY cheaper (looked like about $1.50 a shell with the first site I pulled up). We tested the Winchester shell and it does do basically what it claims (anyone who is LE, get in touch and I can share the specifics on it), but we found that for several reasons it was not an appropriate round for our use. This wouldn't be any better and about 10x more expensive.

-Jenrick
 
... what would you think if you local police department invested in these shells based on the ballistic properties, as most of you have talked about, and the fact that they price around $50 dollars for 5.
Until someone comes up with convincing evidence that standard buck & slugs (or other reasonably priced loadings on the market like the buck & ball I linked to in my earlier post) are somehow deficient, I think it's a waste of money.
 
I would seriously be questioning the judgement of our chief of police if he spent tax payer money on these shells.
 
Lots of folks have a pretty distorted concept of how most agencies actually work (understatement). In a career with a small sized department (100 sworn) that would have been considered to be quite well equipped by local standards (south Florida) all we ever purchased for shotgun ammo (and this was before the rise of "patrol rifles" and the slow phasing out of shotguns) was either Remington or Winchester buck or slug (basic 2 3/4" rounds) in whatever came cheapest for bulk purchases.... Anyone thinking that law enforcement in general would be up for purchasing very expensive "special purpose" rounds for general use is just kidding themselves -and so is that manufacturer if they're aiming for big sales to various agencies...

For most agencies, just keeping on hand sufficient ammo for training purposes was something that required a bit of effort since weapons related stuff was such a minor part of all the other annual items that had to be fought for (and often, needed gear went by the wayside since it all had to have the approval of the city council -chiefs spend a lot of their time just trying to have the basics on hand, along with a full complement of personnel year to year...). Here's a pretty good yardstick for what it costs to put just one additional officer on the street - take the annual salary, then add twice that much in real dollars to get the true cost of one additional officer - so if the salary is in the $50k range it will actually cost the city $150k -and that's a recurring cost - not a one time proposition.. Any wonder why just being able to do training can be a struggle?

I actually ran training for my outfit for a period of about three years (actually it was personnel and training - on small agencies you get to wear more than one hat as you move up in rank away from the street...) so I do have a pretty good idea of what's involved on the training side of things - both for basic department wide annual qualifications as well as what was needed to train up specialty units - like our SRT.
 
The performance of the round for its stated purpose is pretty good. The price is insane and the 10yd limiting factor could be a liability.

With the plethora of sensible rounds that perform excellent in gel and do not have the range limitation or carry the cray-cray cost, I see no reason for them.

Thank you for posting all those gel tests C0untzer0! I hadn't seen those. I have #1 buck in my 870 and the reloads in the sidesaddle are Hornady low recoil OO TAP. The Winchester Super X slug performance was great, I', gonna have to grab some of those.
 
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