New Machined Aluminum Paper Cartridge Formers

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by arcticap, Mar 10, 2021.

  1. Shortgrub

    Shortgrub Member

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    Thanks Kid. I wanted to see that,
     
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  2. whughett

    whughett Member

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    # Theoutlawkid:
    Just read that thread , these are primitive in comparison. ;) 52602978-E82E-48CB-9639-165734C6FF5E.jpeg
     
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  3. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Nah im sure yours work great too. What matters is that they function. Im just a little OCD and like to add a bit of "art" to my projects. As my moms marine husband (my step father) always says when working..."attention to detail!"
     
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  4. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Also i prefer straight walled cartridges. Ive pushed a tapered conical into a clear pipe (plastic cigar package) and you can see how the paper crunches and sandwiches powder in between paper and that doesnt help the powder to burn in one complete instance and will burn after the ball/bullet has left thr barrel which does the shooter no good....and bunched up crumbled overlapped paper doesn't burn well. So the straight walled cartridge is my solution. I think i explain it in the post or somewhere on the forum.
     
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  5. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    For simplicity, hard to beat the dowel mandrel/ cigarette paper cartridge. Form on dowel, twist end, snip off tail, fill with powder and filler, top with a .450 card wad and a dollop of lube...

    1A7E008E-49C4-4D78-8428-969F7AFFE65E.jpeg 1B1CEE9D-8B3F-407D-9EAF-AE166E471BCF.jpeg
     
  6. dickydalton

    dickydalton Member

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    I just fired some today with the paper nitrated by me. 1858 Uberti 36 cal with 17 grains of Swiss 3F under 125 grain conicals. All worked fine and not a bit of paper left.
     
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  7. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Can you describe how you did the paper, type of papers, nitrate used and procedure. I’d like to give it a try.
     
  8. dickydalton

    dickydalton Member

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    I don't know what the paper is it came in the kit from Guns of the West in the kit I bought. I used their glue and directions and there was a ton of paper after i shot that i had to get out of the chambers to reload. I went online search and and a video of Mark, from Eras Gone Bullet Molds was first up. I dissolved Spectracide stump remover granules in waster per his instructions and used the same paper. It's a bit of a chore after the papers dry but it sure worked. There was zero residue in the chambers of my Uberti 1858 36 after firing. I must say that I am very disappointed in this revolver though. The caps jammed it every shot. Possible Shop is out of Treso nipples so I ordered so Slix shot elswhere.
     
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  9. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Guess I’ll hit HD tomorrow and pick up some stump remover. :)
     
  10. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Ok, what happened to curling papers? I've got a buddy out west that's been making cartridges for years with curling papers and has no problem with leftover paper.

    For the record, I shoot "metallic" cartridges . . . much easier!!! Lol!!!

    Mike
     
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  11. whughett

    whughett Member

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    And a darn sight faster to make. :rofl:
    I’ve used curling papers also. Same results.
    I think it’s the glue I’m using.
     
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  12. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    I use curling paper. Actually i use both curling paper and RAW rolling paper. For an end "cap" to the base of my cartridges i use hair curling paper disks and rice paper disks..just depends on which style im working on.
     
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  13. 44 Dave

    44 Dave Member

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    Have used nitrated coffee filters, now use curling papers. Curling papers don't absorb enough nitrate to make a difference There is a small bit of paper left. but have run 48 rounds with out it building up to be a problem.Try to keep the glue to a minimum..
    Some guns are worse than others. My pair or Uberti '60 Armies have sharp step in the chamber down about where the bolt notches are. My Euroarms Rem.blasts out best.
     
  14. brewer12345

    brewer12345 Member

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    Stump remover is potassium nitrate, which makes up the bulk of the mix to make black powder.
     
  15. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    For any of those interested in my failed experiments...nitrating the paper didnt help. It burnt more like a slow fuse, in fact it burnt slower side by side next to the same unnitrated paper and made more residue than standard paper. It also made gluing difficult and in some cases almost impossible..or the glue would fail later. Id recommend just sticking to plain ol' paper. My paper of recommendation is hair curling paper, thin cigarette rolling paper made from rice or hemp, and coffee filter paper. You can use thicker rolling paper such as TOPS or Bugler papers but they are thicker and MAY leave paper behind depending on method used to make them. My preferrence is hair curling paper and RAW rolling paper (especially due to the tan color, looks better in my opinion). Years ago i showed folks on this forum pics of my old set up using RAW rolling paper and lube inside of a chapstick tube to rub on the bullet...now someone sells a kit using the same exact items. I like to pretend i was the one who showed them this trick and inspired/motivated them to share it with more of the black powder community....or it was an obvious and easy idea anyone could have come up with Lol. i enjoy helping and sharing my successful and failed experiments with the rest of the community and hope it can help/inspire others or atleast keep them from wasting their time with mistakes i made.
     
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  16. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    How to Make Nitrocellulose Shellac, Lacquer or Glue

    I edited my post on page 1 that mentioned the wrong way to make nitrocellulose glue.
    Dithsoer and Ginormous described how to properly make nitrocelllose shellac or lacquer which is very much like a waterproof glue that was used to coat paper cartridges with.

    "I've been making paper cartridges for years but an additional step that I take is to "paint" each finished cartridge with nitrocellulose shellac. This can be easily made by dissolving a spoonful of regular smokeless powder in several spoonfuls of acetone (fingernail polish remover). Depending on the powder used it may take more or less acetone. Once I have a thin syrup I store it in a sealed glass container (the acetone evaporates quickly). Using a small childrens paintbrush I just paint each cartridge with a thin coat of it. Not only does this ensure reliable ignition without the use of a nipple pick, the paper is completely consumed. As an added benefit it also waterproofs them. I have been doing this for years and have never had a failure to fire." --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/paper-cartridges-step-by-step-photos.144094/page-5#post-2810616

    He also mentioned other details about it in other posts.
    1. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/nitrocellulose-laquer-and-cigaratte-paper-cartridges.437495/#post-5450154
    2. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/nitrocellulose-laquer-and-cigaratte-paper-cartridges.437495/#post-5450724

    Ginormous posted:
    "12.5% IMR 4227 to acetone by weight NC lacquer" --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/nitrocellulose-laquer-and-cigaratte-paper-cartridges.437495/page-2#post-5463953

    Also:
    1. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/nitrated-paper-cartridges.474086/#post-5899068
    2. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/nitrated-paper-cartridges.474086/#post-5896615

    Keywords - Nitrocellulose glue, nitro glue
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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  17. Captain*kirk

    Captain*kirk Member

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    I use one of @Shotgun Dave's paper cart formers. Works great! I have yet to shoot any of them yet due to the pandemic/range closures.
     
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  18. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    There's some photos and videos still posted about rolling paper cartridges among the 10 pages of this thread. --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/paper-cartridges-step-by-step-photos.144094/

    Also of interest is a post indicating that:

    The appendix of the Army's manual of Cavalry Tactics from 1860 contains "A Manual for Colt's Revolver" that specifies that the paper cartridge be torn open and the powder poured into the chamber before ramming.
    Here's the actual commands, click on "Click to expand." --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/paper-cartridges-step-by-step-photos.144094/page-10#post-7686525
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  19. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    I use curling paper. Some - but not all - cigarette papers are treated to retard combustion, so I stopped using them. (I was never able find out for sure which brands were treated and which were not.)

    I do nitrate my curling papers with stump remover and hot water. I find it helps reduce the amount of paper left behind. I haven't had any trouble gluing them. I use Elmer's stick glue.

    I use the wood and plastic form sold by capandball. It has made about a thousand so far, and does show a little wear, but not enough to cause any problems yet. I like the tapered shape as it ensures that the paper ruptures when rammed home, exposing powder directly to the flash. I use a punch to cut out hundreds of little circles from the nitrated paper, which are then glued to the base of the cartridge. This works better for me than do the twisted tails, which occasionally impede the flash and which also sometimes come open during storage/transport/handling.

    I have ordered one of the Etsy/MesaWinds aluminum formers for .36 conical (thanks to #arcticap for the link) and will report back with results.

    full.jpg
     
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  20. ShotgunDave

    ShotgunDave Member

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    Count me in the curling paper camp. I get near 100% complete burn. There is the odd one that leaves a small ring of paper in the chamber, but that's probably my fault for using too much glue. I think that is the key, using the right amount of glue. Use too much, and it doesn't burn.
     
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  21. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

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    The aluminum formers are a solution in search of a problem. Nothing wrong with the traditional wooden dowels.
     
  22. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Ram off 48 more paper cartridges while watching tv last evening and fired them this morning in the Rogers and Spencer. No problems with ignition or performance and this time didn’t bother with checking for unburned paper. It’s not causing any issues, yet, so I just carried on. The advantages at the range loading with paper cartridges offsets the time it takes to make them. I have used curling papers for cylinders and end caps as well as RAW cigarette paper. When my current supply of RAW papers is gone I’ll give the curling paper another run.
    like .38Special I ordered a former from MesaWinds also but for the ROA as it uses a 457 ball.
    4795A2C4-16A5-4821-AFF1-16CD6F5C61A5.jpeg
    Not related but also gave this bad boy it’s first range trip. 45Colt with TrailBoss powder but future outings will be with 2F and a 230 grain round nose bullet.
     
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  23. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    Nice. Love the Schofield. Use lots and lots of lube, especially if shooting 2F.
     
  24. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    Depends on how much it is used, I think. As I mentioned, my wooden form is showing some wear. The hole has expanded somewhat and now requires a slight bit off additional attention to get everything just right. Not a big deal, but I wonder how it will appear in another decade or so. And even that is not a big deal, as shelling out an additional thirty bucks every ten years is not exactly the end of the world - but I do like "forever" tools, and perhaps this new aluminum version will be one.
     
  25. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Had not thought of that. Typically the 45 cartridges in BP are set up with a felt wad over an over powder card.
    The bullets are tumbled lubed with Alox before and after sizing.

    I thought 2F might be more historical and I have it on hand. I have lots more 3F however.

    What’s a historical 45caliber bullet design for the Schofield.?
     
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