Ever since Alabama lost the ability to use our concealed pistol permit in place of NICS I get delayed every time. Its getting old to have to wait 4 days every time I purchase a firearm. Looking on their web site the only option is to file a Voluntary Appeal and obtain a Unique Personal Identification Number (UPIN). I have read different opinions on if this actually helps or not but no real first hand experience. Does anyone have actual experience on obtaining a UPIN and does it actually help to prevent delays?
NICS Delayed has anyone actually tried a UPIN?
- Thread starter REB
- Start date
I filed a Voluntary Appeals Files and was issued a UPIN back in 2005 due to being a victim of identity theft. My "dear" brother stole my ID and used my name as an alias.
The longest delay I had was in April of 2020 at the height of the plandemic. That delay was 1 1/2 hours.
The only other time I have had any issues is when store clerks forget to give NICS my UPIN. I've had that happen once or twice, but it was caught right away and I was able to pick my firearms up the next day.
I don't know how long it currently takes to get a UPIN but it is definitely worth it if you constantly get delayed or denied. Just remember that with a Voluntary Appeals File, they do keep a record of successful transactions/background checks.
The longest delay I had was in April of 2020 at the height of the plandemic. That delay was 1 1/2 hours.
The only other time I have had any issues is when store clerks forget to give NICS my UPIN. I've had that happen once or twice, but it was caught right away and I was able to pick my firearms up the next day.
I don't know how long it currently takes to get a UPIN but it is definitely worth it if you constantly get delayed or denied. Just remember that with a Voluntary Appeals File, they do keep a record of successful transactions/background checks.
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Anchorite
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herrwalther
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A permit was used in lieu of a background check in Alabama. FFLs would copy your permit and attach it to the 4473. The program only lasted a few months because an in-depth review showed some Alabama sherrifs were issuing permits without background checks. So the ATF put out a memo stopping the policy.
I was getting constantly delayed and even had a denial. So I got myelf a UPIN. Now my checks go through like a "regular" person. I am out of the shop, with firearm, in 30 minutes tops. Only problem the UPIN has ever gotten me was reading it to a store clerk that can't read my chicken scratch handwriting.
Anchorite
Member
Sounds like Alabama.
The system was in place for several years from 2016 to 2019. Its not uncommon as there are over 20 states with a permit or license that qualify as a NICS alternative.
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mstreddy
Member
OP, I have a common name - which, unfortunately, is shared with a couple of criminals and at least one on a watch list. I got a UPIN some years ago to avoid the delays, and even two denials that I had to appeal. This was back in 2002-3 time frame. With the UPIN, I've never had a denial of a multi-day delay. It does take my approvals more time than someone with unique names to get through, but it goes through. I'm in Florida, and the permit is also not a NICS alternative.
Now, getting back in to the country after overseas travel is always interesting, thanks to the jacknot on the watch list.
Now, getting back in to the country after overseas travel is always interesting, thanks to the jacknot on the watch list.
unspellable
Member
Delayed 3 out of 4 in Alabama in the 2008 - 2010 time frame. The one good one was 15 minutes. Delayed 2 out of 2 in Missouri in 20012 -2013. Each long delay was three days.
Loooong horror story about trying to find out why. Never did.
Got a PIN, used it once, 10 minute delay.
Loooong horror story about trying to find out why. Never did.
Got a PIN, used it once, 10 minute delay.
I'm not sure exactly who is responsible, but someone in Alabama isn't doing their job. With my carry permit here in GA I bypass all background checks. That ability lapsed briefly a few years ago. Someone in state government wasn't notifying the proper authorities when someone had committed a crime and no longer were allowed to possess a carry permit.
It only took a few weeks to fix the problem.
It only took a few weeks to fix the problem.
Missouri 5 year permits meet the standards so that we could bypass the NICS check but no one at the state level has done the proper paperwork for that to happen.
I did a search and it looks like it is taking 2 to 12 months to get issues an UPIN after filing for a Voluntary Appeals File.
In my case, getting an UPIN was the only way to keep from getting denied every time I tried to purchase a firearm. I successfully appealed every singe denial but it was a pain to go get finger printed and mail prints and an appeal letter off each time.
The two times I got told I was denied was when the clerks forgot to type my UPIN into the computer system. I got a call the next day saying I could pick up my firearm both times though. The first time someone at NICS caught the mistake and called the FFL. The second time was at Cabela's which happened to get audited the day after I got told I was denied. The auditor saw my UPIN on the 4473 and corrected things. Cabela's then called to say I could come get my pistol.
Other than the 1 1/2 hour delay back in April 2020, my backgrounds checks pretty much come back instantly as soon as the FFL submits the online form.
I did a search and it looks like it is taking 2 to 12 months to get issues an UPIN after filing for a Voluntary Appeals File.
In my case, getting an UPIN was the only way to keep from getting denied every time I tried to purchase a firearm. I successfully appealed every singe denial but it was a pain to go get finger printed and mail prints and an appeal letter off each time.
The two times I got told I was denied was when the clerks forgot to type my UPIN into the computer system. I got a call the next day saying I could pick up my firearm both times though. The first time someone at NICS caught the mistake and called the FFL. The second time was at Cabela's which happened to get audited the day after I got told I was denied. The auditor saw my UPIN on the 4473 and corrected things. Cabela's then called to say I could come get my pistol.
Other than the 1 1/2 hour delay back in April 2020, my backgrounds checks pretty much come back instantly as soon as the FFL submits the online form.
illinoisburt
Member
If you travel even just once a year, go get Global Entry. It's $100 for five years and includes TSA pre check. You go the front of the line at customs so 20 minutes and out is norm.
Since we went to constitutional carry here the NICS issue might be a selling point to boost license purchases so maybe give a call to Montgomery and inspire our critters with promises of revenue...
herrwalther
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It isn't up to the state, the ATF does not allow an Alabama CCP as a fill in for a NICS check. It is up to the county sheriffs to conduct thorough background checks in order for the ATF to reverse the decision.
DustyGmt
Member
It's very strange to me that I haven't heard more people belly ache about it but if you're like me, I have bought probably a dozen or more guns through an FFL and each and every time with the exception of 1 AR stripped lower, I have been delayed every time. I get cleared within 48 hrs but it essentially kills my ability and motivation to pick up something from a gun show. These guys usually pack up their tables and move onto the next one within a day or two.
Maybe that's the point. Idk. It sucks and the only gun show grabs I have gotten were handshake deals back when that was legal in VT before UBC was passed in 2018, not to mention you look nefarious when you show up and ask a vendor if he does things on a handshake basis.... can't win with these people.
Maybe that's the point. Idk. It sucks and the only gun show grabs I have gotten were handshake deals back when that was legal in VT before UBC was passed in 2018, not to mention you look nefarious when you show up and ask a vendor if he does things on a handshake basis.... can't win with these people.
illinoisburt
Member
My point was that Montgomery could find some carrots and sticks to encourage the Sheriffs to make the grade. Right now the number of permits is falling so there isn't much incentive for the locals to step up their game. Less money doesn't encourage more work.
Jim Watson
Member
I live in Alabama.
I only bought one gun during the period that my permit was accepted.
I have not been delayed or denied on any sale before or after.
I did get held up on a security clearance due to a punk showing as failing to appear in court under the same name. Never mind they had my name, address, phone number, SS number, fingerprints, and picture. It took a push by upper management to get a thorough check made.
I only bought one gun during the period that my permit was accepted.
I have not been delayed or denied on any sale before or after.
I did get held up on a security clearance due to a punk showing as failing to appear in court under the same name. Never mind they had my name, address, phone number, SS number, fingerprints, and picture. It took a push by upper management to get a thorough check made.
What really needs to happen is the state to take permits away from the sheriffs and run the program from the state level like most other states. One big problem with this in the past was the pistol permit fees were a slush fund the sheriff's could spend any way they wanted. I would imagine since constitutional carry was passed this revenue has gone down. A lot of people probably still get a permit for travel purposes, I personally have a non resident Florida license for travel purposes.
That is not always a good idea either.
When Missouri first passed its CCW laws, the state issued the permits and you had to go to the DMV to get your CCW on either your drivers license or a non driver state ID. The issue back then was all that information was released to the federal government without permission. Missouri has since changed its laws so that no information can be released. The County Sheriff's offices now issue all CCW permits so that there is NOT a state wide data base per the law.
Stevie-Ray
Member
With our fearless leader, we have gone back to having to get purchase permits, even with a CPL. So far, even with the extra hoops, it's been relatively painless. Gotta be the county though-I wouldn't expect this from Wayne or Oakland.
Riomouse911
Member
In Ca it’s a ten-day wait no matter what, and the law states that the state DOJ can drag it out as long as 30 days with no explanation or recourse.
When I bought a couple of Rugers from Buds during March 2020 (the start of the Covid shutdown), it was roughly 22 and 25 days for them to be OK’ed for pickup, IIRC.
I haven’t even had a parking ticket in the past 20 years, so I called the DOJ after about 15 days had passed inquiring about the delays. I was told that no one was in the offices and everything was being pushed out to the maximum number of days.
Once the madness eased it is back to waiting ten days per gun.
If I was subjected to regular delays like the OP, or had an identity that was stolen or matched some nefarious crook, I certainly would get a UPIN to smooth the process. Nothing is worse than being told, “No!” with no explanation as to why.
Good luck @REB , let us know if the delays stop after getting your UPIN.
Stay safe.
When I bought a couple of Rugers from Buds during March 2020 (the start of the Covid shutdown), it was roughly 22 and 25 days for them to be OK’ed for pickup, IIRC.
I haven’t even had a parking ticket in the past 20 years, so I called the DOJ after about 15 days had passed inquiring about the delays. I was told that no one was in the offices and everything was being pushed out to the maximum number of days.
Once the madness eased it is back to waiting ten days per gun.If I was subjected to regular delays like the OP, or had an identity that was stolen or matched some nefarious crook, I certainly would get a UPIN to smooth the process. Nothing is worse than being told, “No!” with no explanation as to why.
Good luck @REB , let us know if the delays stop after getting your UPIN.
Stay safe.
dogtown tom
Member
dogtown tom
Member
It's a great idea if you want your state firearm permit to serve as an exemption to the FBI NICS check.
Alabama enjoyed that exemption until ATF and the FBI found out they weren't following state law.
Missouri CCW doesn't meet the requirements to be an exemption to the Brady Law.
Just a suggestion here.It's a great idea if you want your state firearm permit to serve as an exemption to the FBI NICS check.
Alabama enjoyed that exemption until ATF and the FBI found out they weren't following state law.
Missouri CCW doesn't meet the requirements to be an exemption to the Brady Law.
But if you are going to quote others, make sure you quote the correct reply. I didn't say anything about whether the Mo. 5 year permit does or does not meet the NICS requirements or not. That might help others from possibly getting confused.
dogtown tom
Member
I did quote what I wanted to quote....you are confused as to why.
REB said: "What really needs to happen is the state to take permits away from the sheriffs and run the program from the state level like most other states."
You wrote: "That is not always a good idea either."
REB's comment is obviously addressing the fact that Alabama sheriffs (who issue their states permits) aren't following state law. By not following state law, those sheriffs caused Alabama to lose its exemption to NICS. REB's idea being the state would do a better job and Alabama could regain its exemption.
Again, explain how Missouri's system is a better idea than REB's.
It is simple. Missouri's statutes (laws) were changed to keep our personal information from being released to the federal government.
An after talking with people that were personally involved with getting CCW passed and then getting our permits change from 3 years to 5 years, YES our 5 year permit would meet the requirements to bypass the NICS check if the state government would follow through with getting things approved.
Again, the above statement came directly from people that were involved with changing our state laws.
