No such thing as "utterly reliable".....is there?

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Hokkmike

Hokkmike

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I had this discussion with a member via PM's earler, but also had an interesting conversation with my local gun dealer.

I went into a local gun shop. The service is good, the prices low, and the atmosphere is very casual. I told the owner that I was hoping someday to find an utterly relaible semi auto. He kind of smiled that all knowing smile that is borne from experience, smirked a little, and said - "whatever that is - you tell me!" He went on to explain that all semi autos react differently to various loads and brands of ammo, have parts that wear out, and even react differently to the way they are handled, cleaned, etc., by different shooters.

In other words, at any time for a myriad of reasons any semi auto can let you down.

In my experience as a shooter (I am older than most of you) the only semi auto that I have ever fired without a failure, except when I failed to properly seat the magazine all the way, has been the lowly Bersa Thunder .380.

I have fired Springfields, Colts, S&W's, Steyrs, Sigs, Rugers, Beretta's, and etc., etc., all of which, at times, have inexplicably let me down. Maybe I am too much of a perfectionist but I find that disconcerting. Fortunately, I am not in a position where I have to rely on one of these things on a regular basis to protect life and limb. MOST of the time I would have been OK.

Almost wants to make me go to the revolver except for the fact that the semi auto pistol is the most fun to shoot and best looking gun, on a par with a great classic bolt action, that there is. I absolutely LOVE these things.

Well, I guess the search for perfection continues. Maybe I need an attitude adjustment. I am very jealous, and sometimes a little doubtful, of some of you who claim to have 10K rounds with no failures of any kind. Your guns are my shooting idols!

There is no such thing as "utterly reliable", is there?
 
Hmmm, I'm very surprised by this post. I don't know you, how often you shoot, or how you treat your firearms, but I have a couple of Sigs with no failures after a few thousand rounds. I wish I could say the same for the XD I ow, but I can't. I have a Sig P226 40 S&W and a Sig P239 40 S&W that have zero failures. I've had bas ammo a couple of times and once I had a failure that was proven to be 100% user error, but never have these two firearms failed to do their part.

Now, I baby all my firearms. They are cleaned very well, always lubed, and I store them properly.

I've let my P226St go without cleaning for a few months just to see what the effect would be and it still kept trucking.
 
All machinery and electrical equipment can and does fail.

I've had hundred thousand dollar helicopter parts and equipment fail me the first time out.

In firearms, if I'm sure enough to bet my life that the gun, laser, scope, etc, that it PROBABLY won't let me down when I need them, than I call them reliable.

The last thousand rounds that you fired without a problem aren't important. What's important is will the gun empty the next magazine and there's no way to know that until you try.
 
They all fail. Some more then others. All require maintenance for sure.
Revolvers are famous lead spitters and if used a lot will fail sooner than a Glock I have found.

;)
 
Revolver...autoloader....both machines made by humans. So that in of itself makes it almost impossible to have a perfect firearm. I have a sig226 and a CZ75 PCR and a colt trooper. All have had a failure of some sort. The key is to keep the parts clean and replaced when needed. Of all my handguns...I would grab my CZ first in a vital situation.

The quest of perfection/reliability is something I think we all would like to find. But I have not found it yet. To many variables involved to make a perfect wepon IMO.

Take care and good shooting.
 
The only man made device I have ever seen that I might admit approached utter reliability was a paperweight.

Everything else fails. This is why they make multi-engine aircraft that can fly on one engine, watchdog timers for critical electronics, and people carry backup guns.
 
Well...I've got a pair of early 1991A1 Colts that I use for beaters that have seen over a quarter-million rounds collectively over 16 years that have had maybe a dozen malfunctions between'em. Of course, there's been the occasional problem to crop up once in a while, but nothing that prevented the guns from feeding, extracting, or ejecting. Loose plunger tube that required restaking...An occasional grip bushing...One broken slidestop that caused failure to lock on empty...Worn out springs, etc. Things like that.
 
My S&W 659 has only had 2 failures in ~30,000 rounds - both in the same box of crappy ammo - not the gun's fault IMO. My revolver (model 642) once failed to ignite a round under the hammer. Turned out it was a poorly seated primer - the first hit from the hammer pushed it in and barely dented it...second pull set it off. The 642 has less than 3000 rounds through it i'd say. Just goes to show; auto or revolver, either one, you're still relying on the ammunition to be flawless.
 
The only handgun that I own, or have owned, that I could honestly describe as "utterly reliable", would be the S&W 3913.

That little single stack 9mm ate everything I fed it, worked when filthy, was tack driving accurate, and provided more bang for the buck than any firearm I've ever owned.

Of course, like an effing idiot, I sold it. TJ
 
If it is mechanical, it either has failed or will fail! To find an infallable device you must first find an infallable manufacturer,use infallable materials and perfect maintainance. Now go find the perfect ammo....
 
LOL Thaddeus Jones - I almost sold my 659. Luckily i had a flash of sanity before it walked out the door!
 
those who say revolvers never fail have not had a primer flow back into the firing pin bushing and freeze the cylinder. with proper maintenance and ammunition these failures occur at a much lower rate but as with any mechanical part, nothing is perfect.
 
As long as I clean and wipe down my S&W M&P after I use it every time, it has been "utterly reliable". Maybe it suffers from the same issues as the M16. Is there a semiauto handgun equivelent to the Ak-47? Maybe. But reliable is as reliable does, or so I've heard.

Oh, and my M&P does not ramp certain hollow points very well. So, correct ammo matters.
 
Look at it this way, the space shuttle is probably the most scrutinized, heavily spec'd piece of equipment on this planet; and it has occasional mishaps. I think the point of your post is that yes, some mfgr's & pistols are better than others....:)
Before someone mentions that this is like "apples to oranges"; it's no different than comparing the vehicle "break-in" period to that of a pistol.:rolleyes:
 
gtmtnbiker98 - Actually there is. I once crossed a river in France on a bridge that loaded up like a ferry and then was "pulled" across by cables. The cars were emptied, the "bridge" reloaded with cars, and the process began again. It would have been much simplier to simply build a bridge. And, I think some cars are over engineered with unnecessary options.
 
I have at least four semi-autos that have been "utterly reliable" -- thus far.

No need to restate what others have said (all mechanical equipment will inevitably fail at some point) ... but I was pondering this question and realized that I have owned a Taurus PT-92 since 1991 that has probably seen upwards (or over) 20K rounds through it, and I cannot recall one, not one, single malfunction of any sort, ever. The beater SIG 226 has to be over, or approaching 10K rounds -- never malfunctioned, not once. The trusty old Beretta 92FS, ditto. And the ol' Russian Makarov ($129 new at Ace Hardware in 1996) -- yep, utterly reliable -- so far. Hmm. Perhaps I'm just really, really good at preventive maintenance on my firearms?

Though the $2700 1911 has hiccupped more than a few times in its lifetime.

I dunno.
 
I think the QC is the bigger issue. Based on the guns I have bought lately and the problems I have seen with new guns in the last few years, no one can possibly be checking them out all that well before they ship them out, let alone running a magazine full of ammo through them.
 
I have fired Springfields, Colts, S&W's, Steyrs, Sigs, Rugers, Beretta's, and etc., etc., all of which, at times, have inexplicably let me down.
Click to expand...

I noticed you didnt have GLOCK in your list :)

Mind want to give one a try.
 
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