Norinco 1911- Internals?

[defjon]

Checking out a Norinco 1911. I know that the frames and slides are made of good steel. What I am wondering about is the internal parts. Are they good strong steel like the Gi 1911s years ago? Since I'm in the US and they haven't been imported in ages I'm assuming they're pre MIM.

Just a note, I don't really have issue with MIM or cast parts, but I know a lot of guys like to swap out all the stuff to tool steel. If the Norc is gonna come with that anyway, its just kind of a bonus.

I will still probably put new springs in, depending on how it is at the range.

 

[CoRoMo]

No. Original Norinco small parts are not MIM. They are machined from solid stock. You just have to know if they are in fact the original internals because wise shooters have been known to hold onto those parts. They may even be harder than the old GI 1911s actually. IIRC, some of that steel was a bit soft, relatively speaking. Check the barrel though. Make sure it is in spec.

 

[rellascout]

Norinco internals are OK. They are somewhat crude and not always well finished. I cannot remember if they are cast or forged. They are not MIM. They are also not know for their hardness or durability.

The frames and slides are harder than most. Nork internal IMHO are some what soft. If I still had my Nork I would replace them all. YMMV

 

[Mad Magyar]

If you took a vote among those that rebuild 1911's from relatively low-priced guns: Norinco would be the choice due to the answers above...

 

[1911Tuner]

Norincos are all machined steel. No castings or MIM. The internals are good enough, but a bit rough and could benefit from a little judicious stoning and touch-up. The ones that I've used have been durable and have held up well over the long haul, but...as with any small part...they're service items and when the guns are in service...are generally replaced at regular intervals.

The barrels are trash. Another expendable service part. Figure on replacing it at 6,000 rounds if...IF...the vertical lug engagement is sufficient. It very often wasn't in the early ones...much better in the later ones. If yours is an early one, you'll beat the barrel lugs to gobbits within 500 rounds...or less.

The slides and frames are as tough as a chunk of pig iron, although rough finish machining is usually evident in most examples. It will vary widely. The #2 slide lug is usually mislocated a few thou too far to the rear. Fitting a new barrel will require adjustment to the barrel lug. .005 inch maximum material removal from the front face of the lug. Any more than that, and you're gambling.

In the 2 dozen or so that I've installed barrels in, I haven't had to remove more than .003 inch, and after a couple hundred rounds to finish seating the lugs...the results have been very good. Accuracy has ranged from good to outstanding, but I don't approach the job primarily with accuracy in mind. My goal is reliability and durability. Accuracy isn't much of a concern. If I get an inch at 25 yards, I'm as happy as a duck on a calm pond, and brag incessantly about it. If I get 2 inches, I'm happy with that, too. The accuracy is always better than with the OEM barrels in any event...and usually much better.

I have one that really will stay in an inch at 50 yards from a Ransom rest using good ammunition. It was purely an accident, and not due to any intent on my part. I guess the gods were smiling on me that day because I probably couldn't do it again in a hundred attempts. Blind squirrels and nuts, y'know...

 

[GCBurner]

Yep, they're tough, well-made guns. The quality of all of the parts seems to be at least as good as a GI Colt 1911A1, if not better. And when a part will eventually wear enough to need replacement, Colt 1911A1 parts are completely interchangeable.

 

[xr1200]

The only good parts on a norinco are the slide and frame, everything else is junk. Even though Wilson offers full house conversions on them, the slide and the frame are the only parts that are retained. All the internal parts and the barrel are very poor quality, even when comparing them to an RIA 1911.

The thing that makes them stand out from a lot of the cheap 1911 is that they use very hard good quality steel in the frame and slide, while all the other parts are crudely fit and finished.

There were some accurate norincos made but its usually a crap shoot 50/50 if you get a bad one or a good one.

 

[1911Tuner]

The only good parts on a norinco are the slide and frame, everything else is junk

Well...I wouldn't call'em junk. If they were junk, they wouldn't hold up as well as they do.
They can be pretty rough, but that's easily addressed.

The barrels are trash. No argument there. Even so, assuming good vertical lug engagement, they hold up to about 5-6k before the lugs are deformed badly enough to warrant replacement. Barrels are expendable, just like everything else except the frames. That's why the US military contracts provided for a few dozen part sets...including slides...for every finished pistol delivered.

 

[Jim Watson]

A guy here had one and related how the action pin holes were skew. So he just cut the sear nose and hammer hooks at the complimentary angle required to get full engagement and a trigger pull that suited him. Lemon or normal? I don't know.

 

[xr1200]

The problem with the norinco is in the fit and quality of the trigger and hammer assemblies. You can replace all the internal trigger parts with prefit nowlin parts for around $150. The cost of trying to polish and fit the internal parts ( if you can ) would not be worth the labor.

Another problem is the grip screw bushing and a different size then all other 1911's and ppl often end up replacing the bushings with over size ones in order to install new grips.

If some one gave you one it might be worth tinkering with , but its not worth paying $450-$500 for a used questionable gun.

These norinco's are actually still imported and sold widely in canada and new ones are selling for only $350.

 

[1911Tuner]

The cost of trying to polish and fit the internal parts ( if you can ) would not be worth the labor.

I haven't had a problem with stoning and cleaning up the OEM parts.

The problem with the norinco is in the fit and quality of the trigger and hammer assemblies.

With the ones that I;ve seen and owned...on the ones that actually needed trigger action work...the hammer hooks and sear crown have responded nicely to trigger work. Of course, I don't do 3-pound match-grade trigger jobs. 5 pounds...clean and smooth...is fine. Even 6 is okay by me, as long as it's not gritty and creepy.

Another problem is the grip screw bushing and a different size then all other 1911's and ppl often end up replacing the bushings with over size ones in order to install new grips.

Never had a problem replacing the grip panels on any of mine or any I've worked on with the OEM bushings. Always a simple one-for-one swap. Nary a problem.

Of all the ones I've been involved with...and there have been several...I've only encountered one that didn't run right out of the box. I rehabilitated it, and it's now doing yeoman service in the great state of Tennessee. The guy refuses to part with it.

You must have seen some oddball Norincos...the likes of which I've never seen, heard tell of, or stepped in.

 

[amd6547]

I found a Norinco unfired, new in the box, for $450...and I am happier with it than the Rock Island I was intending to buy. It is in the 505,XXX range.
I have only put about 75 rounds through it so far (winter in Ohio and an outdoor range), but my initial impression is very good. Trigger pull out of the box is service grade-fine, function was perfect.

 

[easyrider604]

Good feeling to read 1911Tuner's posts. He made me feel a lot better about my Norkies. BTW I am Canadian and Norkie 1911s are plentiful, inexpensive and lately have come from the factory with decent beavertails, sights and such.

The trigger action is acceptable but far from match grade. I just might order a sear jig and try my hand at a trigger job.

 

[mister2]

If the pre-70-series Colt is an honest gun, I would call the older Norinco an honest, though inferior, imitation. Like it or lump it, it tries to stay true to the original 1911A1 design. Level of fit and finish are the same inside and out, no surprises either way. I like it.

 

[Deanimator]

1. Thoroughly function check the gun, checking for things like hammer follow and disconnector failures.
2. Totally strip the gun and check for burrs, rust, etc.

I bought my Norinco from a friend. As you noted the major components are first rate. The internals were despicable junk. I was having a following problem. When I removed the mainspring housing, I found that the leaf spring was BRIGHT red with rust. I think it was totally bare metal, unlike a blued commercial or parkerized military part.

I would advise that you take it to a reliable gunsmith and have him check it out. Have him replace any out of spec, defective or damaged parts. The amount you spend won't even come near the price difference between the Norinco and the next cheapest new M1911. You'll end up with a first rate gun at an excellent price.

I carry my Norinco frequently.

As an aside, if it has the original plastic "GI" grips, ditch them IMMEDIATELY. The first time I cleaned my gun, I flushed out the grip frame with Shooter's Choice spray cleaner. I went to put the frame down and couldn't! The spray had melted the grip to my hand! It was apparently made out of something akin to polystyrene. I replaced mine with Ajax fake ivory grips.

 

[1911Tuner]

That's not rust. It's a copper wash. They're all like that.

Uh...If you still have those junk internals, I'll pay shippin' on'em.

 

[amd6547]

Yeah, I have heard that "leaf spring covered with rust" line several times in my net research.
When I got my Norinco, I noticed right away that the grip safety wasnt being pushed out by the spring sufficiently.
I took off the mainspring housing and immediately thought "oh, theres that rust on the leaf spring"...But I could tell it wasn't rust when I handled it...I lubed it and gave the grip safety spring a bend outward, reassembled everything, and all was right.
While I didn't fully strip the action, what I could see of the internals looked pretty good to me.
I replaced the plastic grips with some cocobolos I had right away.
I probably will just shoot this pistol as is and see if the trigger improves. Really, Im happy with it as is. If the barrel dosnt experience the peening problem, I may not do anything at all to this Nork, but shoot it.
Oh, and by the way, Deamnimator, I see you are from Rocky River...hello from Fairview Park!

 

[Jim K]

I found that a lot of the criticism of the Norinco, at least at the beginning, was purely political. It was made by those pinko, commie, murderers who shot our boys in Korea, etc., etc. So it was junk, badly made, soft, broke all the time, etc., etc., because it was made by those pinko.... and on and on. I decided to see. I was able to get some ball ammo at a very good price and put 8500 logged rounds through one, with NO failures of any kind. Yes, the Chinese are pinko, commie, etc., but they made a good pistol.

(Not to mention that our politicians sold out the country to them so they could stay in office.)

Jim

 

[CoRoMo]

+1 Keenan

A very good gunsmith in my parts about threw me out of his shop when I asked him to check the barrel on a Norinco that I had just bought. He doesn't know a whole lot about these pistols, but he's a good gunsmith otherwise.

 

[1911Tuner]

My expereinces with Norincos that I've owned pretty much mirror Jim's. Aside from the early models with bad barrel fit...insufficient vertical lug engagement and the resulting early destruction of the upper barrel lugs...they've all worked and they've all been solid, serviceable pistols.

But...After 8500 rounds, ya might wanna drop a NO-GO gauge in that chamber, Jim. Underneath that hard chrome plating is a barrel that's not much tougher than cold rolled steel. Even with 85%+ vertical engagement, they deform pretty quickly, and headspace on new Norincos tends to be a bit...liberal...if you get my drift.

 

[rellascout]

When you could get these for under $350 they were worth buying up. These days where it is hard to find one under $500 and you are looking at a barrel within 5,000 to 7,000 rounds.

At that price it is easier to get a Colt keep the barrel and build up from there. IMHO

 

[1911Tuner]

Well...as to that...

The average buyer probably wouldn't fire 5,000 rounds through one in a lifetime. Hard for active shooters to grasp that 5,000+ rounds a year is the exception instead of the rule.

Like the man told me:

5% of the shooters are burnin' up 95% of the ammunition that gets sold. Most people who buy a gun don't shoot more than 3 or 4 boxes a year.

 

[rellascout]

Well...as to that...

The average buyer probably wouldn't fire 5,000 rounds through one in a lifetime. Hard for active shooters to grasp that 5,000+ rounds a year is the exception instead of the rule.

Using that logic everyone should buy a RIA... for $350 because they will never shoot it out.

 

[1911Tuner]

Logic's got nothing to do with it. It's marketing. The Norinco was originally built for military contracts. The Chinese sensed a market elsewhere for inexpensive, no-frills 1911 pistols...and met it. The targeted market was the occasional shooter...the guy who wanted one like dear ol' dad carried ashore at Iwo and couldn't afford a Colt or an original...or the guy who just wanted a solid "Army .45" and didn't really intend to shoot all that much and didn't want to put a lot of money on the table.

If it's logic that we're talkin'...Why pay a thousand dollars for a pistol that you don't intend to shoot more than 200 times a year? The Norinco filled that niche nicely.

With one noteable exception...every one that I've been involved with has worked. They've fed ball and hollowpoints and lead SWC and they just keep on keepin' on. At an out the door price of 240 bucks in 1990...ya really couldn't go wrong. The dealers around here couldn't keep'em on the shelves.

As for RIAs...I notice that they sell pretty well too. Must be a market for'em.

 

[rellascout]

Logic's got nothing to do with it. It's marketing. The Norinco was originally built for military contracts. The Chinese sensed a market elsewhere for inexpensive, no-frills 1911 pistols...and met it. The targeted market was the occasional shooter...the guy who wanted one like dear ol' dad carried ashore at Iwo and couldn't afford a Colt or an original...or the guy who just wanted an "Army .45" and didn't really intend to shoot all that much snd didn't want to put a lot of money on the table.

If it's logic that we're talkin'...Why pay a thousand dollars for a pistol that you don't intend to shoot more than 200 times a year? The Norinco filled that niche nicely.

With one noteable exception...every one that I've been involved with has worked. They've fed ball and hollowpoints and lead SWC and they just keep on keepin' on. At an out the door price of 240 bucks in 1990...ya really couldn't go wrong.

You are making an argument so you are using logic even if you are using it poorly. ... In todays market for the occasional shooter there is no reason to pay more for a used Nork when you can get a NIB RIA for less. You even make a weak attempt at a stawman argument. I did not suggest a $1000 pistol I suggested a Colt, if you are going to build it into a custom gun, or if you need a basic I like to look at it more than shoot it then get a RIA. If you only going to shoot 200 rounds a year why spend the money for the Colt or a Nork? That is my point. You are so focused these days at tit for tat bickering that you missed my point.

If all you want is something that looks like a military 1911A1 with GI features why pay more the the hardness of the Nork frame and slide which is it's #1 selling point. If you are only shooting 200 rounds a year it will not matter. RIA offers the same feel with a better barrel IMHO and a lower price than a used Nork. Re-read my posts and check your calendar. Its not 1990 its 2011 and a Nork is going to run you $450+. NIB will be $550+ You will not even find them NIB in Canada for $240 so your point is moot. Yet another strawman.

Meet the 2011 Nork it has been renamed RIA.... enjoy.