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North Hollywood Shootout...

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by whm1974, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    You were already skipping school if you were still at home when it started, even if you lived in CA. ;) Could have caught it during lunch if you were on the east coast though.
     
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  2. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass Member

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    Lol, These days? Let's just say cop's do not get paid enough.
     
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  3. Choctaw

    Choctaw Member

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    In policing today we would be criticized for not sitting down with the suspects and discussing their motivations and feelings. Then if we couldn't solve our differences we would have to call in a social worker fresh out of college. When that social worker gets shot we will be criticized for not doing enough to protect him/her and for being mean to the suspects. Oh, and that APC is intimidating and really, really scary.
     
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  4. whm1974

    whm1974 member

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    APC? The only a Social Worker could have done any good is when both of those Perps were treated early on, like when they were childern or in their teens.
     
  5. Choctaw

    Choctaw Member

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    I was being sarcastic and speaking of policing in general. The current trend is to bench the police and send in social workers to diffuse dangerous situations. They also want to take away the equipment we count on to survive. Retirement looms.
     
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  6. entropy

    entropy Member

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    And has steel cored ammo. Steel core heavy ball 7.62x54R, even if it didn't penetrate their vest, would have taken them out of the fight, certainly long enough for for some head shots or to bum rush 'em and take 'em down or out.
     
  7. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    I wonder if it was by the officer that showed up with hearing protection (muffs) and shooting classes that I recalled seeing during the incident.



    The suicide was at virtually the same time he was shot from behind in the neck. He was doubly dead.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  8. Alex Clayton

    Alex Clayton Member

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    By one PD killed I mean the scum that Police (PD) killed at the car he tried to run with was shot feet and or ankles. He ran to the back of the car, a car with 4 very brave cops pulled up next to him to open up on him. By then they had heard the guys were apparently wearing soft armor so they went low. Then of course were not in any hurry to run over and try to see if the scum was OK, so he laid there and bled out. So of course some family wanted the courts to feel sorry for him. The one who they thought at first shot himself was bent over when he got hit with his own round. To be shot from behind the officer must have been quite close then and shooting down at him. Watching the film of it at the time was amazing. Have never bothered to see if it is still floating around on the web or if it was scrubbed. I certainly felt no remorse for either of them that they did not live so tax payers could support them for life.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
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  9. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Got it. Will Fix.
     
  10. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Not the most HD video I have seen. Begins around 9:15, perp #1 DRT at 13:32 from the Beretta 92 under his chin, still being shot at with lots of misses and at least one contact to head area (likely the spine shot that was “simultaneous” to his self inflicted shot) to 13:45 as the camera backs out, 19:45 is first sign #2 had had enough, physically “had him” at 20:24 and likely bled out by 23:00, due to the 20+ hits to his legs from under the car. Those few minutes didn’t matter though as paramedics don’t go into “hot zones” they didn’t get to his corpse for more than an hour, once it was known to be safe.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
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  11. Alex Clayton

    Alex Clayton Member

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    OK that refreshed my memory now. You can see him take the hit from behind alright. Good shot by whoever did that to end him quick
     
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  12. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Still pretty amazing that only the two bad guys died with 1100 rounds fired from them and 650 from the police, in the city, with all those cars still driving around.
     
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  13. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Life on the street is so random that most wouldn't believe it if you put it in a movie or other popular entertainment... at least that's what I found when guns came into play- one way or the other. The actual results of any armed confrontation are so un-predictable they're best avoided if at all possible... And just to add to the fun - things are rarely clear cut, black and white, when you look into them...

    The bad guy takes multiple hits and seems "bullet-proof", a victim is barely wounded but goes into cardiac arrest and is DRT... Gunplay has some bizarre results in real life (understatement...). The closest thing I ever saw in a movie to what actually can happen in real life was that silly movie Bonfire of the Vanities... but of course no city would actually elect a mayor like DiBlasio or have a city council like the one up in Minnesota - would they? Really?

    Glad I'm long out of police work and can't say how much respect I have for all the young men and women that still take on the badge...
     
  14. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Well, that parking lot is pretty big. Also, I dunno what they did about people already in the area but they closed off the neighborhood and weren't letting anybody in, including residents. We were listening to it on and off on the radio at work, I was worried that I wasn't going to be able to go home. Thankfully they lifted the restriction before then. (That location is one mile from my old house, and the gun store where they borrowed the long guns was down the block from me.)
     
  15. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    I suppose I was looking at it from a shooting range stand point, 1750+ rounds fired into any and all directions, not into an acceptable backstop, in such a populated area, it seems like a matter of luck only the two criminals died. I could have been over thinking my backstops all these years though but I am an inherently unlucky guy. I always need to be one step ahead of Mr. Murphy because it seems he’s only one step behind me with his law.

    Starting the video above at 16:15, it doesn’t look like a very blocked off area to me. He’s in more traffic at that point than most roads in my area when they are not blocked off. 16:35 he’s actually shooting at one passerby, ten seconds earlier he’s hitting another with his car.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
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  16. whm1974

    whm1974 member

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    Well said bad guys are expecting the possibility of getting shot, while the average persons are merely going about their Daily Activities of Life not expecting to encounter gunfire at all.
     
  17. Alex Clayton

    Alex Clayton Member

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    I had forgotten how bad a lot of that was until I got to watch it again. I had the same couple thoughts. Amazing that no one seems to have been hit with a stray. All that random fire in a VERY populated place. Also all the people seeming to have no clue anything was going on and driving right into it. I know it had to be a hell of a job for the Cops to try to close the entire place off and suspect a lot of that traffic may have been people who were already parked inside the area who then got in their cars and managed to drive right up to the action. Don't know if they are that unaware as in how would you not hear that going on, or if being were it was many thought something was being filmed???
    I got a kick out of it a while ago around here. Turns out Net-Flix was filming a scene for a movie that had a grab off the street scene. A bunch of local people were calling 911 thinking they were witnessing a crime going on. :D
     
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  18. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Wouldn’t be surprised if some of them were just trying to get around the blocked major road right in front of the bank, having no idea what was going on in the area.
     
  19. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    If I remember correctly there were significant injuries to officers on the scene - some of them life threatening and finally career ending wounds. I can understand the concern for bystanders but must admit my first concern would lie elsewhere...

    If anyone has info on the after action casualty report, please post it up. When I mentioned using a vehicle if necessary to end the threat I wasn’t kidding.
     
  20. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Is this what you want?

    https://documents.latimes.com/north-hollywood-shootout-use-force-report/
     
  21. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    The list of injuries sustained by the officers involved starts on page 16 of that document.

    Looks like about 10 officers were shot and maybe 4 civilians.

    At least two of the civilian shooting injuries were from the two perpetrators firing their weapons inside the bank in attempts to break into things or through things.

    I had always heard that there were reports of more than two suspects. One of the initial witness reports said there were three, another said six--police received both of these reports while the perpetrators were still in the bank.

    One other interesting nugget of information. According to the report, the guns taken from the gun store were never actually fired in the incident.
     
  22. TRX

    TRX Member

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    I was going to write a reply, but all the words are in the dictionary, so you can look it up there.
     
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  23. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    I have thought about this at length and thought back to a couple of new AR15s I have sighted in with original iron sights and others I have been present for others to do. At the distances most of the officers were trying to shoot (their perimeter) being in the neighborhood of 75-100+ yards, those rifles could have been anywhere from a few inches to nearly 2 feet off on their zeroes and there is no telling which directions they would have been off. I have never seen a new AR15 be spot on with its zero. It might have been best that they weren't brought into battle.
     
  24. whm1974

    whm1974 member

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    What would 12 Gauge 00 Buckshot fired at Point Blank range have done to the Preps? About the same as Slugs?
     
  25. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    That’s what made me wonder where the over 1750 rounds that were fired went. Anyone that knows an officer involved with training and qualification, has heard the stories but that’s a lot of officers responding, I suppose even 100 of them, in that department would be a small percentage of the dept.
     
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