CoRoMo
Member
How do you figure that?
There's really nothing that can be done to make it even a little bit more difficult.
Odd FTF transaction, and ethical question.
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How do you figure that?
There's really nothing that can be done to make it even a little bit more difficult.
Balog
Member
The issue is whether or not he currently uses drugs. If you disqualified everyone who has ever toked a bong from owning a gun, there would be a whole lot fewer gun owners. And let's not even get into the question of underage alcohol use, which is also a crime.
The last I heard from my mom, he is not currently using drugs. I disagree about him being a felon, but just never been caught. That goes against a lot of things in our justice system. How would you like to be judged like that? How would you like a cop to pull you over for a speeding ticket, only to tell you... well you were likely speeding at some point in your life, just never caught. It's ridiculous.
CoRoMo
Member
Case closed in my opinion. The only question now is whether he's got the money for the gun. Well, of course, I would also add that if, in my opinion, he's on the road to recovery, he has recovered. Just because he hasn't abused drugs since yesterday doesn't mean he's clean, but after going through rehab and his relatives believe he's clean, then he's clean.
Now continues the posters that say, "But only as far as you know" and "What if...", both of which apply to every person on the face of this Earth
SSN Vet
Member
try re-reading this with the color emphisis...
Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
I don't like the idea that the law doesn't seem to allow for someone to become a "changed man"... but it doesn't seem to.
Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
I don't like the idea that the law doesn't seem to allow for someone to become a "changed man"... but it doesn't seem to.
CoRoMo
Member
Thankfully of course it does NOT say:
Were you ever an unlawful user of, or ever have been addicted to...
Thankfully the law clearly allows for someone to clean up their life and get back into the gun owning crowd.
Were you ever an unlawful user of, or ever have been addicted to...
Thankfully the law clearly allows for someone to clean up their life and get back into the gun owning crowd.
Geneseo1911
Member
The problem is, regardless of the legality or morality of the transaction, it is likely to create a whole bunch of liability for the OP. I suspect any competent lawyer could make the case that the OP should reasonably have known about a potential problem. If the OP is willing to bet all his assets that his cousin won't get high and shoot a liquor store clerk, then by all means, have at it. For me, that is simply too much risk to saddle myself with. The cousin can buy a gun from someone willing to take the risk, or without knowledge of his past.
NavyLCDR
member
Just amend your Bill of Sale to include that he is signing to attest to the fact that he is not a prohibited person. An example of the statement is in 18 USC 922 (c)(1):
“Subject to penalties provided by law, I swear that, in the case of any firearm other than a shotgun or a rifle, I am twenty-one years or more of age, or that, in the case of a shotgun or a rifle, I am eighteen years or more of age; that I am not prohibited by the provisions of chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; and that my receipt of this firearm will not be in violation of any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which I reside.
Signature XXXXXXXXX Date XXXX.”
“Subject to penalties provided by law, I swear that, in the case of any firearm other than a shotgun or a rifle, I am twenty-one years or more of age, or that, in the case of a shotgun or a rifle, I am eighteen years or more of age; that I am not prohibited by the provisions of chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; and that my receipt of this firearm will not be in violation of any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which I reside.
Signature XXXXXXXXX Date XXXX.”
SSN Vet
Member
the note on the bill of sale kind of implies that he knows the guy has a drug problem and is trying to cover his a$$ with some kind of statement.
This is just the territory you get in with a FTF transaction. It's rare that you ever know anything about the person you are selling to. You check ID, and sign a receipt and that's all you can do. All I know is the guy seems to be off the junk, and with zero criminal history, that's good enough for me.
CoRoMo
Member
This, actually.
SSN Vet
Member
so where the legal eagle's will make their squak is debating "when" does an addict, ever stop being an addict.
I just got in contact with an aunt and two cousins who I haven't seen in >20 years. All the kids had major drug problems and one even took his own life in despair....
I was surprised that the older cousin described herself to me as a "drug addict" and then went on to tell me that she's been clean for 12 years. But she still attends Narcotics Anonymous meetings and considers herself an addict.
Now consider this... according to the EPA you can no longer exhail without assuming some liability for the dangerous polutant you are releasing into the air. Risk free and liability free life does not exist. We all make our personal decisions and live with the consequences.
Do you love your cousin and want to help him out... then go for it. There's likely a greater chance that you'll be arrested for having a ND and blowing a hole in the neighbors house than the law chasing after you for selling your cousin the gun. So are you going to give up shooting because it is so darn risky and exposes you to such liability?
jnyork
Member
Like everything else in life, if you need to think twice about doing it, dont do it.
General Geoff
Member
Seems that this would bar cigarette smokers, FYI.
texas bulldog
Member
morally, i would have no problem with it. as a staunch libertarian, none of my personal values would be violated by going through with the sale.
legally...depends. is he currently abusing or addicted to drugs? if so, he is a prohibited person and knowingly selling it to him would seemingly violate the law.
if you're concerned about the serial number getting traced back to you, then it would seem you have your answer. if you can do it with a clear conscience, i say go forward. if not (and it sounds like not), then it's a bad idea. your gut should rarely be ignored.
legally...depends. is he currently abusing or addicted to drugs? if so, he is a prohibited person and knowingly selling it to him would seemingly violate the law.
if you're concerned about the serial number getting traced back to you, then it would seem you have your answer. if you can do it with a clear conscience, i say go forward. if not (and it sounds like not), then it's a bad idea. your gut should rarely be ignored.
03Shadowbob
Member
Yes I would do it. He is not a felon. You are doing nothing wrong if your state allows private handgun sales without FFL.
maskedman504
Member
Why close the barn door after the horse is gone?
Don't do it. I have a close relative that I wouldn't trust with a gun for the very reason of a long, past history of drug abuse.The potential for a moment of weakness that could lead to gun violence is too great IMO. Even if the gun wasn't traced back to you, think how you'd feel if innocent lives were lost.
CoRoMo
Member
...isn't his second cousin.
Seriously, if I treated everyone as though they were just like someone in particular I knew, I wouldn't go so far as to speak to another human being.
Black Knight
Member
I'm going to take a different route on this. You say he has personal problems. I don't know what problems he has other than past drug use but they would give me cause for concern. Imagine that you sell him the gun and those problems turn out to much for him to handle. Would he be the type to turn the gun on himself in order to "solve" those problems or "end" his pain? If this happened how would you feel knowing he got the gun from you? It is up to you but personally I doubt that I would do it, at least at this time. Right now my stomach says no. If I knew the situation and person more than what has been stated here the answer may be different.
HOME DEPOT GEORGE
Member
I've been clean for a long time now mostly alcohol but also pain pills from a back injury years ago,went to treatment and still go to meetings and talk to my sponsor. How many people on this board went to Woodstock and grew up in the 60's smoking weed and using hallucinogenics. If all of the people who did that answered truthfully on the 4473 this board would be empty as no one would own a gun . I'm proud to be clean and sober and believe anyone with a drug and alcohol problem can turn their life around if they really want to. Now if you said he just got out of rehab for the 3rd or 4th time I wouldn't sell to him since he clearly isn't ready. JMHO
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