Officer attempts to intimidate Open Carry owner and fails

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A few points worth making:

The officer is either stupid or hoping that the man carrying was stupid. Asking for his permit? What was that supposed to accomplish? Even if the guy was stupid enough to think "oh crap, I need a permit? I must be doing something illegal" it wouldn't have accomplished anything. It's not like he could have confessed to a non crime. The officer was just being stupid.

The guy filming the video was stupid as well. He should have identified himself to the officer. Asking for an ID could be construed as asking him to identify himself, which he would be required to do.

Furthermore, the cop was involved with something else. Getting involved in that could be construed as interfering with police business. I don't know what he was trying to prove by doing that.
 
If police are allowed to trash your rights as a citizen, you can welcome in a Police State. We, as citizens, must vigorously exercise and protect our rights, or, like this cop believes, they no longer exist.

If you law and order servants trip over yourselves to provide ID that's not required, what won't you do to avoid "escalation" or making Mr. Cop a little frustrated?
 
If you law and order servants trip over yourselves to provide ID that's not required, what won't you do to avoid "escalation" or making Mr. Cop a little frustrated?
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I've provided ID that's not required. It's all in how the cop wants to present himself. They do have a job to do, and I don't feel that there's normally any reason to make that job harder. At the same time, I've had these same types of cops, who are friendly, who I would willingly show my ID, not make any issue of it whatsoever when I don't show my ID, because I don't have it.
 
i think the officer was justified in approuching the cameraman upon seeing the gun based on safety issues.

he could require identification and proof of age if the cameraman did not appear to be old enough for open carry

we can't tell if that is the case, as we don't ever see the cameraman.

asking if he was "being detained" while the officer was walking away was silly and could be viewed as escalation or taunting

the officer's flub was being unable to articulate why he wanted some form of identification and proof of age...he knew what he could request, he just didn't know how to put it into words.

i'm sure it differs from state to state, but most i am familiar with do not require you to produce ID, but they do require you to identify yourself if police have a reason to contact you...and depending on the reason, they can detain you while they confirm your information
 
No doubt the cop behaved inappropriately, no reason to act like a jerk, especially when facing a camera. However, you all should remembera few things:

Keep in mind that a cop can ask you anything, that doesn't mean you have to answer.

If the guy carrying the gun looks under age that's all the cop needs to question whether or not he's legal. It's a subjective call, it'll go in the cop's favor.

The guy with the camera did his best to escalate the situation by pressing the issue and following the cop after the cop had obviously dropped the issue. Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
Looks to me like a bad siuation all around. Neither the officer nor the camera man seemed to understand the law.
 
the guy with the camera did his part to perpetuate the stereotype of "gun nut"
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Gotta agree here. "Rights" or not, poking a hornet's nest with a stick is stupid. "But I have the "RIGHT" to poke whatever I want!" "Show me the law that says I CAN'T poke the hornet's nest!". "I have RIIIIIGHTS!"

Dumbass.
 
If the camera man looked too young to carry/own a weapon (and that's not profiling), the officer has a right to investigate to determine the correctness of his belief.
 
If the guy carrying the gun looks under age that's all the cop needs to question whether or not he's legal. It's a subjective call, it'll go in the cop's favor.
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I'm just not convinced that one would sell as probable cause.

In the video it shows that the officers INITIAL contact with the guy was NOT because of age, but simply the gun itself.

I don't think you can claim age as probable cause AFTER you've started questioning someone.

Sorry, that doesn't work.
 
I'm just not convinced that one would sell as probable cause.
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Well, what in your mind WOULD constitute probable cause? You really can't prove what the officer was thinking.
 
Well, what in your mind WOULD constitute probable cause?
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Watch the video again. The officer has no probable cause, he has no idea what he's doing other than freaking out at the sight of a gun.

He even puts his hand on his own weapon merely at the SIGHT of a firearm. That's poor training and panic. It's not officer safety or any of that nonsense.

He leads off with "Let me see your permit".

The cameraman, knowing there IS no permit needed replies "What permit"?

THEN the officer decides to go on the age thing.

That doesn't work. You can't just start listing off things til you hit one you like then claim that was your probable cause.
 
Looks like from this statement that he might just be considering age as an issue,
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In a state where a permit is not required to open carry, it's hard to sell that question "Let me see your permit" as a question about age, or a valid question at all.

It immediately establishes the officer as not having any idea what he's doing, and grasping at whatever he can think of.

That's why I believe that if this had gone anywhere that there's no way the age issue would sell as probable cause.

The officer then goes on to say "It's a state law to show ID when carrying a handgun". That's not true either.

The officer here hasn't the slightest idea what he's doing. The cameraman pushes his buttons because of it.

That might be stupid on the part of the gun carrier here, no doubt. But stupidity is not against the law. Cops on the other hand are required to do their jobs within many limitations and they can't randomly go outside of those limitations.

The cop eventually realizes he has no grounds at all which is why he walks away.

If he really felt he had any kind of probable cause why did he just give up and walk away?
 
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Well, if this went before a judge in the state of Texas, how do you think the judge would interpret the situation - from my view point or yours?

Just an informational side track: In the state of Alabama, it is illegal to carry a gun to a public demonstration (unless your a leo).

I'm ending my participation here; but, I'll repeat something I said earlier: Looks like neither gentleman was very aware of the law in this situation. If the officer had been, the camera man's ass would have been had.
 
Goes back to the double standard: It's illegal to lie to a cop, but the cop can lie to you as much as he wants. It's despicable.
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Yep, and like I say, that's why there is no probable cause here. The cop tries to intimidate the gun owner with stuff like "Show me your ID, it's state law when you're carrying a gun". When the gun owner calls his bluff the cop walks away.

If the cop had really been concerned about the age of the guy he wouldn't have simply left would he? Come on people.....

donato said:
I'm ending my participation here; but, I'll repeat something I said earlier: Looks like neither gentleman was very aware of the law in this situation. If the officer had been, the camera man's ass would have been had.
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Please describe what law was broken here.
 
Now for the flip side...

Cop responds to a call because he's charged with maintaining public order. It's his job.

Young guy...age unknown...injects himself into a potentially volatile scene while carrying a gun...thus making a ticklish situation even more ticklish. Right or wrong...he deliberately provoked a confrontation, and that's what it was about...not exercising his right to openly carry. He wanted a confrontation.

Pretty stupid thing to do, IMO. A time and a place for everything, and walking into a situation like that while carrying a gun while the cop is trying to contain it isn't one of them.
Sometimes these things can go badly wrong in quick time...regardless of who's in the right.

Rather like showing up at a fire carrying a jug of kerosene. Somebody is going to ask you what the blue bloody hell you think you're doing.

Just my 2% of a buck.
 
You figure it out. But, you'll first have to start thinking rationally.
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In other words you can't cite a law that was broken here.

And neither could the cop, which is why he walked away.

The gun owner was a complete jerk, no doubt.
 
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Just an informational side track: In the state of Alabama, it is illegal to carry a gun to a public demonstration (unless your a leo).
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Double standard #2.

Well, if this went before a judge in the state of Texas, how do you think the judge would interpret the situation - from my view point or yours?
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Judges always taking the word of a police officer over that of a private citizen - Double standard #3.
 
Proper conclusion

Here is how this confrontation SHOULD have ended:

Police Officer, returning to citizen: "Sir, I was mistaken and apologize for my intrusion. Have a nice day."

Citizen: "Apology accepted. Thank you."
 
The cop needs better training, cameraman needs to stop being a dick. The cop was obviously frazzled in this instance, the camera man was argumentative and had a gun. If I had the camera,I would have told him that I didn't need a permit but he was more than welcome to take my wallet out of my pocket to check id.The cop looks like in his nervousness he might get trigger happy.
 
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