Open Carry is Finally Getting Some Attention

[Shadow Man]

That was my question though...how do you know they don't care? Honestly, I'm just musing out loud here, I'm not trying to be argumentative Mags. You're welcome for the clarification, and for the record, I think you're right; stop it now before it hits somewhere that hurts us personally.

 

[Superlite27]

..."Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Starbucks Coffee Houses, and I did not speak out because I hated expensive coffee.
Then they came for the Bass Pro Shops, and there was no one left to speak out......."

Didn't Martin Niemoller say something to this effect?

What does the price a business asks for it's crappy coffee have anything to do with its stance on carying firearms?

Will those of you who "thpppppt" throw the raspberry and say "Who cares? I don't go there anyway" have the same reaction when the Bradys pressure your favorite business into banning you? What will it take then? Will you change your tune, or will it be O.K. for the rest of us to say, "That's O.K., we don't like that business anyway."

How many businesses you dislike will have to ban guns before one you do decides to?

All of a sudden, it'll be an important thing....then.

When will those of you get it? It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIER COFFEE!

It has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH YOUR FREEDOM TO CHOOSE to drink it (or not), to patronize that business (or not), to protect yourself in their stores.(or not)

If you do nothing...the freedom to even choose is gone.

Even though I don't like their snooty coffee, I sure do like the fact they're shrugging off the Bradys. There is more to be gained by supporting a business that sides with you into remaining with you, that trying to change a business that bans you into changing its policy.

You don't have to drink their coffee. But if you would like the freedom to do so at any time you choose, I would suggest positively reinforcing their behavior by thanking them.

Otherwise, you can just allow the anti's to effectively pester them into banning your butt. This may be fine for you, but what happens when this shows the anti's how well pestering works and they turn their sights on your favorite store?

Here is Starbuck's online "customer comment" form. I suggest a little time spent sending them a thank you for continuing to allow you to carry into their stores is a tiny little thing you could possibly be bothered with for a few minutes to help maintin your gun rights. After all, teling me about it isn't really doing much to keep you free. I already agree with you.

http://www.starbucks.com/customer/contact_forms.asp?nav=3e

Their customer service number is listed on their site as 800-235-2883 if you would like to thank someone in person for continuing to allow you the freedom to protect yourself in their business.

 

[MCab]

All the power of a SWAT team? For a handgun?
And none of the training? SWAT team aside, if these people knew how little police trained with their firearms it'd send their world upside down. Assuming that they are rational, of course.

 

[Gryffydd]

I don't patronize Starbucks at all since the CEO refused to make Starbucks coffee available to our troops saying he wouldn't support an illegal war or our troops who fought it.

Completely false, as Mags posted. Seriously, check your facts.

$5 cups of that stuff you can make yourself if you don't go crazy making it strong. AS several said at $0.50 a cup.

I hate fivebucks

Do you guys realize that if you buy the kinds of drinks that cost $5 at Starbucks from your typical mom & pop place they cost at LEAST as much? Starbucks does NOT charge $5 for a cup of coffee. They charge $1.30-$1.90 or so depending on the size. At least where I am, a decent cup of just coffee from anywhere else costs about the same amount. Yeah, you can get a $0.50 cup of coffee at the gas station or something, if you want to call that coffee. And naturally, making it yourself will always be cheaper....duh.

 

[kludge]

Over the past few months, more and more gun owners have been gathering at restaurants and coffee shops like Starbucks with guns strapped to their hips, intimidating fellow patrons.

Logical fallacies: appeal to fear, bare assertion fallacy (assumes facts).

Businesses can legally prohibit guns from being carried in their establishments – and so far, Peet's Coffee & Tea and California Pizza Kitchen have heeded customer concerns and barred the open carrying of guns.

Again, assumes facts. Perhaps the owners are anti-gun and didn't need any customer input to come up with the policy.

Logical fallacies: appeal to popularity/common practice, bare assertion fallacy.

But Starbucks is refusing to prohibit the open carrying of firearms in its stores, despite protests from loyal customers.

Does Starbucks not have loyal customers who carry guns? Perhaps Starbucks knows it has many loyal customers who carry. Perhaps the owners do not have an irrational fear of guns.

Perhaps you really mean, Paul, that they have ignored your requests?

Contact Starbucks to let them know that you want them to stand up for the safety of their customers and adopt a nationwide, gun-free policy in all Starbucks stores.

When you do so, remind them that as a result the only people with guns in their establisment will be criminals.

Logical fallacy: appeal to fear "for the safety of their customers".

Because of Starbucks' refusal, the Brady Campaign has teamed up with CREDO Action to tell Starbucks to keep guns out of its coffee shops.

The practice of packing heat in places like Starbucks is intimidating and could be potentially dangerous to our families and communities – and it must be stopped.

You need to read up on the legal definition of "intimidation".
Logical fallacies: appeal to fear "could be potentially dangerous", appeal to probability.

It's everyone's right to sit in a restaurant or coffee shop with their families without intimidation or fear of guns, either concealed or openly carried.

Actually it's the opposite, assuming that the landowners do not prohibit it, everyone has a constitutionally protected right to carry a gun. Again, logical fallacy: appeal to fear "without intimidation or fear of guns".

Under the law, Starbucks has the right to adopt a gun-free policy, with an exception for uniformed police officers. Such a policy can easily be implemented in most cases by putting up signs at store entrances.

Actually, they also have a right to refuse access to uniformed police officers carrying guns under most circumstances. But you undermine your own argument here, Paul. Your implied premise here is "police officers with guns are safe, but people with carry permits are not". You must now present evidence that permit holders on average have fewer accidental discharges than permit holders, otherwise your argument can not stand.

We need to tell Starbucks to bar guns in its stores. These individuals who have been carrying guns into Starbucks have all the firepower of a SWAT team, and none of the law enforcement training.

COOL!!! We get machine guns now!!! SBR's for everyone!!! And body armor!!!

Logical fallacies: Red herring/diversion, also appeal to fear and appeal to ridicule.

Are you seeing a pattern here?

Please contact Starbucks today!

Sincerely,

Paul Helmke, President
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

Yes, please do.

Sincerely,
kludge
(not a coffee drinker)

 

[Gouranga]

Hey...Personally, I feel intimidated by grown men in puffy pink sweaters. Anyone want to sign on for a ban?

I think we all have a right to drink coffee with our families without being attacked and abused by the brightness of their clothing or the utter intimidation of a grown man in such attire.

Right to not feel intimidated!? Who are they kidding? It would be laughable if they were not being serious.

 

[wishin]

Because of Starbucks' refusal, the Brady Campaign has teamed up with CREDO Action to tell Starbucks to keep guns out of its coffee shops.

The audacity of these people to tell Starbucks what to do! Whether any of us here frequent Starbucks or not, the right thing to do in the interest of RKBA, is to support Starbucks management in their stand. I have a feeling that unless Starbucks gets a deluge of letters, e-mails and phone calls praising their stance, they will eventually acquiesce to the pressure from the anti-gun crowd.

 

[jakemccoy]

Wow, here we have a simple and cheap way to oppose the Brady Bunch, and gun owners are talking about how they don't like Starbucks coffee, how the coffee is too expensive or how they don't like the atmosphere.

For crying out loud, go in there with your gun on your hip and buy a muffin. Then, post on the Brady site that you thought about them when you made your purchase. That's well worth the 3 bucks.

 

[jakemccoy]

I'm glad Paul Helmke is the Brady Bunch President. Every time I seem him on television, it seems like he's the kind of man who likes sleeping with teddy bears and playing with barbie dolls.

 

[Shadow Man]

Wow, here we have a simple and cheap way to oppose the Brady Bunch, and gun owners are talking about how they don't like Starbucks coffee, how the coffee is too expensive or how they don't like the atmosphere.

For crying out loud, go in there with your gun on your hip and buy a muffin. Then, post on the Brady site that you thought about them when you made your purchase. That's well worth the 3 bucks.

Right. So I'll send Starbucks a letter praising their stance against the Brady Bunch. I don't like the atmosphere, and will not be assosciated with it. For crying out loud, stop suggesting that I'm less of a 2A defender because I'm not dashing out to the local Starbucks (Which closed, btw. The only other one is over half an hour away. I'll write a nice letter.) to purchase their products as a show of support. Not only do I not like the atmosphere, but the Starbucks was directly related to several local small businesses failing over the last year. Big corporate chains driving away the customers of local family businesses gets under my skin, so I refuse to support Starbucks in any way.

Now, instead of ragging all over me and other THR members like me who choose not to support Starbucks (because, you know, we have a right to choose...), why not provide a link or an address so we can all send letters of appreciation to the Starbucks CEO, or try to figure out who will be next and get ahold of their CEO and say "Hey, don't do this to us." Something...oh, constructive?

 

[Dokkalfar]

Big corporate chains driving away the customers of local family businesses gets under my skin

The Underpants Gnomes (Harbucks)

Starbucks coffee is not that expensive, the only drinks that actually cost more than $2-3 are the specialty drinks with tons of stuff added. The coffee place in the community college near my house, Java City in SMU, Common Grounds near Baylor, and the local coffee place by my house are ALL about the same price as Starbucks.

That said, while I do usually make my own coffee at home, I still will make the time to thank Starbucks for their stance as regarding our rights. ANY support is better than opposition, whether its a business you frequent or not.

 

[biblefreak]

Just sent off an email myself. I am not a huge fan, but indulge from time to time. Give me black Eight O' Clock coffee any day, and maybe an extra Caramel Frappacino from Starbucks in light of their decision. Help support those that support us!!

 

[jakemccoy]

Right. So I'll send Starbucks a letter praising their stance against the Brady Bunch. I don't like the atmosphere, and will not be assosciated with it. For crying out loud, stop suggesting that I'm less of a 2A defender because I'm not dashing out to the local Starbucks (Which closed, btw. The only other one is over half an hour away. I'll write a nice letter.) to purchase their products as a show of support. Not only do I not like the atmosphere, but the Starbucks was directly related to several local small businesses failing over the last year. Big corporate chains driving away the customers of local family businesses gets under my skin, so I refuse to support Starbucks in any way.

Now, instead of ragging all over me and other THR members like me who choose not to support Starbucks (because, you know, we have a right to choose...), why not provide a link or an address so we can all send letters of appreciation to the Starbucks CEO, or try to figure out who will be next and get ahold of their CEO and say "Hey, don't do this to us." Something...oh, constructive?

You hate Starbucks for many enumerated reasons, and you refuse to support Starbucks in any way. However, you do recommend sending a letter of appreciation to their CEO. That makes no logical sense. Just buy a muffin.

 

[Superlite27]

Now, instead of ragging all over me and other THR members like me who choose not to support Starbucks (because, you know, we have a right to choose...), why not provide a link or an address so we can all send letters of appreciation to the Starbucks CEO, or try to figure out who will be next and get ahold of their CEO and say "Hey, don't do this to us." Something...oh, constructive?

I did. Check out the time of my edit to add a link to Starbuck's comment page and compare to the time of your accusation. I didn't grab a funnel and force hot coffee down your throat. I'm not forcing anyone to DO anything. I merely advocated using positive reinforcement to support a business that supports us. These opportunities are rare. We often get the chance to complain about those who ban us. Why don't we do something positive that can also benefit the cause we all enjoy?

I, personally, dislike McDonald's. I'll never go into one, ever. (Well, never say never) But I will avoid one at most costs. If they came out with a policy saying they will continue to honor state and federal laws and continue to allow people to legally carry in their restaraunts, I would thank them. Doesn't mean I'm gonna start wolfing down those nasty Big Macs anytime soon, but I'm not going to continue to bad mouth their business since they openly continued to support my freedom when they could have perfectly well said, "Fine. No more guns." like many other businesses have.

 

[Superlite27]

You hate Starbucks for many enumerated reasons, and you refuse to support Starbucks in any way. However, you do recommend sending a letter of appreciation to their CEO. That makes no logical sense.

Of course it does. I might not like Joe Smith. I might have a lawsuit against Joe Smith for burning my house down. I might think Joe Smith is a complete loser. He may be.

But if Joe Smith and I come face to face in front of the courthouse door as I'm carrying all the paperwork to sue him with and he says, "Here, let me get that for you." and opens the door for me, I can still be courteous, act with dignity in a respectful manner and say, "Thank you".

Doesn't mean I'm "illogical". It just means I'm courteous. It doesn't mean I am now best friends with Joe Smith. It just means I have the intelligence and self control to separate how I feel, think, and act about one aspect from how I do so concerning another, even though they have a common denominator.

 

[wishin]

Contact:

...

http://www.starbucks.com/customer/contact_forms.asp?nav=3e

Their customer service number is listed on their site as 800-235-2883 if you would like to thank someone in person for continuing to allow you the freedom to protect yourself in their business.

 

[jakemccoy]

I wasted about 40 dollars of otherwise billable time on this thread...dumb.

I should have spent at least half that money at Starbucks.

 

[Erik M]

is intimidating and could be potentially dangerous to our families and communities

This is what they actually believe /facepalm

I refuse to buy anything under the starbucks brand name because I do not agree with the 'mainstream' demographic that they market to.

 

[Tommygunn]

The practice of packing heat in places like Starbucks is intimidating and could be potentially dangerous .....

I guess I am overly sensitive but I have grown to really DESPISE the phrase "packing heat."
It sounds unimaginative, petty and juvenile. But I guess much of what Paul Helmke dolls out sounds like that .........

 

[Nate1778]

Good on Starbucks, I drink there every now and again. I will say most the people in there would freak out if I carried my Glock openly in the store, including the workers. Got to give credit where credit is due though, I also wrote them an e-mail, may never get to them but at least I tried. For what its worth they do make a good cup of Joe, and yes I just get a cup of coffee, Black...........

 

[NMGonzo]

Yet another reason not to visit starbucks.

 

[sfc_mark]

Wow! I didn't expect this to turn into a Starbucks hate thread. I never heard the "wouldn't support an illegal war or our troops who fought it" comment. FWIW, there are, in fact, Starbucks outlets on military bases in the middle east (nice little slice of home on the other side of the world).

I'll give Starbucks credit for not caving to the Brady Bunch, as well as letting the masses know there's something better out there than Maxwell House.

 

[shooter514]

quote:
When the liberals come for our rights they never come full on. They widdle away at the edges until there is nothing left. That way they never get hit full bore by us all protesting against them.

 

[Tamlin]

I can't believe this has turned into a Hate Starbucks thread, either. ANYONE who stands up to the Bradys and refuses to prohibit guns in their stores should have our full support, no matter what they sell. They just got an email of thanks from me.

 

[Jaxinc]

Sent an email supporting them.

Frankly I love coffee, espresso and anything even related to coffee and even Starbuck's normal coffee tastes better than any store bought coffee grind made at home. Just knowing they support people carrying firearm makes me want to go in there even more.

My last semester at college I drank 3-4 Vinte Mochas a day, might have gotten slightly addicted to them heh...