Geckgo
Member
Hello all. I would like to start a discussion of current thoughts on different handgun calibers, types of guns etc, that hopefully we can discuss this without threads like "I only use calibers that begin with .4" or "9mm is the smallest bullet I would use" and other such nonsense.
To my knowledge, the hydrostatic shock thing has been beaten to death, and on the whole, we can take it as an irrelevant point regarding guns. Yes there has supposedly been tests on either side of the argument, but for the sake of this discussion, if we can, let's disregard it.
Basically, when I started researching my first handgun, I ended up choosing an XD45, mostly because I wanted to use the same bullets when I someday get enough money to get some snazzy 1911s, but I had biases. I didn't want something smaller than 9mm and even thought the 9mm to be a "small" calibre. I was convinced that a nice .7" hole from a .45 HP put me in a comfort zone, and they still penetrate "deep enough" according to the little FBI minimum requirements.
What I see more now, is that 10-14 inches of penetration is more and more the only real factor to look at most of the time. Put the bullets in the vitals or CNS and the job is done. I've got some little factoids here, let me know how yall feel.
A heavier bullet will penetrate deeper, all other things being equal.
A faster bullet will penetrate deeper, all other things being equal.
A smaller bullet (radius) will penetrate deeper, all other things being equal.
People, IMHO, are far too concerned with Hollowpoints nowadays. To me, a hollowpoint is useful for taking a bullet that will overpenetrate, and reducing it's penetration to get a maximum energy dump for the intended target.
i.e. .22LR from a 10/22 rifle will penetrate 10-14 inches with a velocitor, regular supersonic hollowpoints 8-12 inches, but a solid moving at the same velocity will penetrate even deeper. A squirrel is nowhere near this thick, unless you shoot him along the face-to-tail axis, so smaller, more explosive expansion will still get you adequate penetration and dump a lot more energy into the squirrel, thus things like stingers are nice on small game headshots or getting rid of pests.
When it comes to defensive handguns, the same general rules apply, and HP manufacturers, i believe, correct me if I'm wrong, like to stay around the 12inch range for their HPs, while making them as powerful as they can otherwise, which means taking a sufficent round, and curbing it's penetration to make a bigger hole and dump more energy. In that respect, the big 3, 9mm, .40SW and .45ACP are all really doing the same thing, if we look at hitting the vitals/etc.
.380 HPs have had issues with penetration of hollowpoints, but some newer HPs, and definitely FMJs will do the same, punch a hole to and thru the vitals.
When you get down to .25, .32, and .22Mag, and .22LR, nearly everyone will say "get a bigger bullet" but maybe the idea is to get a more "suitable bullet". A sufficient powder charge in any of these with proper placement and non-expanding bullets should be able to effectively penetrate from a pistol with solid non-hollowpoint rounds.
There does seem to be one more item, before I close this, is that light bullets (20-50gr) might tend to change course more easily than heavier bullets with more momentum, so the tendency to deflect may be one issue to consider.
Reliablility is important in a defensive pistol, we all know that, but for this lets look at the bullets themselves. I basically want to know how, looking at these comments, if there is something else that I have missed that would make small, non-hp rounds bad for SD if they can adequately penetrate.
Just food for thought, let's keep it friendly
To my knowledge, the hydrostatic shock thing has been beaten to death, and on the whole, we can take it as an irrelevant point regarding guns. Yes there has supposedly been tests on either side of the argument, but for the sake of this discussion, if we can, let's disregard it.
Basically, when I started researching my first handgun, I ended up choosing an XD45, mostly because I wanted to use the same bullets when I someday get enough money to get some snazzy 1911s, but I had biases. I didn't want something smaller than 9mm and even thought the 9mm to be a "small" calibre. I was convinced that a nice .7" hole from a .45 HP put me in a comfort zone, and they still penetrate "deep enough" according to the little FBI minimum requirements.
What I see more now, is that 10-14 inches of penetration is more and more the only real factor to look at most of the time. Put the bullets in the vitals or CNS and the job is done. I've got some little factoids here, let me know how yall feel.
A heavier bullet will penetrate deeper, all other things being equal.
A faster bullet will penetrate deeper, all other things being equal.
A smaller bullet (radius) will penetrate deeper, all other things being equal.
People, IMHO, are far too concerned with Hollowpoints nowadays. To me, a hollowpoint is useful for taking a bullet that will overpenetrate, and reducing it's penetration to get a maximum energy dump for the intended target.
i.e. .22LR from a 10/22 rifle will penetrate 10-14 inches with a velocitor, regular supersonic hollowpoints 8-12 inches, but a solid moving at the same velocity will penetrate even deeper. A squirrel is nowhere near this thick, unless you shoot him along the face-to-tail axis, so smaller, more explosive expansion will still get you adequate penetration and dump a lot more energy into the squirrel, thus things like stingers are nice on small game headshots or getting rid of pests.
When it comes to defensive handguns, the same general rules apply, and HP manufacturers, i believe, correct me if I'm wrong, like to stay around the 12inch range for their HPs, while making them as powerful as they can otherwise, which means taking a sufficent round, and curbing it's penetration to make a bigger hole and dump more energy. In that respect, the big 3, 9mm, .40SW and .45ACP are all really doing the same thing, if we look at hitting the vitals/etc.
.380 HPs have had issues with penetration of hollowpoints, but some newer HPs, and definitely FMJs will do the same, punch a hole to and thru the vitals.
When you get down to .25, .32, and .22Mag, and .22LR, nearly everyone will say "get a bigger bullet" but maybe the idea is to get a more "suitable bullet". A sufficient powder charge in any of these with proper placement and non-expanding bullets should be able to effectively penetrate from a pistol with solid non-hollowpoint rounds.
There does seem to be one more item, before I close this, is that light bullets (20-50gr) might tend to change course more easily than heavier bullets with more momentum, so the tendency to deflect may be one issue to consider.
Reliablility is important in a defensive pistol, we all know that, but for this lets look at the bullets themselves. I basically want to know how, looking at these comments, if there is something else that I have missed that would make small, non-hp rounds bad for SD if they can adequately penetrate.
Just food for thought, let's keep it friendly