One shot stops

[sm]

That bears repeating.

Okay...

My preference would be toward the highest caliber I get good shot placement with.



Yeah but, my vehicle was a whole lot bigger than the bad guys guns, and even my CCW.
*wink*



Use Enough Motor Vehicle.

 

[Art Eatman]

Per the OP, there seems to be the idea of "All there is time for is one shot." As near as I can tell, anyway. That strikes me as too far-fetched to justify much discussion--as the consensus of this thread and the other gazillion or so threads about "how much gun?" have shown.

Most folks who've actually been in gunfights--and I am not one of those--say repeatedly that one shoots until the threat is ended.

There seems to be a general agreement that bigger is better than littler, but good shot placement from a little cartridge beats poor shot placement from a big cartridge.

So get off the keyboard and go practice...

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Strategy

While caliber selection is a "strategic element" in self defense, it should be understood that caliber is not a strategy.

Strategy is the business of being somewhere else when trouble arrives. It is the business of knowing how to recognize trouble, so you can leave before it starts.

Strategy is the business of stacking the deck in your favor. It is the way you dress, the places you go and don't go. It is knowing what's going on around you. It is the selection of the tools you will have available.

Strategy is training. It is having a plan. It is having the agreement of your family or associates on a plan. It is practicing the plan.

Tactics is the immediate implementation of the plan, the training, and the tools.

Without a plan, without cooperation, without training, and without the will and conviction to execute, it won't matter if you have a wheelbarrow full of tools, and the caliber of the tools will be irrelevant.


If I may molest a metaphor: Don't be fooled into thinking you're going to win the MLB World Series just because you bought the right bat. A swing-and-a-miss with the world's finest bat is still a strike.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Ragnar Danneskjold: Caliber has nothing to do with stopping power.

Can't quite buy that. Just to quibble, a .22 hitting a particular spot on a body may just miss a vital nerve or tendon, while a .45 may hit it.

However, the much more important question is one of chambering or choice of cartridge, not bullet diameter. I suggest that the replacement of the .32 S&W Long by the .38 S&W Special in police and civilian use, and the replacement of the .38 Long Colt by the .45 ACP in U. S. military use, had something to do with power, and that something was not range or trajectory. Same thing goes for the phasing out of the 7.65MM semi-auto among police forces in Europe.

Obviously penetration has a lot to do with it, but then why did Germany adopt the 9MM Parabellum in preference to the 7.65MM Luger?

Just thought I'd say it one more time. There is NO SUCH THING as a reliable one-shot-stop caliber.

Can't argue with that. Probably bears repeating: There is NO SUCH THING as a reliable one-shot-stop caliber.

Posted by hso: There are no guaranteed "one shot stops" for any caliber. The term has become a trite turn of phrase that most people misunderstand and misuse. For every video of a BG dropping because of a .45 to the chest there are videos of people continuing to fight from the same shot. The only "one shot stops" come from high energy shots to the CNS everything else is a toss of the dice.

That's consistent with everything that I've read. "Knock down power" is another misused term, IMHO.

Bullet placement is more important than caliber for stopping a lethal attack.

Yep.

Posted by wulfhart: A smaller caliber would provide better shot placement as it is easier to fire accurately.

I'm not sure that accuracy would really help me much in terms of shot placement in a rapidly developing SD situation, but choosing a round and handgun combination that would make it difficult to get back on target very quickly (say, a .357 Magnum in a Scandium J-Frame) would sure work against me, as implied by Ragnar Danneskjold.

A larger caliber would provide better penetration...

Caliber per se, no--consider the .41RF. A .32 ACP would be better, and a .327 Magnum, better still. It's the power and the bullet design.

...and possibly cause hydrostatic shock.

Without quibbling about terms ("hydrostatic" has to do with the science of fluids at rest; I learned that in Engineering School at about the same time I was first reading articles about "hydrostatic shock" by Jack O'Connor and Roy Weatherby, but I did not question their terminology at the time), I don't think one will see the shock effect in a handgun cartridge. Jack and Roy were discussing high-powered rifles.

Posted by bikerdoc:Shot placement

Apply calibre of choice and repeat as necessary

Yep. What's with this "time for one shot" idea?

To try to nail down what that means, lets go back to Ragnar Danneskjold:

Most training centers, and all the training I've personally received, has stressed controlled pairs with scanning for followup shots. Sights on target-fire-return to center-fire-reassess threat-fire again if necessary. That's the minimum for one threat. 2-3 rounds per target, not counting misses. I've picked my caliber based on that...

Same goes for me.

One prerequisite is to be able to do that. The first prerequisite is to have and employ a successful strategy, starting with the avoidance of danger.

If one bases his strategy on the success of a plan to "fire one shot and put the bad guy down before he can pull the trigger" when "it would have been really bad if the bad guy didnt hit the ground in one shot", when it is possible to "not draw and try to ride the situation out without using lethal force", he has made the wrong decision, regardless of his choice of chambering or his skill level at the range or in training.

 

[josephbw]

Here's a link to the Handloads website. This page has data from actual shootings and the percentage of "one shot stops". Just plug in the caliber or check the "All loads" and it will show you which bullet did the job best, and even the wound penetration. What it doesn't tell you though, is whether the perp bled out and died from his injuries, or dropped dead on the spot.

Hint, one magnum pistol cartridge was in 3rd place behind 2 rifle cartridges.

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp

As others have posted, there is no substitution for shot placement. Also people don't die like they do in the movies or video games.

 

[Shadow 7D]

OK, Please read above

It doesn't really matter what gun or caliber

ONE STOP SHOTS ARE NEXT TO THE TOOTH FAIRY AND FORTUNE COOKIE LOTTO NUMBERS

they may happen, but one plus one does not equal 3

 

[Manco]

The way some people talk, caliber doesn't matter at all, which implies that we should all be using .22 LR for defensive purposes. The way I view this issue, in the end placement really is all that matters, but the areas of the body in which shots are effective changes according to caliber (actually, not just caliber per se, but everything that goes into terminal ballistics). In short, some shots will be effective with one caliber but not with another; if this were false, then I would propose that anybody who uses a caliber larger than .22 LR is a fool. The difference in effectiveness between most calibers is small--smaller, I think, than their differences in recoil and cost, for example--but sometimes the high stakes involved can justify choosing a larger caliber, depending on many other factors as well.

 

[glenizen]

Okay, I'm confused. I thought the raison d'etre of the Browning M1911, and the .40 S&W were due to government agencies with gobs of first-hand experience demanded larger caliber rounds for "stopping power."

Furthermore, I guess these guys don't know what they're doing either:

Inspired by a lack of stopping power offered by the 5.56 NATO cartridge used in the M4 and the M16, the .458 SOCOM came about from informal discussion of members of the special operations community, specifically Task Force Ranger's experience that multiple shots were required to neutralize members of the opposing force in Mogadishu during Operation Gothic Serpent. Marty ter Weeme designed the cartridge in 2000 and Tony Rumore of Tromix, Inc was contracted to build the first .458 SOCOM rifle in February 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_SOCOM


Please, someone; unconfuse me :-|

 

[sonier]

Ok lots of confusion and I am sorry, hydrostatic shock deals with fluids yes? Ok so hydrostatic shock is the term im looking for when I shoot 1 gallon jugs with calibers. If so it is safe to say that a 110 grain HP traveling around 1850fps is going to make that jug just explode, while a 9mm FMJ is going to penetrate and let the water drain out.

 

[9mmepiphany]

If so it is safe to say that a 110 grain HP traveling around 1850fps is going to make that jug just explode, while a 9mm FMJ is going to penetrate and let the water drain out.

which has very little to do with a one shot stop.

a 9mm FMJ slug, which almost eveyone will agree is about the least potent bullet loaded into a 9mm, will happily bore it's way to the back of the skull (or at an upward angle just completely miss the jaw) and tap the medulla oblongata just hard enough to bring down anyone without a further twitch...hell a 7.65x17mm will do that. from the rear a 5.6x15mmR works just great

 

[Kleanbore]

Ok so hydrostatic shock is the term im looking for when I shoot 1 gallon jugs...

Not to go off on a tangent, but hydrostatics refers to fluids at rest. Static. Hydrostatic pressure is the pressure exerted by gravity on a column of fluid.

"Hysdrostatic shock" is something of misnomer; it's a term coined by gun people to describe the effects of very high velocity expanding bullets on game, the tissue of which may or may not behave similarly to an incompressible fluid.

So much for that. The point is that the wounding mechanics of a handgun have little to do with a shock wave generated by a bullet entering the tissue mach 3 and expanding to transfer all of it's energy in one form of another to the target and a lot more to do with what vital part of the body is destroyed by having been poked by a projectile.

All of which I learned from people on this forum....

Here's the conclusion of an extensive FBI report on the subject:

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet.

Bigger--provided that you can control the gun for shots fired in rapid succession. Let's go back to what Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Most training centers, and all the training I've personally received, has stressed controlled pairs with scanning for followup shots. Sights on target-fire-return to center-fire-reassess threat-fire again if necessary. That's the minimum for one threat. 2-3 rounds per target, not counting misses.

To me, that means you can easily have too much power. One can also have too little.

Those 2-3 rounds per target are fired in very rapid succession indeed. In my training I did OK with a steel framed .45 ACP, but most of the people brought 9MM and .40 cal. pistols--full size, by the way.

Back to the OP--if one must either rely upon instantaneous incapacitation with one shot or elect to not shoot, the answer should be pretty obvious!

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

To me, that means you can easily have too much power. One can also have too little.

Those 2-3 rounds per target are fired in very rapid succession indeed. In my training I did OK with a steel framed .45 ACP, but most of the people brought 9MM and .40 cal. pistols--full size, by the way.

I don't think I would phrase it quite the same way as "too much power". I think that it's more along the lines of choosing your caliber with an emphasis on your ability to control it for followup shots, and magazine capacity. Once you have those two factors set, then pick the biggest round you can that fits into that. An 8 round .45 might be able to make a bigger wound channel, but if the person ends up missing with their followups because they can't control it, and ends up running out of rounds before all the threats are down, I would say they made a bad choice when picking handguns.

There are some .45s out there that give you enough capacity, such as the XD. But I am of the opinion that 1911 style pistols with 8 rounds, and revolvers just do not have the capacity to be a wise choice. People seem to think in terms of "5 shots is plenty for one mugger". What if there's more than one? What if you miss (most people do)?

Firing 2 rounds of 9mm and hitting the threat once will always be better than firing once with a .45 or .44 and missing. I am not meaning to turn this into a caliber war thread. But it just seems to me that most people who think it terms of "one shot stops" are doing so to justify carrying a large-bullet/low capacity weapon. And based on how I have been trained, with 2-3 or more shots per threat being the minimum, low capacity is a serious detriment.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Ragnar Danneskjold: I don't think I would phrase it quite the same way as "too much power". I think that it's more along the lines of choosing your caliber with an emphasis on your ability to control it for followup shots, and magazine capacity. Once you have those two factors set, then pick the biggest round you can that fits into that.

Agree. By "too much power" I meant "too much recoil to control the gun for rapid follow-up shots."

But I am of the opinion that 1911 style pistols with 8 rounds, and revolvers just do not have the capacity to be a wise choice. People seem to think in terms of "5 shots is plenty for one mugger". What if there's more than one? What if you miss (most people do)?

I started out carrying an Airweight Centennial--and then changed my thinking.

Personally, I think I may actually be more likely to be accosted by two than by one--one person is likely to be more risk averse than two. Crime reports around here seem to support that. In my training class, I was able to hit each of three steel targets twice very quickly and consistently with a Model 1911 at seven yards. More capacity might be better but I think I can rely on eight rounds. Not for competition, of course....

With my 9MM S&W M&P Compact, I have a twelve round magazine, but I load ten rounds. I once thought a double-column magazine was overkill. Not long ago I thought carrying an extra magazine was excessive.

I selected the 1911 for a number of reasons, but frankly, I'm not all that sure that the .45 really provides me with that much more margin than a 9MM with proper loads, though I have nothing concrete to base that on.

Interesting how many self-styled caliber experts there seem to be. A lot of people seem to insist on .357 Magnum loads, even for indoor HD use and even in small five shot revolvers. Some time ago, when some folks were extolling the virtue of thirteen ounce Scandium alloy snubbies in .357 magnum and denigrating those who found the experience of shooting one to be unpleasant, someone with a lot of competition experience mentioned that no one can really control one well enough for rapid follow up shots. He suggested that the proponents try one on bowling pins. Of course, there's also the capacity issue.

One day in a high performance defensive pistol class should convince anyone of the need for controllability and capacity and provide the realization that a well aimed shot in a defensive encounter is likely to remain an elusive goal.

 

[FLAvalanche]

I am absolutely in love with the .380 round. Love it!

You know why? Because over the past year it has caused people, on this very board, to make the stupidest statements, bend the laws of physics, and travel the internet in search of the goofiest tidbits of information to back up their hatred or support of a simple hunk of lead.

I find it both amusing and dismal at the same time.

 

[easyg]

Caliber has nothing to do with stopping power.

Caliber has nothing to do with stopping power.

Caliber has nothing to do with stopping power.

Do I need to repeat this?



Shot placement is all that counts.

a .380 to the heart will do the exact same thing as a .44mag to the heart

a .380 to the brain pan will do the exact same thing as a .44 mag to the brain pan.

Notions like this ^^ are simply not true.


Yes, caliber definitely matters.
No, shot placement is not all that counts.

No, a .380 slug to the heart will NOT do the exact same thing as a .44 magnum slug to the heart.

No, a .380 slug to the brain will not do the exact same thing as a .44 magnum to the brain.




I'm not saying that shot is unimportant.
In fact, shot placement is of the utmost importance.
After all, a miss will do no damage to the target at all.



But even with a well placed shot the round must still have the ability to reliably provide enough penetration as to reach vital organs or vessels.

And even with enough penetration the round must reliably cause enough damage to that vital organ or vessel.

A .22 bullet, fired from a snub-nose revolver, from 15 feet away, might not have the ability to penetrate the sternum of a human, and so might not even reach the heart.
And so might not cause sufficient damage as to stop the target from continuing his attack.

But a .357 magnum bullet, fired from a snub-nose revolver, from 15 feet away, will most likely have the ability to penetrate the sternum of a human and most likely penetrate the heart as well.
And will most likely cause enough damage to the heart as to quickly stop the target from continuing his attack.


Shot placement and control are most important for sure.
But caliber matters as well.

Despite what some folks here claim, some calibers really are more effective at stopping humans than other calibers (all other things being equal).

Humans have been shooting humans since guns were invented.
And us humans have learned quite a bit about the effects of various calibers on humans.
And not all calibers perform the same, even with equal shot placement.
Some calibers cause more damage to the target than other calibers.
Some calibers penetrate the human body better than other calibers.
And some calibers just stop aggressive humans better and quicker than other calibers.

If you want to carry a less effective caliber, fine.
Just don't delude yourself in to believing that caliber does not matter at all.




As for one-shot-stops in the scenario....

Who stops after a single shot in a life-and-death situation?




Easy

 

[BBQLS1]

That's it, I'm selling all my guns and buying .22LR pistols/revolvers. After all caliber doesn't matter.

Sorry, Caliber does matter, it's just not as high on the list as shot placement. There are quite a few things that play into the effectiveness of a fired round. Those things have to be weighed out.

Pick a caliber that you can shoot often, offer quick follow up shots (recoil control), and generally has enough penetration to reach vital organs.

I prefer .45 ACP, but don't have a problem with the right 9mm rounds. I'll take .38 Special and .357 Mag too. .44 Mag is probably too much. .380 can be enough, but select some good hot ammo.

One Shot Stops? That'll depend on mostly shot placement with penetration. Good Luck with the shot placment as you'll need to hit something very small like the spinal column or the occular cavity (brain).

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Pick a caliber that you can shoot often, offer quick follow up shots (recoil control), and generally has enough penetration to reach vital organs and allows enough capacity that you can engage multiple threats with multiple rounds each, accounting for misses, and still have enough rounds left over in 1 magazine to continue the engagement if necessary

FTFY

 

[sonier]

ok im trying to figure out why people claim a 380 will do the same as 357 mag debates. I see a 380 shooting 85 grain bullets at 1000fps, lacking in power, ok say that 380, 85 grain fmj hits a perfect shot to the heart it penetrates the heart and goes through, this is a lethal kill we all agree to this, BUT a 357 magnum with a 125 grain hollowpoint to a perfect shot to the heart will the 125 grain not literally turn the heart into mush? I have seen the effects on ammo that tends to have explosive effects on deer and elk, and it seems the organs are just disengrated.
So to my point would a 357 magnum not put a guy down in one shot a HELL of a lot better than a 380?
I have also heard LOTS of storys of 25 acps and 380s hitting the skull of a human and just rolling around it not penetrating the skull are these storys true and does it happen?

I also agree shoot till the threat is over but at the same time I DONT WANT TO GET SHOT EITHER so i want to have a darn good chance to put him down in one shot.

I dont believe in sitting idle by why someone is getting robbed, I have seen way to many videos online from people who rob and then shoot the people he just robbed, and I refuse to let this happen if i can stop it, call me wrong call me right I dont care its my belief.

 

[Mags]

Great another caliber wars in S&T. This thread must be chock full of facts and information.

 

[sonier]

if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything at all.

 

[Gouranga]

LOL. Caliber wars are fun.

I would say caliber matters. A 40 JHP is going to do more damage than a 9mm JHP when fired to the exact same point and more than a .380 jhp in the same point, etc.

I would also say caliber is second to shot placement. After all if you cannot hit center mass, your threat is not coming down on a single shot no matter what caliber you got (assuming you do not have explosive rounds or something wacky like that).

So I would say for a 1 shot stop
1. Shot Placement
2. Caliber

Another variable is gonna be the nature of your threat. Some drugged out meth head could probably take a few rounds that would drop a normal person in a single shot.

That being said to steal a line from someone on here, there is not a caliber listed I would want to be shot with.

 

[Mags]

Okay.

Your original posts the one that trolls up all the usual "this caliber is better than that chest thumping":

In a scenario you are being robbed, the robber has and is weilding a pistol, he has the clerk at gunpoint, you are 10 feet to the right side of the robber next to the counter, you get a break to draw your weapon, and you do so. You fire one shot and put the bad guy down before he can pull the trigger. In this scenario I find it very possible if you cant put the robber down with one shot, that he can turn around and shoot you. My question is do the smaller pocket guns, 380 acp and smaller, have the necessary force to put this guy down with one shot.

1. Your life was not in danger
2. You can not out draw an already drawn gun
3. Drawing your weapon further jeopardizes the clerk who already has a gun pointed at them
4. Heroics and stopping a robbery are not normally duties belonging to the average CCer
5. Even if in your "heroic fantasy" you manage to shoot the perp with a 380 and drop him the most important thing is shot placement. In your given scenarion it seems rather risky to draw and take aim for a "mythical one shot stop" while the robber already has their gun drawn. Even if you had a 500 S&W magnum you are not guaranteed a one shot stop ever.

YOU SHOOT TO STOP THE THREAT AND DO NOT STOP SHOOTING UNTIL THE THREAT HAS STOPPED!

Caliber has little to do with one shot stops. Debating calibers is pointless.

However debating actual strategy in such a scenario has merit.

1.Should you retreat and be a good witness?
2.Can you fall back to allow yourself time to take aim and make proper shot placement?
3.Does the robber want to just rob the store or do they intend on eliminating witnesses?
4. How close ar you to the robber?
5. Can you safely turn the gun away from the clerk and perform a belly shot on the robber?
6. Do you have a duty to act?

These are legitimate questions that need to be answered for such a situation. The "stopping power" of said calber is so petty in the grand scheme of things it should be discussed last if at all after all serious strategy questions were answered.

 

[sonier]

I agree with shot placement. I have a 357 magnum that i have fired over 3000 rounds through it and, I can draw and shoot and empty 6 shots into center mass at 50 yards, I can draw fast as i can, fire in double action mode, and hit 2 liter bottles fast as i can squeeze the rounds out at 10 yards, near all day long.
IF you dont like a caliber thread then dont read it, mags it is not your job to moderate threads and deem what is ridicoulous or not. S&T does not just revolve around you.

BACK TO THE THREAD, how do you know that the clerk isnt going to get shot anyways? IT happens, and in this process I am of course not going to shoot if the guy has his gun directly on the clerk, at some point or another he will be distracted by the cash, drugs whatever. this is my time to draw and shoot. If i dont put him down on the floor with the first shot, there is a good chance he can turn and fire at me as well. MY QUESTION IS does the 380 ACP cartridge and smaller rounds have the power to put this guy down in one shot?

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by sonier: I see a 380 shooting 85 grain bullets at 1000fps, lacking in power, ok say that 380, 85 grain fmj hits a perfect shot to the heart it penetrates the heart and goes through, this is a lethal kill we all agree to this,...

A lethal shot and an effective SD shot are often two different things.

Again quoting from the aforementioned FBI report,

Even if the heart is instantly destroyed, there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support full and complete voluntary action for 10-15 seconds.

...which means that if this...

BUT a 357 magnum with a 125 grain hollowpoint to a perfect shot to the heart will the 125 grain not literally turn the heart into mush?

...were true (and it is not) it wouldn't mean anything.

I have seen the effects on ammo that tends to have explosive effects on deer and elk, and it seems the organs are just disengrated.

Do not confuse the effects of a handgun bullet traveling at 900-1400 FPS with those of a hunting rifle bullet traveling at 3400. One more time, from the FBI report,

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth.

That has to do with the effects of handgun cartridges on humans, not Weatherby Magnums on antelope.

So to my point would a 357 magnum not put a guy down in one shot a HELL of a lot better than a 380?

The issue with the .380 is primarily that, depending upon the angle of the shot and upon what the target is wearing, it may not penetrate adequately. It may, but it may not.

...i want to have a darn good chance to put him down in one shot.

Sorry, that's just not a realistic goal. A shot to CNS would likely drop the assailant quickly (but maybe not keep him from pulling the trigger), but such a shot is unlikely and you can't count on it. As Ragnar Danneskjold has pointed out more than once, you are going to try to hit two or three times very rapidly, and that will involve shooting center mass. DO NOT EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO HIT THE ASSAILANT'S HEAD.

I dont believe in sitting idle by why someone is getting robbed, I have seen way to many videos online from people who rob and then shoot the people he just robbed, and I refuse to let this happen if i can stop it, call me wrong call me right I dont care its my belief.

How many times do people rob and then not shoot? What make s you think you could stop it? What makes you think you wouldn't actually cause a robbery to turn into a shooting situation? Have you had enough relevant training to give you any appreciation of what likely happen if your were to draw and fire, and to give you a basis for an informed belief? Do you think that caliber really has much if anything to do with the question of what to do?

I strongly suggest that you look into some good high performance defensive pistol shooting training delevered by professionals. In the mean-time, Mags' comments are pretty much on point:

1. Your life was not in danger
2. You can not out draw an already drawn gun
3. Drawing your weapon further jeopardizes the clerk who already has a gun pointed at them
4. Heroics and stopping a robbery are not normally duties belonging to the average CCer
5. Even if in your "heroic fantasy" you manage to shoot the perp with a 380 and drop him the most important thing is shot placement. In your given scenarion it seems rather risky to draw and take aim for a "mythical one shot stop" while the robber already has their gun drawn. Even if you had a 500 S&W magnum you are not guaranteed a one shot stop ever.

..BACK TO THE THREAD, how do you know that the clerk isnt going to get shot anyways? IT happens,...

You don't, but statistics indicate that is not likely. How do you know that he would not have been shot but for your intervention? Think about that for a moment.

If i dont put him down on the floor with the first shot, there is a good chance he can turn and fire at me as well.

Then it would not be a good idea to shoot.

MY QUESTION IS does the 380 ACP cartridge and smaller rounds have the power to put this guy down in one shot?

In the unlikely event of a shot to the right part of the brain, yes. Same goes for the .38 Special, 9MM Parabellum, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. Just don't expect to be able to do it. Trained LEOs regard their handguns as defensive weapons, and would not intervene in this scenario with a handgun. What makes you think that any civilian should?

 

[sonier]

Calibers are part of your strategy, you are using your self defense weapon of choice, whether you choose to keep it in the holster or not is a choice as well, but regardless your whole entire plan will be formulated around your weapon, so arguing over your weapon caliber of choice is indeed a strategy and tactic to be discussed.