One shot stops

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mags it is not your job to moderate threads and deem what is ridicoulous or not. S&T does not just revolve around you.
The responsibilty to steer threads in a more productive discussion belongs to all THR members.

To answer your question:
MY QUESTION IS does the 380 ACP cartridge and smaller rounds have the power to put this guy down in one shot?
It is simple no. One shot to the head or vital organ is going to do the trick in most circumstance but in the rare occasion a 45 acp to the head or heart still may not do the trick. This is why caliber wars are futile. YOU WILL NEVER BE GUARANTEED A ONE SHOT STOP! To rely on the size of your gun in such a way is a poor strategy. That is a fact whether you like it or not.
Calibers are part of your strategy,
but regardless your whole entire plan will be formulated around your weapon,
You need a new strategy...

Sonier's sig line:
"You can't argue with ignorance"
He said it not me.
 
ok thankyou cleanbore on the FBI readings now to that shock force of the bullet hitting, can a high velocity HP handgun round hit near a vital organ and the shock of the round destroy that organ?
 
How many poor schmoes who are behind the counter in a convenience store have been the target in numerous what-if threads on every gun forum?

It ranks in there with - Shall I charge out of my bedroom to engage the BG or be a coward and actually do a sensible think and hunker down.

As far as guns - I agree with Kleanbore - the compact quality 9's like the XDs, Glock 26s, MP and Rugers are a great civilian gun. More than enough for the convenience store heroics and probably with an extra mag - gets you out of rampage.

I've done the convenience store as a GG or BG in FOF - you die, they die - no guarantees. Of course, on the Internet - you never miss, they never hit you, your shots are instantly incapacitating, there is never a unknown BG backup. You can draw you gun unseen or faster than the BG.

Or you can look at it and flee in terror. Made it a few times, got hosed once.
 
I know there is no such thing as a one shot stop all the time BUT i agree that certain calibers have a MUCH HIGHER CHANCE IN DOING SO, and that is my point
 
OK

So we can all agree that
"One Shot Stops"
Have more to do with shot placement with an adequate bullet than any "X caliber"

And everything past that is personal choice and semantics, Listen, I would take a mini gun in .22LR over one in 308, because I'm not Arnold, and it would be controllable.

Shot placement is KING, after that it's an effective bullet out of a comfortable and accurate gun of the caliber of your choice.

Like someone mentioned earlier, there is two shots in this scenario that would be effective, one to the brain stem, where you would have a flaccid release (versus a clenching = dead clerk) or shooting the gun/hand to make him drop it.

I don't have a scoped rifle, nor would I trust my pistol to disarm the man, I think I would take option 2 and be a good witness.
 
Im going to end my debate and ask the moderators to lock the thread after this post, I found this link http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm
The one shot stop ratings are from police reports, this is gathered data over the years. This Is based off real life scenarios and I will just read my info on this process rather than ask it here. I have a real hard time arguing with hardcore data in front of my face.
 
can a high velocity HP handgun round hit near a vital organ and the shock of the round destroy that organ?
Not according to the FBI report.

The tissue disruption caused by a handgun bullet is limited to two mechanisms. The first, or crush mechanism is the hole the bullet makes passing through the tissue. The second, or stretch mechanism is the temporary cavity formed by the tissues being driven outward in a radial direction away from the path of the bullet. Of the two, the crush mechanism, the result of penetration and permanent cavity, is the only handgun wounding mechanism which damages tissue. To cause significant injuries to a structure within the body using a handgun, the bullet must penetrate the structure. Temporary cavity has no reliable wounding effect in elastic body tissues. Temporary cavitation is nothing more than a stretch of the tissues,
generally no larger than 10 times the bullet diameter (in handgun calibers), and elastic tissues sustain little, if any, residual damage.

I know there is no such thing as a one shot stop all the time BUT i agree that certain calibers have a MUCH HIGHER CHANCE IN DOING SO, and that is my point
Not according to the literature, unless it's a matter of penetration, and even then, the chance is very low indeed.
 
The reality is...

These calibre wars have been going on for some time, and will continue in the future.
This "one-shot-stop" business will as well. And not just for personal protection, also in the realm of hunting.

The old suggested ideas remain the same:
Carry/use the largest gun one can effectively get quick hits with. Oh, and very important, one must be able to not only effectively carry the firearm, also be able to access it.

It does no good to have a firearm, and its loading, if one cannot carry/use it, and get quick effective hits.
There is a reason it is suggested, and I personally know many THR members, including Staff, that the home guns, are guns the "smallest" person in the home/office can effectively get quick hits with.

People change, just as environments.

I believe it is Mr. Hackathorn ( correct me if need), that suggests one take a sheet of typing paper, fold in half, then fold again.

Set this target at 5 yards, and only load 5 rounds into the handgun.
At the "go" (timer, stopwatch, whatever) shoot as quickly and as effectively to get good hits.


This will determine:
-What gun fits you. Semi-Auto, or Revolver, Make, Model and whatnot.
-What caliber, and what loading in said caliber fits you best.

This. Will. Change.

i.e. Retired law enforcement officer that carried a .357 magnum, with .357 magnum loads, and back in his day, qualifications included shooting at 50 yards.
Not feet, yards.

Arthritis and other age crept up, so using the drill mentioned above, he went to Standard Pressure, 158 gr, LSWC-HP.
(Lead semi wadcutters, hollow point).

He could get NOT get quick effective hits, with the .357 load.

His health went down, including hip replacement. He could not wear the heavier revolver, as he once had, and shot the drill again, and this time, went to using a Colt Detective Special, using 158 grain LSWC.
His hands got worse, and some days used 148 grain target wadcutters.

He did NOT default to gun, to solve all problems. Instead he used his brain.
e.g. Having the drug store deliver prescriptions, instead of going out for the Rx.
Asking someone to go with him, when he had errands to run, like bank, post office, and doctor's office.

Animals do not know how they are supposed to react to a make, model of firearm, or the loading.
Human beings do not either.

Some humans, freak out, just from the sight of a gun, the sound of a gunshot, or the sight of blood, and the like.
Some humans, do not.

Many a animal being hunted "did not drop right there" and many humans have shared, they had not been aware, they had been shot, until it was pointed out to them.

One shot stops are marketing tools.

Ninety percent of fishing gear, is NOT to catch fish, instead to catch fisherpersonss wallets.

I was mentored to not get into a situation in the first place, and to evade if evil showed, and then deal with the threat, if I could not evade, until the threat was stopped.

Until the threat was stopped, is the key, no matter what make, model of firearm, or its loading.

No matter what make model of cane, car antenna, bottle of water, rolled up newspaper/magazine, ink pen, number two pencil, pool cue, pitcher of beer, pizza pan...
 
The Hawks table is drawn from sources including Marshall and Sanow. Not considered credible today.

Conclusion

The simple analysis procedure I have used show a clear basis for claims of unreasonable characteristics in the Marshall & Sanow "data base" in earlier reviews.5-8 However, I believe that demonstrating the misrepresentations by the simple arithmetic method I have used adds an element that was missing in the previous reviews. This simple proof can be followed completely and understood by every reader, including myself and others who lack a strong technical background.

I believe the Marshall & Sanow "data base" is completely discredited by the impossible conditions shown to exist in it.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/marshall-sanow-discrepancies.htm

Shouldn't influence one's deciision of whether or not to insert oneself into a crime scene, IMHO.
 
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