open carry: worth it?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mrokern:

COMMON SENSE would tell you that IF a person was openly carrying a firearm AND someone nearby had bad intentions involving the use of a firearm the person who was openly carrying a firearm, and who could potentially be a threat to the intentions of the bad guy would be the FIRST to be removed from the situation by the bad guy..

It's called "common sense", but since you seem to lack that virtue I won't waste your time, or my time by discussing it further.

Don't mean to add to your "sickness" by telling you the truth, so I'll just take your advice and "go away"..

Please direct your response to the crowd, I won't be here, and the floor is all yours.

Jesse
 
i would assume the bad person would re-evaluate his intentions when he sees someone with a gun standing there.
 
I think it can be argued both ways.

Concealed may in most circumstances give you the advantage of surprise.

BUT, if you are dealing with a criminal who KNOWS you are armed and wants to party ANYWAY, he is very dangerous and unpredictable.

Open carry solves one problem but creates another.
 
Here in the land where everyone sounds like Mr. Howell on Gilligan's Island you have to have a Concealed Carry Permit just to transport a handgun in your car. There was even an extremely controversial case based on a guy, James Goldberg (really nice guy, I've met him) who was carrying concealed w/ a permit but inadvertently allowed his pistol to be seen. He was arrested for this "crime," lost his permit, it was finally returned, but a federal lawsuit is still in court. So we are definitely the "paranoid ani" zone. Thanks to Goldberg, no one's been arrested lately just because some politically correct moron happened to see the end of a pistol grip or a holster under a sweatshirt.

Oddly, however, OC is technically legal here! There's a small but fairly vocal and active OC activist group who are pushing the envelope on it. Between the two poles, legal open carry and concealed carry, something's gotta give eventually. My chief concern is this: antis know that a good many gun people feel ambivalent about OC and thus it might be usable as wedge to divide us. Even after Heller and (hopefully) later this year McDonald there's still plenty of room to propose "reasonable" limitations on gun possession and deployment. OC vs. CC may be one place where antis try to draw a line, hoping to split us apart.

My reaction is that we have to stand fast for open carry! If someone has to carry concealed, let's make the hoods do it.
 
Jeez. Why all the testosterone and thin skins?

I CC everywhere legal, always.

i also OC on the farm, in the woods, and yes, ...even around town sometimes just to contribute to it being "more seen, and more common". That said, I'm also 51 and don't look like a posturing kid or some dirtbag. That's an important part of the equation, IMHO.

OK, slag away... I, for one, can take it... :D

Les
 
good posts, Jeff23 and Les!
i'm glad this turned into the conversation it did. despite a couple elites trying to nix it.
thanks everyone for your input.
 
Mrokern:

COMMON SENSE would tell you that IF a person was openly carrying a firearm AND someone nearby had bad intentions involving the use of a firearm the person who was openly carrying a firearm, and who could potentially be a threat to the intentions of the bad guy would be the FIRST to be removed from the situation by the bad guy..

It's called "common sense", but since you seem to lack that virtue I won't waste your time, or my time by discussing it further.

Don't mean to add to your "sickness" by telling you the truth, so I'll just take your advice and "go away"..

Please direct your response to the crowd, I won't be here, and the floor is all yours.

Jesse
Jesse, I'm an instructor and activist, I've read hundreds of DGU reports, and I've ONCE to see a case where someone was directly attacked due to open carrying.

If you can't back up your position, it's not of any use.

And yeah, I'm a grouchy sort on this. Nothing like hiding in a corner because we're too afraid of the big bad wolf to advance our rights. Every single time this comes up, somebody has to come out spouting that "you're gonna shoot your eye out" junk about getting taken out first. The other one is that the bad guy is going to grab your gun and use it on you.

Give me one, just one instance where a bad guy walked into a stop n' rob, or a bank, and immediately shot a carry permit holder because they were open carrying.

PLEASE.

But nobody ever can...because it hasn't happened. Watch security tapes. Thugs aren't looking for threats, they are focused on the prize and the person who holds the keys to the prize.

I used to work corrections...believe me, while criminals can be cunning, and devious...tactical skills are NOT the norm. If you go up against the bad guys from "Heat", you're in a heck of a lot of trouble no matter how you're carrying. That's called drawing the short straw, my friend.

If it was the better tactical choice to stay concealed, then shouldn't the majority of cops be plain clothed?

I won't go out of my way to scare soccer moms. That doesn't do us any good either. But my gosh, how scared do you have to be to worry that someone is going to off you first just for having a gun?

And 95% of the time...I carry deeply concealed, lest you think I parade around town with a neon arrow pointed at my hip.

-Mark
 
Last edited:
I DON'T WANT to wear my firearm openly, as IF a bad guy sees you are armed you will, IMHO, be the first to get his attention..

Tell that to those two guys in Georgia who caused TWO CARLOADS of would-be hold-up men to wait for them to leave that Wafle House, and got caught while waiting...
 
//If it was the better tactical choice to stay concealed, then shouldn't the majority of cops be plain clothed?//

id like to hear the answer to this.
 
qoute
somebody has to come out spouting that "you're gonna shoot your eye out"
.
l laughed so hard I scared the cat
 
quote
:scrutiny:BUT, if you are dealing with a criminal who KNOWS you are armed and wants to party ANYWAY, he is very dangerous and unpredictable.:uhoh:
Open carry solves one problem but creates another.
.
If he were dangerous and unpredictable to begin with what problem was created?:confused:
 
azyogi said:
quote
BUT, if you are dealing with a criminal who KNOWS you are armed and wants to party ANYWAY, he is very dangerous and unpredictable.
Open carry solves one problem but creates another.
.
If he were dangerous and unpredictable to begin with what problem was created?

Well, those facts would tend to solidify your self-defense claim in the legal aftermath.
 
I should have phrased it better. The problem it creates is that you have erased the doubt in his mind as to whether or not you are a problem. If he KNOWS you are armed, you have just made it easier for him to decide how to move. I would prefer to keep him guessing.

Like I say, you could argue it both ways.
 
//If it was the better tactical choice to stay concealed, then shouldn't the majority of cops be plain clothed?//

id like to hear the answer to this.
I'll be fair...guns are just one of many tools LEOs have at their disposal. And also to be fair, there are those who would target a uniformed LEO just because they are a LEO. Sick, twisted individuals...

Yes, LEOs have to run toward trouble when we can run away. Yes, they have a far greater chance of needing to draw their weapon than we do. And yes, a uniformed cop presents a visual deterrent to criminals.

They represent the authority of the state to remove freedom, and that is shown in the uniform and the badge.

The gun on their hip represents the ultimate authority and responsibility, the ability to take life in order to protect life. The rules may be different, but the same principles apply to armed citizens. There is an argument to be made that a gun says, "I am a free citizen, and I will defend my life and right to remain free with lethal force should you try to take either from me."

What's the true purpose of alarm systems, whether they be in home or car? To deter criminals, right? And how do they do that? By making your house or car just a little harder to rob or steal than the one next to it. Criminals, on the whole, want easy targets. Ever hear of the book "Games People Play"? There's a similar book that is popular with corrections personnel called "Games Criminals Play". It discusses the criminal mindset, and covers the "interview" process that criminals use when selecting a victim. It's an awful lot like being the meek looking guy at the carnival...the carnies are going to LOVE you, because you're enough of a sucker to play their crooked games. They don't waste their time with the big guy who walks upright and doesn't give them the time of day.

Are there truly bad guys out there? Yup.

I remember a book by Marc MacYoung I read years ago, where he talked about how a professional knows when they are up against a regular thug, or a hardened opponent. He said something to the effect of, "...you know you've gone and treed a bad one..."

If you find yourself against a criminal who is truly ruthless and has tactical sense, you're in deep, deep, deep trouble. Are you going to run into that criminal in a Kwik-e-Mart? I'd guess...no, unless they are stopping off for a Squishy or other treat on the way to their next heist. If you do run into them, could they in theory shoot you to remove a threat? Sure. I'll grant that it could happen. More likely that those guys aren't robbing convenience stores, unless they're aiming for the armored car drivers. And yes, then you have a problem. If a bad guy is going into a situation expecting armed resistance, people are going to get hurt. Your average street-level choirboy doesn't have that mentality.

Now, the problem with your average punk is that they are jumpy little hamsters, prone to reacting first, thinking later. The good news is that because of that very trait, they also have the attention span of me trying to read the latest iteration of the healthcare bill, and the situational awareness of a college student in Hooters. Watch the videos, and read the cases. Most of the time when a victim DOES put up a fight, it destroys the choirboy's OODA loop to the point of utter shock. When they do fight back, it's panicky and random. But even bad guys can get lucky...

However, at that point your method of carry is moot. You've already made the choice to deploy your weapon.

Are there exceptions? Sure. There always are. I don't want to be the lone guy with a gun if MS-13 comes busting through a door. Then again, I try to avoid areas where MS-13 comes busting through doors.

There's always a chance of anything happening. That's the joy of statistics.

I've had more interesting discussions, handed out more business cards, and gotten more students via open carrying than by any other method. I've never had a negative law enforcement experience or been asked to leave because of it. Like I said, I carry concealed most of the time, and I'm selective of where I open carry. But it's nothing to be afraid of.

ETA - In my time working corrections (mainly halfway facilities), I can count on one hand the number of truly bad folks I met in those few years...and only one gave me an honest case of the heebie-jeebies. I was right...his track record involved assaults on law enforcement, and he later escaped from a different facility, followed by a brutal attack on a cop resulting in him stealing the cop's pistol (but not killing the cop, mind you...when he was caught and asked why he didn't kill the cop, he replied that he didn't want to face a murder charge if he didn't have to). How do you know when you've got someone like that in front of you? You'll know. You're facing a predator at that point, and your only options are to play dead, or be the tougher predator.

The greater danger is being on the wrong end of a panicky idiot, not of a cold, calculated villain.

Know your environment, know what you're more likely to run into. There are members of this forum who may live in areas overrun by cold-blooded killers. It's the exception, not the rule.

-Mark
 
Last edited:
I don't and won't get a CHL. It is none of the laws business what I have. I live in an open carry state and when I carry, it is open. I travel quite a bit lately (about 60 miles one way) and always carry a handgun on my truck seat. I have never been hassled and people don't seem to be alarmed.
 
The Freedom Bike is a Kawasaki Vulcan 2000, the wife's version is the same color, but it's a 900.

The 2nd amendment is NOT about protecting ourselves from street thugs, but protecting us from the very thugs in uniform who would do away with your right to bear arms.

Darned glad the guys at Lexington/Concord didn't follow the advice being offered here.
 
The Freedom Bike is a Kawasaki Vulcan 2000, the wife's version is the same color, but it's a 900.

The 2nd amendment is NOT about protecting ourselves from street thugs, but protecting us from the very thugs in uniform who would do away with your right to bear arms.

Darned glad the guys at Lexington/Concord didn't follow the advice being offered here.

Mark's one of the few people who has walked the 2A walk, stared down the enemy, and lived to tell of it.

There is no greater 2A advocate.
 
i open carry more often than i conceal. not for any political or activist reasons, it's just more comfortable to me. that said, it hasn't been without it's problems. a fair amount of people in my state OC, and it's becoming mor and more common to see. many of them get harassed, but that's happening less and less, except in my case. i'm hispanic, ethnically, and it seems i get targeted more often than my friends do by LEO and private citizens for harassment. i've often wondered if i should stop open carrying, but as it's my right to do so, i refuse to be cowed.

as far as being licensed, i'd like it if it wasn't required, but if i didn't get a license to carry concealed, i'd have to walk everywhere, and i could never set foot in Philly. driving while armed is considered concealed, and Philly requires you be licensed for OC and CC. also, it would maek visiting other states difficult, as some don't allow OC.
 
The pros and cons, along with documented experiences, have been well covered on MANY forums. Stop beating this horse, its spirit left long ago.

Geez, youngda - The world of guns and related attitudes is a quickly changing landscape. What was a "norm" a couple of months ago may be totally changed by today. I don't want to chase down stale discussions - I would rather talk to live individuals (assuming they are willing to provide their input).

If we took your approach, we could just say that the 2nd amendment was discussed fully at the time it was originally approved and well understood by the population. Unfortunately, that landscape has been changed for us and without our discussion, the attitudes of the younger citizens could be corrupted in another direction.

On the other hand, if you can lead our OP to a very recent discussion that was fully covering his needs, that would certainly be a different situation.
 
why should i register with the state to ccw when i live in an open carry state?
I live in an open carry state... until I get in my car.

Then I either have an Ohio CHL or I disarm AND unload, INCLUDING MAGAZINES.

I doubt many carjackers will wait for me to unlock my gun and load my magazines.

I don't open carry, but have no problem with anyone who wants to lawfully do so.
 
If it was socially acceptable everywhere, I'd much rather open carry. Just a lot more practical and comfortable. I've OC'ed a few times and frankly just don't like the attention, whether positive or negative.

BTW I know of one instance where OC deterred a possible bank robbery. Older gentleman carrying a 1911 was chatting with a teller friend at the local branch. On a nice, warm spring day, in walks this guy wearing a ski mask. He spies said gentleman off to the side, wrings his hands and splits.
 
Last edited:
zignal zero said:
i'm LEO and i support OC. i wish we could get it back, in FL. what i do NOT support is detaining a person for whom you have no reasonable suspicion that they have committed, are committing, or are about to commit a crime. That's ILLEGAL. unfortunately, it happens ALOT with OC. i feel that after the first time you are detained, for doing nothing other than carrying openly, you should notify the Ofc's supervisor simply to ask them to better educate their subordinates AND you should start carrying a voice recorder because a civil suit needs to be pursued if the violations of your rights continue.

BRAVO! BRAVO! Standing ovation here! That's exactly what I did with my one encounter with police when the police acted illegally (even "evicting" me from a restaurant against the owner's wishes!). A couple emails to the chief of police and a couple open carry luncheons seemed to have fixed the police problems and I have never had an encounter with them again. Except I don't carry a voice recorder, but have considered it.

My open carry experiences/discussions have run about 80% positive, 20% negative - but the positive "progress" made far outweighs the negative responses.
 
Shawn Dodson said:
My feelings about open carry?

If you can carry concealed, by all means carry concealed. If you're forced to open carry by law, then beware of the unexpected. Your gun is not a piece of jewelry with magical powers to repel trouble. Open carry relinquishes the element of surprise to any adversary you may encounter.

http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atla...8-Open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-in-Kennesaw

I wonder how many times this happens and we don't know it simply because the bad guys walk away and there doesn't happen to be a carload of them in waiting when the cops drive by... we will never know how many crimes open carry does deter.

I have a friend who works in a bank that was robbed recently. She said, "John, there isn't a doubt in my mind that if you have been there, he would have come in, saw your gun, and turned around and walked right back out." She carries concealed. Her "element of surprise" wasn't worth much.

Of course, you won't see these instances in the mainstream media, either.

18849_1185449396279_1229598368_30424497_6028321_n.jpg
 
Last edited:
Of course it's worth it. I believe my life is worth protecting. If you live in a state which doesn't require an extra "permit" then great but in Minnesota we have to have a carry permit so we can exercise our God-given right to self-protection.
 
as do i, obviously.
asking for firsthand experience with the "public" as well as the "officials".
as a citizen and a former LEO, i know my take on open carry.
your mileage may vary.
and that's exactly what i want to know.
how various your mileage...
NC is an open carry state, but there is a provision in the gun law along the lines of "carrying to the terror of the people" IOW, if someone see's your gun and gets nervous, they will call the police who will cause you some consternation.

We had a recent experience with an aggressive dog near us, and I asked the responding cop about open carry, since I don't currently have a CCW permit. He reiterated what I'd read about the "terror of the people" and advised I get a CCW. Or a baseball bat.

I take the CCW class in two weeks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top