open carry: worth it?

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The only way to OC legally in Georgia is to get a GFL which entitles you to CC or OC. I sometimes OC because it's convenient, but mostly CC. Even at that, I really don't worry about being totally concealed. I've not had a problem when open carrying from either the police or the public.

The biggest problem I see with open carry is that if you're not careful about how you dress, the odds of being hassled by an LEO increase substantially. That should not be a factor, but it is reality.
 
Everytime this comes up, somebody has to say, "If you are OC'ing, you'll be the first one shot blahblah, blahblah."

Prove it. I'm sick of reading it. Prove it, or just go away.
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'Horror scene' as 4 Lakewood police officers shot, killed

It's reported that the bad guy fatally shot the four officers with a .38 revolver. His family reported that he seemed mentally disturbed in the weeks leading up to the attack.

i would assume the bad person would re-evaluate his intentions when he sees someone with a gun standing there.
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You're presuming the bad person is thinking rationally. He/she can be drunk, drugged, emotionally disturbed, mentally disturbed...
 
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OC

I"m a lucky guy, live in the almost free state of Arizona.
We have OC and CCW.
A local site here we promote OC with monthly dinners, lots of new folks show up carrying openenly for the first time, most have commented how they felt much better doing it the first time with like individuals, helped with the first time blues.

I get a kick out of all the stories about someone taking your weapon, yada yada yada.
Don't recall ever personally talking with anyone in regards this, and have on more than one occassion, heard of folks creating drama out of fear of someone carrying a gun.
And we have the usual LEO, who does not know the law, and after the meeting and discussion, most walk away with a understanding that its a right, not a privaledge to Open Carry,
Oh you always will have the one constable that will swear up and down, and creat all kinds of issues, but educating him/her will negate the next person OC'ing around town.
A right not used is a right lost.
Try it if its legal, know your laws, know your rights is the bigger issue.
Being afraid of confrontation with leos, or any other individuals thinking they have the right to not allow you to carry is wrong, stand up be counted.
Do it in groups till you feel more confortable, picnics for the oc movements,
Heres hoping you that feel its an inconvience to have the discussion with an uneducated leo, oughta just sell your weapon and pick up a book, might do you more good.
JMO>
 
Shawn Dodson said:
'Horror scene' as 4 Lakewood police officers shot, killed

It's reported that the bad guy fatally shot the four officers with a .38 revolver. His family reported that he seemed mentally disturbed in the weeks leading up to the attack.

You're presuming the bad person is thinking rationally. He/she can be drunk, drugged, emotionally disturbed, mentally disturbed...
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That was not random, and had nothing to do with OC. The Perp was specifically targetting cops, he wasn't there to rob the place, or the patrons he was there to shoot cops.

As far as the rest of the discussion on a "bad person" this equally applies to open carry, concealed carry or unarmed situations. However open carry has the advantage of eliminating the large majority of criminals who will not attack someone they know or suspect is armed. Good concealed carry doesn't confer this advantage.
 
Shawn Dobson said:
'Horror scene' as 4 Lakewood police officers shot, killed

It's reported that the bad guy fatally shot the four officers with a .38 revolver. His family reported that he seemed mentally disturbed in the weeks leading up to the attack.

Quote:
i would assume the bad person would re-evaluate his intentions when he sees someone with a gun standing there.
You're presuming the bad person is thinking rationally. He/she can be drunk, drugged, emotionally disturbed, mentally disturbed...
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1. Would the 4 Lakewood cops have been shot if they were not visibly armed?

Yes.

The defense rests.

2. If the bad person is drunk, drugged, emotionally disturbed, mentally disturbed is he going to shoot you anyway for those exact same reasons, whether or not you are visibly armed?

Yes.

The defense rests again.

You know, if the "element of surprise" is SOOOOO important, than here is my suggestion.... no cops should open carry, and we should randomly select only 1/2 of the cops to carry concealed every day. That way the cops can maintain their "element of surprise", thus preventing incidents like Lakewood, no? After all, according to your theory, the cops were shot because they were carrying guns, right?
 
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That was not random, and had nothing to do with OC.
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I beg your pardon, but the four officers were indeed carrying their weapons openly and their exposed weapons, their authority, their training and experience did not deter the shooter.

The Perp was specifically targetting cops, he wasn't there to rob the place, or the patrons he was there to shoot cops.
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Whatever the motivation, OC by four police officers, one a SWAT officer, did not deter the shooter and he shot them all dead before they could react effectively in time.
 
Would the 4 Lakewood cops have been shot if they were not visibly armed?

Yes.
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You're speculating, but it doesn't matter. They were open carrying and they were all surprised and shot and killed.

If the bad person is drunk, drugged, emotionally disturbed, mentally disturbed is he going to shoot you anyway for those exact same reasons, whether or not you are visibly armed?
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I don't know. You'll blend in with the rest of the crowd and won't stand out as an immediate threat. Are you clairvoyant? Can you predict an adversary's motivations? His mental state?
 
Gimme a break you're stretching so far it's ludicrous.
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I agree. Purposely creating the conditions (open carry) to allow a bad guy(s) to get inside your OODA loop, if he chooses, so you cannot react effectively in time is indeed ludicruous. He chooses the time, place and method of attack. You don't. Can you perform on demand? Probably not because you're expecting your gun to frighten the bad guy(s) away.
 
Shawn Dodson said:
I agree. Purposely creating the conditions (open carry) to allow a bad guy(s) to get inside your OODA loop, if he chooses, so you cannot react effectively in time is indeed ludicruous. He chooses the time, place and method of attack. You don't. Can you perform on demand? Probably not because you're expecting your gun to frighten the bad guy(s) away.
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Not true.

Your OODA loop is your own affair, if you're surprised that someone attacks you while you OC that's your problem, exactly the same as if you're surprised when you CC. No weapon is a magic talisman that will prevent an attack, be it overtly or covertly carried. The onus is on you to be aware of your surroundings and threats, OC eliminates the minor threats by it's very nature. What you describe is a failure in mindset, not a failure of OC.

Why would a career criminal, or even an amateur attack someone who is known to be carrying a gun (assuming he's rational) when there is a much larger pool of potential victims who are not known to be carrying? There is none, so that eliminates a huge section of criminals. Sure he could be hopped up, psychotic, or whatever but again it applies to everyone, not just those who OC (unless it's a suicide attempt, but suicide by cop is a much more likely scenario). Wolves don't prey on sheepdogs, they do prey on sheep.
 
The onus is on you to be aware of your surroundings and threats, OC eliminates the minor threats by it's very nature. What you describe is a failure in mindset, not a failure of OC.
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Ambush tactics dominate street crime, where ambiguity, deception and surprise are used to get inside your OODA loop so you cannot react effectively in time.

Why would a career criminal, or even an amateur attack someone who is known to be carrying a gun (assuming he's rational)
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If I were a cocky gang banger I might want to show off and simply steal your open carry gun because I believe I can get inside your OODA Loop without you realizing it until its too late and totally humiliate you. I'd unload it and throw it back at you. What are you gonna do about it? Shoot me? That's one example of a rational person who'd be willing to attack you, knowing full well that you couldn't do anything about it. And you probably won't call police either.
 
Shawn Dodson said:
Ambush tactics dominate street crime, where ambiguity, deception and surprise are used to get inside your OODA loop so you cannot react effectively in time.

If I were a cocky gang banger I might want to show off and simply steal your open carry gun because I believe I can get inside your OODA Loop without you realizing it until its too late and totally humiliate you. I'd unload it and throw it back at you. What are you gonna do about it? Shoot me? That's one example of a rational person who'd be willing to attack you, knowing full well that you couldn't do anything about it.
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Agreed, but you're OODA loop is internal to you it is STILL a failure of mindset to allow yourself to get into a situation that allows someone else to disrupt your OODA loop. Regardless of your current equipment or visibility thereof. If you're not alert and paying attention then it doesn't matter how you're armed (or not). You're toast. Mindset, skill set and tools in that order, you're discussing a failure in Mindset, by picking on not just the tool, but the method of carrying the tool

As far as criminal tactics go they CHOOSE to act, there is a victim selection process, no crime is random (it might seem random to the victim, but it's not to the criminal). So you have option #1 25 year old pretty white girl well dressed, nice shoes expensive shades, option #2 40 year old male in a business suit, or option #3 40 year old male, boots, jeans, jacket, and a big honking hand cannon on his hip, and a 1000 yard stare. Which one is most likely to be selected? I'd estimate that in that ambush less than 1% of the time (SWAG) the guy with the gun will be targeted, the 25 year old girl is low risk, looks like she has some cash, maybe a nice car, and has additional benefits, the 40 year old guy is low risk, looks like he has plenty cash, probably has a nice car, the guy with the hand cannon is high risk, might have cash, has a gun if you can take it and not die.

Now interestingly if the guy or girl are concealed carrying, the selection process is the same I'd estimate the attack stats are the same too (I don't know I doubt anyone knows). It's only after the ambush is triggered that it can become apparent that they are armed, but if the ambush disrupts the OODA loop of them then same as OC with disrupted OODA they're just as horked. Now if the OC guy was in the same situation but unarmed, then his likelihood of attack is much higher, because the known risk just went way down.

YMMV
 
Actually Shawn's analysis of the Lakewood incident is exactly the same as the Brady Campaign's. 4 cops get shot in a coffee shop, nobody else is attacked, only the cops, and Shawn says the problem was the guns. 4 cops get shot in a coffee shop and the Brady Campaign says the problem was the guns. No difference.

Both parties fail to acknowledge that the real problem is that the criminal specifically wanted to kill cops.
 
Is that any point to threads like this?

OC advocates arguments, in a nutshell:
- Who cares if my openly displayed weapon might make people nervous, it's my right they need to get over it.
- It automagically deters all crime in a thousand foot radius
- When the automagical crime shield fails, it's quicker to get your gun into action
- Say it loud! I'm armed and I'm proud!

OC advocates arguments, in a nutshell:
- Having a right doesn't necessarily mean that shoving it in peoples faces is the best way to gain wider acceptance
- Having hidden guns randomly sprinkled throughout the populace forces criminals to consider that anyone might be armed
- Element of surprise! As soon as I get it out of my pants!
- Do the words "low key" mean anything to you?

There, just saved everyone another 10 pages.
 
Agreed. Let's always CC everywhere legal, for the stated reasons. And OC in addition where appropriate... or, even "culturally beneficial". What's to argue about?

Les
 
About the only real argument going on is whether 4 Lakewood Police officers were shot because they were police officers or because they were openly carrying firearms. I think only the Brady Campaign and Shawn Dodson will argue that they were shot because of their guns.
 
junyo said:
Is that any point to threads like this?

OC advocates arguments, in a nutshell:
- Who cares if my openly displayed weapon might make people nervous, it's my right they need to get over it.
- It automagically deters all crime in a thousand foot radius
- When the automagical crime shield fails, it's quicker to get your gun into action
- Say it loud! I'm armed and I'm proud!
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You missed the most important one. Only OC reminds police, at every viewing, of who is the sovereign and who is the servant. Who is the user of the Second Amendment and against whom would it be used?

There is no argument against OC that can overcome the right of the People to display force to the government.
 
wow, for such an invalid, impotent, done-to-death thread it has surely prompted some discussion (varying from very relevent to asinine).
thanks for a good response, knockonit!
 
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